Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Rust around lugs and welding joints, possible crack, how big a problem is this?

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Rust around lugs and welding joints, possible crack, how big a problem is this?

Reply

Old 05-13-14, 05:13 PM
  #1  
Heatherbikes
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Rust around lugs and welding joints, possible crack, how big a problem is this?

I was just given an 84-ish celeste bianchi! Yay, been trying to get one for a long time that fits etc. The celeste paint is largely intact and gleaming, but strangely rust is only around the lugs and some of the welds. I have older frames with bits of rust from gashes, but nothing like this. On the rear brake hanger tube, there appears to be a crack at the welding, or at least a rusty ridge. The bike was free, I do not have hundreds for a restoration and repaint. Should I take it to a framebuilder for analysis? Should I look in the tubes? Any signs? This would be a bummer.
I also noticed that the rear hub had a crack in it while we were overhauling the bike, so promptly got another wheel. Would that be a sign that something happened? The bike has been through a few hands, found at a garage sale for $20 and passed along.
Should I ask the framebuilding section?
Heatherbikes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-14, 05:32 PM
  #2  
sailorbenjamin 
26 tpi nut.
 
sailorbenjamin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Rhode Island (an obscure suburb of Connecticut)
Posts: 5,703

Bikes: one of each

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Yeah, the framebuilders would be who I'd ask. Is the crack through the metal or just the rust bursting through the paint?
Of course, we'll want to see some pictures.
__________________
I have spoken.
sailorbenjamin is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-14, 05:32 PM
  #3  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 20,117

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 99 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1578 Post(s)
Some close-up pictures of the areas of concern would certainly help.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-14, 07:35 PM
  #4  
wrk101
Thrifty Bill
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mountains of Western NC
Posts: 21,783

Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more

Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 583 Post(s)
Neglected bikes often have issues. The free ones tend to have even more issues. I've had several free ones where I was only able to salvage a part or two. Others I was able to return to good ready to ride condition. The last free bike I got, the only thing salvageable was its nice Avocet Touring saddle. Strange to see such a nice saddle on a total disaster bike.

Without pics, no idea. But free in a red hot market, I would expect there to be some issues. The great news is that it is a Bianchi, and you are starting at free, so repair may well be cost effective. The more you can do yourself, the better.


With any bike, unless all the issues are obvious, I like to start with a COMPLETE teardown. At that point, I can make educated decisions about all of the components and parts, and determine whether rebuild is viable vs. just salvaging some parts.
wrk101 is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-14, 11:36 PM
  #5  
Heatherbikes
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
I will get photos and ask framebuilders forum. The rust is not terrible, didn't even notice at first. It is as if rust is coming through the paint at some of the lugs and joints. the possible crack may just be rust bursting through the paint. No total teardown as of yet as my husband wanted to test it out. Just a clean up and safety check. He took it for a long ride, no issues, went on and on about the ride quality, which makes it even harder. It came without a front wheel, and rear hub cracked, so good thing I have spare wheels. The parts are in excellent to good shape, some superficial rust on the NR campy derailleurs, bolts and bits.
Heatherbikes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-14, 05:42 AM
  #6  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 25,497

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1175 Post(s)
Any idea what model? I agree good pics are needed. You can always take a little sand paper to the area in question, remove little paint and look for a crack

Why didn't you get a new axle?

Depending on the model and quality of frame a complete repaint ma not really be cost effective. I would certainly see if it is indeed cracked. If the frame is solid build and ride it. Believe it not some people don't like Bianchis, they must be crazy.
__________________
Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '09 Motobecane SOLD, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape
Bianchigirll is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-14, 11:51 PM
  #7  
Heatherbikes
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Hello Bianchigirl, new axle of what? I believe it is an 84 campione d'italia. the serial number is 2D12283. Nuovo record derailleurs, ofmega crankset, miche hub(cracked), modolo america brakes and levers(beautiful), it had ambrosio rims which is odd since not as in catalogue, unknown stem and handlebars with a cute made in italy with map and leaves in a pattern like handlebars of the time had, rino seatpost. Bianchi's for the canadian market often make no sense at all. My husband has 2 bianchis, he took this one for a long ride, did not notice anything wrong and loved it. He is jealous because it is celeste and too small for him.
Bianchi special tubing. photos taken, just have to upload...
Heatherbikes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-14, 11:55 PM
  #8  
Bogester 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 342
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
I'm not the original poster but I do have a similar problem. My bike is 87 Bridgestone T700 and rust appears to be growing around the seat tube/bottom bracket junction. The rest of the bike is in fantastic shape. Looking into the bottom bracket shell it doesn't look bad, however, a little "tab" on the inner down tube and it appears that there is also rust under there. Any rust doctors out there care to make a prognosis? A few pics below
Drive side


left side


Rear


inside
Bogester is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-14, 05:14 AM
  #9  
miamijim
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 13,917
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
It's unlikely either of those are cracked. But with the amount of rust you should treat it by buzzing it off, inspecting the joints and then re-painting the area. The paints not going to match but that options better than rust!!
miamijim is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-14, 06:35 PM
  #10  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 20,117

