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198x Pinarello Montello

Old 07-06-14, 07:34 PM
  #26  
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Finally finished assembly. Doesn't look much different just cleaner. I date code checked the parts and found a range from 89 to 91. Maybe that is the time frame the parts were changed or the bike was built in 91, don't know.

[IMG]P1020128 by superissimo_83, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old 07-07-14, 09:42 AM
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Looking good! Hopefully you'll be able to get in a good length ride soon if you haven't already.

Any chance we can see some more pics of the paint in the sun?
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Old 07-07-14, 09:48 AM
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@Sir_Name - all kinds of pics here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/112094...7644887326301/
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Old 07-07-14, 09:54 AM
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Exposure varies with lighting. I confess, it is a real challenge as the appearance changes with the lighting. In the above photos, it is in the morning sun. the first one you mentioned is in the shade of the morning sun.
Angle makes a difference too.
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Old 07-07-14, 09:55 AM
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OK the complete bike in the sun:
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Old 07-07-14, 07:10 PM
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Nice work, that cleaned up beautifully and with character. Thanks for the link. Mind sharing your process/products used? Frame/fork paint/chrome especially. I'm close to final clean/polish/wax on the frameset I'm building up and am interested in any and all intimation. My paint is in similar condition in places and it looks like you achieved the results I'm looking to. Best, Bob.
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Old 07-08-14, 02:18 PM
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@Sir_Name - I often use just a dry rag for parts after I disassemble. The brakes calipers are a good example. The chain, block and rings usually get a degreaser treatment to get most of the gunk off. I have several including Purple. Washes off with water. Any parts that don't look like they are anodized are hit with Mothers polish. Around spokes on flanges, I use a toothbrush. This is really time consuming and challenging. I happen to have a tool to remove the cassette so that was the way I cleaned the block and the hub. The RD and FD cleaning process included as much disassembly as possible and then dry rag or degreaser for tough spots with encouragement from Q-tips.

I hate to say it but I used 0000 steel wool on the chrome with very little pressure. The paint was hit in a couple of spots with white rubbing compound, a polishing compound with no impact so I left it and waxed with Automotive Turtle wax that happened to be available. There is some over spray white paint specs on the paint and parts. I was able to clean the parts but the one or two specs pulled from the paint were really stuck. I am confused about the paint. It looks like a detereriorated clear coat that is breaking down but I dont' know if it is that or something else so I am leaving it for now. You can see this in the pics on the link where the decals were on the TT. I also used the steel wool on the spokes to clean off the stuck on stuff. They are SS spokes so no harm done and they look much better without globs of runs of white paint!

All bearing surfaces were wiped with a paper towel then a dry rag until clean. In some cases I may use (hush hush) gas! It is a great degreaser and leaves a nice clean surface! All bearing surfaces were treated with Phil's grease. In this case the only items not touched were the hubs and the pedals. Just didn't get around to it yet.

The cables are SS and were in good enough condition to reuse. It is a pain to thread them into new housing but that is what I did more than once. I am not very good at determining the right length. Three were replaced.

The brake pads have not been replaced either. The bar tape is Cinelli which I happen to have in a bin. It is the cork version which has little yellow flecks in the tape. Given the "patina" of the saddle, they go well together. Neither are white/white.

I think it is interesting that all the decals have come off leaving a "ghost" image of the decal. This worked well for the text but not for the single decals like on the top tube. It is what it is.

Is it perfectly clean and shinny? No, but that would be too much of a contrast with the paint of the frame. It looks used and still classy. I am impressed with this bike to the point that if I canít hang onto it, I may sell something else to keep it. I made a commitment to my wife to flip it and it is currently listed on CL for a ridiculous price! So for example, I may sell a couple of long guns to make up for the expected difference. The ratio of guns to bikes is just wrong anyway. Thanks Dad, RIP. You can tell my weakness because I flipped the levers. I like my front brake to be controlled with my right hand. Hey, I am an old guy and thats the way it was and is for all my bikes!

Not having been exposed to Dura Ace parts before, this was a very interesting experience. I learned a lot about the design and construciton along with performance. This bike is incredable to ride and shift. Just touch the lever and the gear is there. Impressive.

