The switch on my old headlight has three settings. B-D-O
06-04-14, 04:59 AM
#1
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The switch on my old headlight has three settings. B-D-O
It's an ancient Lucas "king of the road" headlight, comically big and ugly. It has a holder inside for some kind of a rechargeable battery, one that I'm pretty sure is no longer made. The battery holder is not in great shape anyway, contacts are rusty, springs are weak, so there's not much point in worrying about that.
I'm wondering if anyone can explain the electronics to me, or suggest a clever way to use the switch.
I've mounted an LED in place of the light bulb and I've been running it off an even more ancient Sturmey Archer Mk II Dynohub (the 12 volt version, ca. 1938). The way I have it set up, at the moment, the switch has two positions, on and off. But the switch actually three settings. I understand the positions stand for
B=Battery
D=Dynamo
O=Off
and as far as I can tell, the switch works; or it would, if it were wired up correctly.
I presume the switch controls only the light; that is, the light is either (B) running on battery power, or (D) running on dynamo power, or (O) off. But when does the battery charge?
I'm pretty sure I have seen a wiring diagram for how this switch should be set up. But I can't find it on the internet now. Does anyone have the link?
I'm wondering if anyone can explain the electronics to me, or suggest a clever way to use the switch.
I've mounted an LED in place of the light bulb and I've been running it off an even more ancient Sturmey Archer Mk II Dynohub (the 12 volt version, ca. 1938). The way I have it set up, at the moment, the switch has two positions, on and off. But the switch actually three settings. I understand the positions stand for
B=Battery
D=Dynamo
O=Off
and as far as I can tell, the switch works; or it would, if it were wired up correctly.
I presume the switch controls only the light; that is, the light is either (B) running on battery power, or (D) running on dynamo power, or (O) off. But when does the battery charge?
I'm pretty sure I have seen a wiring diagram for how this switch should be set up. But I can't find it on the internet now. Does anyone have the link?
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06-04-14, 06:41 AM
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If the battery and the light were both 12v, it would seem that if you wired it in series, it would work just like your car. If both are 6v, wire it parallel. If neither you would need to add a voltage regulator.
Edit: Reread your post. Sounds like if you wired it parallel,you could put the switch between the dynamo and the light. Then the battery charges all the time.
Edit: Reread your post. Sounds like if you wired it parallel,you could put the switch between the dynamo and the light. Then the battery charges all the time.
Last edited by seedsbelize; 06-04-14 at 06:51 AM.
06-04-14, 07:05 AM
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06-04-14, 07:20 AM
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If it were a vote, I would vote with rhm. 
Mostly because there is a battery mount. The other options are too modern!
Mostly because there is a battery mount. The other options are too modern!
06-04-14, 07:27 AM
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06-04-14, 07:30 AM
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Rudi, I'm no electrician, but maybe find a small 12 volt lead acid rechargeable standby battery, wire it directly to the SA dynamo, and then wire the battery into the switch. This way the battery would always be charging and when you turn on the switch, the light illuminates whether you are at a stop or on the roll.
Now I could be all wrong on this and I'm certainly hoping our engineers come along and correct me.
Now I could be all wrong on this and I'm certainly hoping our engineers come along and correct me.
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06-04-14, 07:32 AM
#8
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Rudi, I'm no electrician, but maybe find a small 12 volt lead acid rechargeable standby battery, wire it directly to the SA dynamo, and then wire the battery into the switch. This way the battery would always be charging and when you turn on the switch, the light illuminates whether you are at a stop or on the roll.
Now I could be all wrong on this and I'm certainly hoping our engineers come along and correct me.
Now I could be all wrong on this and I'm certainly hoping our engineers come along and correct me.
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06-04-14, 09:17 AM
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What??? Only 2 wheels?
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He! I was thinking of The Lucas Switch - Off, Flicker, Dim.
When asked why the switches on his dashboard weren't labeled the Jaguar owner replied that it didn't matter, they didn't do anything anyway.
I was thinking of The Lucas Switch - Off, Flicker, Dim.When asked why the switches on his dashboard weren't labeled the Jaguar owner replied that it didn't matter, they didn't do anything anyway.
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06-04-14, 09:47 AM
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The "dynamo" is actually an alternator that produces AC, so you'd need a rectifier to charge a battery (unless the dynamo has one incorporated).
06-04-14, 10:47 AM
#11
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Yeah, good point. Believe it or not, they did not bother with a rectifier on the 1938 dynohub.