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 99 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1578 Post(s)
Paint often gets thin or absent in corners and other tight places, and allows rust to form. miamijim is right; those are unlikely to be cracks, but you should clean off the rust and protect the steel. Once you've cleaned off the rust, any crack should be apparent.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-14, 07:29 PM
  #11  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 25,497

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1175 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Heatherbikes View Post
Hello Bianchigirl, new axle of what? I believe it is an 84 campione d'italia. the serial number is 2D12283. Nuovo record derailleurs, ofmega crankset, miche hub(cracked), modolo america brakes and levers(beautiful), it had ambrosio rims which is odd since not as in catalogue, unknown stem and handlebars with a cute made in italy with map and leaves in a pattern like handlebars of the time had, rino seatpost. Bianchi's for the canadian market often make no sense at all. My husband has 2 bianchis, he took this one for a long ride, did not notice anything wrong and loved it. He is jealous because it is celeste and too small for him.
Bianchi special tubing. photos taken, just have to upload...
I misread your post and thought just the axle was broken. With Bianchi Special tubing it may be an '85 or '86 and sounds like a Alloro or Nuovo Alloro. Ambrosio rims were pretty popular replacement rims as they were about half the cost of a Mavic MA-40 in the later '80s.
__________________
Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '09 Motobecane SOLD, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape
Bianchigirll is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-14, 09:27 AM
  #12  
cple4
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Silicon Valley Ca.
Posts: 6

Bikes: 1958 Raphael Geminiani. 1979 Bianchi CdI. 1986 Bianchi TSX. 1996 Bianchi Paris Roubaix. 2000 Bianchi Mega Pro. 1996 Dennis Miller Hetchins.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The only thing between the lug and the tube should be brass or possibly silver, on more expensive frames. Neither of these materials will rust, its possible you have a very poor joint.

I would clean the rust off and put a few drops penetrating oil on the joint on the inside and wait a few minutes. If the oil appears on the outside, you have a very bad joint. Bad joints do happen, mostly with automated brazing machines.

I had a three week fight with a LBS over a Bianchi TSX that had a crack through the brass at the down tube bottom bracket joint, I won.

Jim
cple4 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-14, 01:39 PM
  #13  
Heatherbikes
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
The rust on my bianchi is not as bad as the bridgestone. I looked down the seat tube and no rust, in fact it is painted inside. The frame does not appear to be chromed alas. Still waiting for help getting the photos up.
85 or 86? hmm.


Long term I would invest in repainting frame and some restoration if once I ride it and really like it(it's a bit big). The cost of a modern equivalent frame would be very expensive, and so far have not found a mint condition bicycle. The 2 'mint' condition bikes I bought unseen are in dire need of repaint...and it's pricy.

Last edited by Heatherbikes; 05-18-14 at 01:40 PM. Reason: syntax
Heatherbikes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-14, 01:27 AM
  #14  
Heatherbikes
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
photos on posting on frame building section, but here is the bike...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
L1080390.JPG (71.7 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg
L1080381.jpg (104.7 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg
L1080383.JPG (82.2 KB, 33 views)
Heatherbikes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-14, 04:35 AM
  #15  
Michael Angelo 
Senior Member
 
Michael Angelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hurricane Alley , Florida
Posts: 3,875

Bikes: Treks (USA), Schwinn Paramount, Schwinn letour,Raleigh Team Professional, Gazelle GoldLine Racing, 2 Super Mondias, Carlton Professional.

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Heatherbikes View Post
photos on posting on frame building section, but here is the bike...

Does not look like a crack to me, paint is thin in those areas allowing moisture in, causing a bit of surface rust. Should be able to clean that area with a bit of car wax and a tooth brush. Once clean, you can get a better idea of what's going on. BTW, your cages went out today.
Michael Angelo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-14, 01:15 PM
  #16  
Heatherbikes
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Thank you!
Heatherbikes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-14, 01:24 PM
  #17  
cycle_maven
Collector of Useless Info
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes, that just looks like thin spots in the paint. I would use a little vinegar and a toothbrush on the rusty spots, then find some nail polish that's approximately the same color, and dab a little on the worst areas. That bike looks too nice for a respray.
cycle_maven is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service