Just finished reading the weight weanie thread. This bike weighs in at around 22 lbs. I was thinking it would be somewhat less with SLX. My Colnago weighs 22 lbs 13 oz with a pump, rear light, computer and spare tubular! They are both the same size with the Colnago built with SL. Both were weighed with Flite Titanium saddles.

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Old 07-09-14, 07:06 AM
  #33  
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After digging deeper into the whole Dura Ace thing, I am increasingly convinced that if these parts are original to the frame, it is a 1991 model. The reason is that the newest date code is from 1991 and the others are from 1990. The rear hub is a 7403 with Hyperglide which was introduced in 1990 and many of the 7402 parts are date coded in that year as well.
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Old 07-09-14, 07:30 AM
  #34  
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here's mine.The fork has since been changed to original Pinarello and mine is all Shimano 600.I like no decals and rough paint.
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Old 07-09-14, 08:11 AM
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Trek330, thanks for the pic. Yours is the second one I have seen with the Spumoni in bright colors. Makes me think mine has a film over it.
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Old 07-09-14, 11:11 AM
  #36  
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Thanks for the in-depth writeup, SJX426. I've been using a similar process on all of the components as they come in. My freewheel will be getting the spa treatment soon. By far the biggest 'learning experience' was removing the dried up glue from the (tubular) rims for the first time. Biggest lesson there was to let the chemicals (landed on paint thinner) do most of the work. Nice & easy and fairly quick. I spent a good amount of time with some Mothers on the hubs followed by a light coating of Renaissance wax. We'll see how long they stay shiny for...

Addressing the frame/fork will be my last hurdle. I've been reading plenty and think that I have decided to go with warm soapy water to start, followed by a very light polish and wax. I may try using a clay bar after the rinse as well. After all of this build up in my mind on cleaning the frame and bringing the paint back to life I've decided that simple is better. At least to start.

The 'C's on my fork crown (chromed) had bits of surface rust that I was able to remove with aluminum foil and a coke/lemon juice mix (works surprisingly well). Unfortunately there are a few bits of surface rust on the frame where the paint has been worn through (plus at one of the cable guides on the TT, darn sweat). This framest was raced hard in its original life (including at/finishing Paris-Roubaix, I believe! ). I want to keep the patina as it is while arresting the spots surface rust w/o removing paint. I figure that sealing it in with wax is a good start as I experiment with Barkeeper's Friend (OA) or Naval Jelly on other framesets. My girlfriend's Schwinn is a prime candidate (of course I'm doing it to help her out too...).

Interesting that the DA is original along with the Campy headset (unless that's a replacement - same time as the fork perhaps if that too is a replacement?). How are you liking the DA gear? I have 10sp on my newer bike and love it with the exception of the amount of lever throw for gear changes (STI). Once the levers get to the point of a change it's very quick. Getting there takes longer than I'd like, though.

Hopefully you are able to make arrangements to keep the Pin, it looks like a great bike. If my situation was different I might help you unload one or two long guns (pun intended).

I just finished the weight weenie thread as well (wasn't there another recently?). I was tinkering last night and did a dry-fit built up. My wheels are out being built so I swapped over the wheelset from my C'dale (23mm wide, fairly deep V, heavy hard case tires). Best I can guess the full build with the right wheels will come in around 22#. ~59cm SL tubing and full NR/SR, no special 'tricks' except the hollow BB spindle which may be replaced at a later date with a solid one for piece of mind.

Thanks again, enjoy!

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Old 07-09-14, 01:51 PM
  #37  
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AHH you didn't specifically mention glue on rims! I use a brass wire wheel (Dremel) to get most of the globs off then Acetone. Usually it ends up pretty clean if it is hard and orange!

My Colnago had rust on the "C's" and disappeared when I soaked the whole fork in OA for 24 hours. Did the same for the head tube that would fit in a large bucket. I have chrome lugs. The OA had 0 impact to the paint on the Colnago so I was pleased. The decals stayed intact too. I was much greener in experience to know better back then but if you don't take risks, you won't always find the limits.

The DA shifts incredable. I love Campy but just a flick of the lever and it is already in gear. Someday I hope to have more recent indexed Campy drivetrain.