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06-04-14, 04:28 PM
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Lucas Electrics: Back in the day we called Lucas:' Prince of Darkness', as I recall happening often to my 61 Morgan. Lucas did however have cool names for their lighting systems!
06-04-14, 04:44 PM
#13
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06-04-14, 07:14 PM
#14
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Yeah, well, the Lucas stuff I've seen wasn't as bad as your acronym....
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06-04-14, 07:46 PM
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What??? Only 2 wheels?
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"A gentleman never drives after dark." - Joseph Lucas.
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06-04-14, 08:01 PM
#16
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
If it was a 6V hub you could run a modern NiMH battery pack with built in thermal / overload protection...
NiMH Battery Pack: 6V 10Ah (Flat, Trail-Tech Female plug ) for Bike light + 4.8-10.8V Smart Charger
NiMH Battery Pack: 6V 10Ah (Flat, Trail-Tech Female plug ) for Bike light + 4.8-10.8V Smart Charger
06-04-14, 09:51 PM
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The wiring is simple but you need to assist me in this Rudi.
What I need to know is how the switch is arranged in the lamp. Its got three positions, in electrical parlence this is 'triple throw'. The real question is how many poles does it have?
Now you may not be able to answer that, is there any chance you can remove the switch and take a photo of it? Many switches of this sort are actually fairly simple and their guts are easy to make out.
One thing is sure you don't want the battery charging all the time. If you have it set up that way you will eventually fry the battery from over-charging since you don't have a regulator (and I don't think you need one, FWIW). IOW we want the light to either run off of the battery, or run off of the alternator, which is also charging the battery at the same time. It should be an easy hookup.
What I need to know is how the switch is arranged in the lamp. Its got three positions, in electrical parlence this is 'triple throw'. The real question is how many poles does it have?
Now you may not be able to answer that, is there any chance you can remove the switch and take a photo of it? Many switches of this sort are actually fairly simple and their guts are easy to make out.
One thing is sure you don't want the battery charging all the time. If you have it set up that way you will eventually fry the battery from over-charging since you don't have a regulator (and I don't think you need one, FWIW). IOW we want the light to either run off of the battery, or run off of the alternator, which is also charging the battery at the same time. It should be an easy hookup.
06-05-14, 09:03 PM
#18
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No need for a rectifier if only powering the lightbulb. A rectifier would be needed to charge the battery, however. I'm pretty sure some modern generator hubs don't have rectifier circuitry, either.
06-06-14, 02:23 AM
#19
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Last edited by Big Block; 06-06-14 at 02:39 AM.
06-06-14, 10:37 AM
#21
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06-06-14, 11:44 AM
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So what the switch is doing is going from Battery mode to Dyno mode or Off. B-D-O
I think you will need a different switch to allow the dyno to charge the batteries.
I think you will need a different switch to allow the dyno to charge the batteries.
06-06-14, 01:12 PM
#23
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I'm going away for the weekend, but next week I'll give you photos of the switch from the inside. It's in good shape, and it's cool, so I'm not going to replace it. If I can't use it to its full potential, I'll just use it as an on-off switch.
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06-06-14, 03:38 PM
#24
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This one is from the Brown Bros 1952 catalogue
the one I linked to earlier was from the early 1930s, and this one has lost the side decoration
Rudi, I have sent you a Lucas brochure. It lists separate globes for the (1) battery headlamp or (2) the dynamo headlamp
Also the 305R battery referred to above for the 304 model is listed as a 'flat standby type for dynamo headlamps, whereas the 69R is the large Twin-cell for front and tail lamps
so it could be
for battery only models: Bright Dim, Off
for dynamo models: Battery, Dynamo, Off and the battery is a backup and is non-rechargeable
the one I linked to earlier was from the early 1930s, and this one has lost the side decoration
Rudi, I have sent you a Lucas brochure. It lists separate globes for the (1) battery headlamp or (2) the dynamo headlamp
Also the 305R battery referred to above for the 304 model is listed as a 'flat standby type for dynamo headlamps, whereas the 69R is the large Twin-cell for front and tail lamps
so it could be
for battery only models: Bright Dim, Off
for dynamo models: Battery, Dynamo, Off and the battery is a backup and is non-rechargeable
Last edited by Big Block; 06-06-14 at 09:22 PM.
06-07-14, 05:09 AM
#25
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If
All else fails you could simply use a meter to see what poles are connected for each switch position.having that info you could wire your new setup to do whatever you want it to be.
All else fails you could simply use a meter to see what poles are connected for each switch position.having that info you could wire your new setup to do whatever you want it to be.
