JWK

I've done a search on this forum and on the web and just can't seem to come up with any kind of time line for the Cannondale touring models. I want to look into using a vintage tourer as my alternate to my Disc Trucker, used for long day rides or maybe lightly packed for an over night. I live in a very hilly area (foothills of appalachia and catskills). Short but very steep hills to climb. I like my Surly for this but would like something a bit lighter with a lighter wheelset. I'm thinking of putting a mtb crankset on the surly and using a 48-36-24 for the lighter bike.

So maybe a vintage Cannondale would be good for this. Build up a lighter wheelset for 28 or 32 tires. The frame would be nice and stiff and light for climbing hills but still give me the nice long wheelbase for stability and downhill runs. Put on a light aluminum rear rack, try to find a light aluminum platform rack for the front to hold some kind of bag (I don't like handlebar bags) and I'm set for a nice long ride with a picnic and/or swim and call it good. At the most 20 lbs. and probably not more than 10 - 15 lbs. before I would switch over to the Trucker with panniers. That's the plan, anyway.

The trouble is I'm having a hard time finding info on the changes to the touring models over time. The early ones started with 27" wheels. Some had canti brakes, some had regular road brakes. I don't know when they switched to 700 wheels. I don't know when they changed the rear spacing, or even what it was in the 80s (maybe 126mm?). In short, I don't know what frames are best for my purpose or whether it will be cost effective. I have my own tools and do my own work. Truing stand, wheel dishing tool, tension meter, etc.

Good or bad idea? Will it turn into a money pit (as if any project doesn't -shhh, don't tell my wife)? Should I just buy a Windsor Tourist from BD, sell the wheelset and crank on ebay and start with a modern steel frame?

Anyone have any links to Cannondale touring models without me having to download every single vintage catalog ? Some of them have very little info, anyway. I've downloaded a handful and it's pretty irritating to get no detailed info after downloading a 14MB pdf.

Please help me work on my (n+1) formula. Thanks for any help or info.

bradtx

JWK, vintagecannondale.com has info in the way of catalogs to see what touring bikes were offered throughout the years.

I have two Cannondale touring bikes, a '95 and a '96. They weigh 26.5 lb. and 26 lb. respectively. They could possibly lose up to about two pounds with a lighter wheel set and 28 mm tires. I've used the '95 unloaded for distance rides and it was very enjoyable. The '96 is my fairly new to me beater bike and I haven't used it much to this point, but the frame sets are identical.

The frame geometry is more relaxed than a roadie or even a CX bike and the wheelbase is also longer than both of those. Frame data is available in the catalogs.

Brad

PS The early caliper braked STs, while a touring bike in their day, would be considered more akin to a modern sport tourer. The later ST, the T, the 3.0 T and the CAAD2 T are very similar though evolutionary. The 3.0 and CAAD2 are identical WRT the level top tube touring Cannondales. The last Cannondale touring bike had a sloping top tube and wishbone rear seat stays.

badger_biker 

JWK - I think you are on the right track for your intended use. I have both a 1986 and a 1990 ST400. The 1986 is pretty much stock with caliper brakes and as Brad mentioned seems more of a sport tourer and is quite light. My 1990 is far from original and has cantilevers and 7spd STI levers. It is probably my favorite bike to grab and ride for general riding and longer day rides. Both are nice and stiff but ride pretty smooth with the steel forks and ride much lighter and quicker than my steel touring bikes. I'm not impressed with the calipers on the Rigida rims on the '86 but maybe I just haven't found the right brake pads. My advice would be to get one with cantilevers.

awfulwaffle 

My 1990 ST400 has 27" wheels and 126mm rear spacing. Great bike though, smooth like @badger_biker said. Rear canti has enough pad adjustment to go 700c (obviously with a 126mm hub), but brake bosses are a tad too high to allow it on the front. Been thinking of picking up a set of BMX brake boss adapters (Promax or Elevn) to make the front work with a 700c conversion.

guzziee

Picked up this beater from a local flea this past weekend. I believe it's a 92, this one has 700c wheels and canti brakes, rides pretty nice.

rccardr 

My favorite is an '87 or '88 ST frame, converted to 700c, Tektro 559 caliper brakes and matching levers, down tube or bar end shifters. Nominally a 126 rear spacing but easy to slide a 130 hub in there without any need for frame mods. Takes 32's easily, lots of clearance, braze ons for racks & fenders and (on the 88) panniers on the fork. Finished weight without racks or fenders but with pedals and saddle is 21 pounds without trying to lighten it up at all. They take well to triples, like a 48/34/24 and nine or ten speed rear cassettes with DT shifters. Use a long cage Shimano RD and you can put up to a 34 in the back.