Thanks for the sentiment! I would really be happy if someone would buy my Masi frame and fork.

My Daughter is here from Seattle for a week. I put her over the top tube and guess what, it fit in an old school way. The saddle needs to be dropped and a shorter stem but it could work very well for her. My price on CL is way out of line and I haven't got a tickle on it yet. In two weeks I may drop it 10%.
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Old 07-09-14, 06:26 PM
  #38  
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Ha, well I attacked the glue months ago so it was a non-issue above. A decent space to set up a workshop with a buffing wheel (and vice) is one of my requirements for the next place I chose to live. A wire wheel would have certainly helped with the rims. Buffing wheel for all of the chrome. I had tried using a brass wire brush on the glue at first and quickly determined that job was better left to an electric motor...

It's very interesting to hear that the OA bath didn't affect the paint or transfers at all on yours, the head tube paint and badge look great in the avatar and other pics! Now I'm tempted to revisit that idea for my frame - still want to run an experiment on something else first. Did you use a particularly low concentration or just mix a rough ratio and go for it? I'm guessing the latter. (I think you mentioned something similar for a kiddie pool setup in another thread, IIRC). The other idea I'm toying with is to masking off the areas surrounding the rust and mixing a relatively low concentration OA solution using bar keeper's friend and apply, perhaps using some inert filler mtl. to produce a paste-like consistency. That will likely be an iterative process of incrementally increasing the concentration.

I really like Shimano components, but don't have any from that era - glad to hear it works so well. My next plan for a build (unless a deal finds me) will be a C&V bike that can handle light offoad/x-country/fire road use - large tires, canti's, triple, etc. I have a Pro Tour 15 frameset that was setup for just such a thing, but wound up bending the stays as a result of a questionable roadside repair (hindsight...) and bad luck. I'm hoping I can find a good local frame builder (or maybe someone here) to replace the DS chainstay and set the alignment. Anyways - I have a set of Shimano Deerhead derailleurs that will be use for that build. I might try to source a complete group. Newer indexed Campy is on my list as well...

I'm going to avoid the temptation to ask what size the Masi is...or am I?

Last edited by Sir_Name; 07-09-14 at 06:29 PM. Reason: (BTW: Apologies for derailling your thread; beautiful bike and nice pictures!)
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Old 07-09-14, 09:21 PM
  #39  
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@wrk101 has a number of threads on OA use. I followed the instructions. The older I get the more I read the instructions first. When still in grade school, I built AMT models and never read the instructions. Liked figuring it out and after a couple they were pretty much all the same. I believe it is .02% solution. Some actually keep a rag soaked in the OA solution for small areas or if a kiddie pool isn't available. I have not found one for my frame size. I took the Trek frame, laid in on the garage floor and drew straight lines around it with a margin of 2" or so. Bought a length of 2x8 and cut the sides. Used hinges to join the sides and to be able to minimize disassembly by folding some up. Then used plastic sheeting to make a pool. For the center of the main diamond, I put an upside down plastic oil pan to raise the plastic and reduce the amount of solution to bury the frame. There is enough room to include the fork if you don't do it separately in a wall paper hanger trough.

I too would be interested in a gravel grinder type of bike. It is lower on my priority list with the RockHopper convertible system I have. I may look for dirt drop bars for it at some point too. I saw two bikes on the way home with them. Can't help with frame repair.

Masi is 60 cm CTC. https://www.flickr.com/photos/112094...7639838034804/
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Old 07-10-14, 02:32 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by SJX426 View Post
Finally finished assembly. Doesn't look much different just cleaner. I date code checked the parts and found a range from 89 to 91. Maybe that is the time frame the parts were changed or the bike was built in 91, don't know.

[IMG]P1020128 by superissimo_83, on Flickr[/IMG]
I also have a sweet spot for Montello.
Yours looked much much better cleaned up. Frames painted in that tri color style are hard color match and make stand out from the crowd. Here is my take, keep the color scheme stricter than ever. And ad some flair of ambition, an idea.

First: all vintage bikes in color looks best with tires with gum walls. Black brake hoods usually looks worse than gum or white on vintage bikes.

The front is blue, why not blue handlebar tape.
The brake cable housing looks very bright, I prefer when it picks up a color or blends in. Grey (the frames mid color) might be better.
Painted water bottle holders would be a nice touch. One red and one grey.

The two things I think are out of place is the saddle and the seatpost, looks to modern to me
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Old 07-10-14, 09:20 PM
  #41  
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@1987 - Thanks for your input! I do appreciate it. I simply returned the bike to the same color set it was received with. Since this bike is from 1991 era, it would be good to take into consideration what was availble and popular in that time frame. I really don't know when gum side walls fell out of favor. Since these tires are 2008 vintage, they are a bit more modern but at the same time they are of the quality befitting the bikes performance level. I do have some Tubulars that would go well with them but they have Campagnolo hubs, a bit problematic.

Blue on blue works too. I didn't have any in the parts bin and a white saddle with white tape is often the norm. The white pedals make up another triangle! I agree with the white housing, it is the whitest white on the bike. Grey? Won't happen. Hoods are stock. Don't have gum ones and for this pic, with the dark background, they almost disappear.

Colored water bottle cages are fine if they are in the field of the color or a good contrast. Haven't really thought about it but they do compliment the chrome of the frame and the spokes. Don't think I would change that.

The saddle and post actually predate the frame and are period correct. The saddle was introduced in the late 80's and the post in the 80's. I am learning about this post from those who admire it on this forum. I think it might be a sleeper. Collect the good ones. Both of my Pinarellos have them.

Don't mean to be argumentative but this bike is more classic than vintage.
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Old 07-11-14, 05:44 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by SJX426 View Post
@1987 - Thanks for your input! I do appreciate it. I simply returned the bike to the same color set it was received with. Since this bike is from 1991 era, it would be good to take into consideration what was availble and popular in that time frame. I really don't know when gum side walls fell out of favor. Since these tires are 2008 vintage, they are a bit more modern but at the same time they are of the quality befitting the bikes performance level. I do have some Tubulars that would go well with them but they have Campagnolo hubs, a bit problematic.

Blue on blue works too. I didn't have any in the parts bin and a white saddle with white tape is often the norm. The white pedals make up another triangle! I agree with the white housing, it is the whitest white on the bike. Grey? Won't happen. Hoods are stock. Don't have gum ones and for this pic, with the dark background, they almost disappear.

Colored water bottle cages are fine if they are in the field of the color or a good contrast. Haven't really thought about it but they do compliment the chrome of the frame and the spokes. Don't think I would change that.

The saddle and post actually predate the frame and are period correct. The saddle was introduced in the late 80's and the post in the 80's. I am learning about this post from those who admire it on this forum. I think it might be a sleeper. Collect the good ones. Both of my Pinarellos have them.

Don't mean to be argumentative but this bike is more classic than vintage.
Your arguments are fine. I am ok as long as someone isn't blunt.

I still think you need to keep it stricter. The tri color frame is a bit chaotic from start. I would prefer some personal toutch. Yes grey housing is probably to old school for this frame.
My next option is blue theme. Blue housing and blue tape, but white hoods that might work.

Or just enjoy
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Old 07-11-14, 08:51 AM
  #43  
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I saw the photos of the more garish frames and now I'm wondering if this frame was misted with grey paint to tone down the colour scheme? Maybe it was a custom order.

I vote for neutral tones or white for the seat and tape. Accessory colours will only draw the eye away is my 2 cents.
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Old 07-11-14, 10:07 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by SJX426 View Post
Crap. That would fit. I'm holding off for the time being. Thanks for the additional info on OA - adding wrk101 to my search terms has brought up a whole new set of helpful threads. I may just go for it. I've got a Windsor in similar condition for practice (also has water transfers rather than decals). I'm sure it'll be fine.

I wish my Rockhopper was a bit bigger, though the small size makes it easy to toss around in the woods.

---
Agreed that the white is good (not that it matters).

Thanks again.
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Old 07-11-14, 10:19 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by holden west View Post
I vote for neutral tones or white for the seat and tape. Accessory colours will only draw the eye away is my 2 cents.
Exactly, that's why another color shouldn't be introduced. It would be interesting so see how it looks without white.
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