Built one like that a couple months ago, you can find it in the thread called Couple of Recent Cannondale Builds. Or go to my photobucket page, username rccardr and check out some of the ST builds in the folders.

trailmix

I have several early STs and they are my favorite bikes I have ever ridden. I still run mine with 27" wheels and 6 speed freewheels with no problems. I use them for commuting, touring, brevets and club rides. You may sell your surly if you buy an old ST.

shelbyfv

I have an ST caliper brake model that I easily converted to 700 wheels and 9 speed. I use bar end shifters and a Sugino triple. I was hoping for a little more tire clearance. Nominal 37s that measure 32 are fine but I'm not sure a knobby that size would work. I have a Technomic stem jacked up higher than looks good and still have more saddle to bar drop than I would expect with this type of bike. Lots of nice braze-ons. My wife has a 90's T with canti brakes and 8 speed, didn't need to change much on that one. They are both really nice for gravel and rail trails. I don't think you can go wrong with either type.

JWK

Very nice, Chuckk. I see you have the cantilever brakes. Much easier to convert to 700, no?

This is a bunch of great info and examples. I'm pretty optimistic about this option for me. From what I've been able to gather from the catalogs so far, I think the search will concentrate on the 90s bikes.

trailmix

Here are a few of my STs. The pictures are old and there have been some changes to a couple of the bikes since the photos were taken but they might give you an idea of the evolution of the series. From left to right: 85 ST500, 88 ST400, 90 ST400, 93 T700.

Not sure when they switched, but my 90 still has 126mm rear spacing and 27 inch wheels but the 93 is wider(130 or 135 can't remember) and came with 700c wheels.

bradtx

I'm not sure when the rear OLD changed to 135 mm, but my '95 is 135 mm.

Brad

JWK

The OLD changed to 135mm in '92 according to the catalog. I'm assuming Deore XT hubs mean 135mm, yes? Same year they switched over to the 7 speed cassettes on the R500 from the 6 speed freewheel. I don't think they ever had a tourer with 130mm. Downloading all the catalogs from the 80s through the 90s is a long process for me. I still haven't figured out when they went from road brakes to cantilever.

trailmix

My 89 has sidepulls, 1990 has cantilever.

trailmix

Want to see something crazy? I started working over the 88 ST400 that I just picked up and I noticed something a bit off. Check out the chainstays, they are welded on the wrong side of the frame. I know the pictures are not that great but take a look at where the serial number is; on top of the right stay-it is supposed to be on the bottom of the left stay. I guess they are mirror images of each other and the welder just grabbed the wrong one. Never seen that before.

JWK

Ah, well there it is then. Does the cantilever have any advantage over the sidepull aside from tire width ability? How wide of a tire can your '89 take?

trailmix

The cantis will give you more stopping power .
Depending on brand, 1 1/4-1 3/8. With fenders 1 1/8-1 1/4 again depending on brand and rim width. My 93 has 700x37 with room to spare without fenders

awfulwaffle 

Not trying to jack the thread, but anyone with a 700c conversion on their ST (preferrably ST400) want to provide a shot of the front brake? Specifically, how far down the pads are? Seems relevant since the OP is planning on a conversion (and since I am too)

bradtx

I'm inclined to agree, but I just don't know for sure. rccardr has rejuvenated many of these ST frames and may know.

I think an argument can be made for using dual pivot calipers.

Brad

The Golden Boy 

I wouldn't hesitate. I've always heard "cantilevers have more stopping power," but since getting a set of dual pivots- it leaves me realizing that "stopping power" doesn't belong to cantis.

I still like cantis in a "Steve McQueen" sort of way- there's a brutish elegance to them.

shelbyfv

For the STxxx 27 to 700 conversion you need "long reach" AKA "standard reach" calipers as opposed to the "short reach" that come on most bikes now. I think they are generally described as 57mm. There are also some really long ones but you don't need those. Shimano and Tektro both have them.

rccardr 

Tektro 559's or their current equivalent are the hot poop.