1983/84 Gios Professional Decals. Clearcoat of not?
06-08-14, 03:19 PM
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1983/84 Gios Professional Decals. Clearcoat of not?
I have seen pics of the 1983 and 1984 Gios "Professional" frames. It seems that there is conflicting evidence regarding the decals. Some seem to have a very yellowed (so maybe original?) clear coat. Other show signs of wear that look very much like there was no clear coat.
Any expert views on this?
I recently fixed up a 1983 frame. The two main decals were covered in a deeply yellowed clear coat. But the small auxiliary decals (on the fork and top tube) have no clear coat. The main decals were very bright under the clear coat, but I could not remove the clear coat without trashing the decals.
So I have new main decals on there. Not yet clear coated.
Any expert views on this?
I recently fixed up a 1983 frame. The two main decals were covered in a deeply yellowed clear coat. But the small auxiliary decals (on the fork and top tube) have no clear coat. The main decals were very bright under the clear coat, but I could not remove the clear coat without trashing the decals.
So I have new main decals on there. Not yet clear coated.
06-08-14, 05:05 PM
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I have seen pics of the 1983 and 1984 Gios "Professional" frames. It seems that there is conflicting evidence regarding the decals. Some seem to have a very yellowed (so maybe original?) clear coat. Other show signs of wear that look very much like there was no clear coat.
Any expert views on this?
I recently fixed up a 1983 frame. The two main decals were covered in a deeply yellowed clear coat. But the small auxiliary decals (on the fork and top tube) have no clear coat. The main decals were very bright under the clear coat, but I could not remove the clear coat without trashing the decals.
So I have new main decals on there. Not yet clear coated.
Any expert views on this?
I recently fixed up a 1983 frame. The two main decals were covered in a deeply yellowed clear coat. But the small auxiliary decals (on the fork and top tube) have no clear coat. The main decals were very bright under the clear coat, but I could not remove the clear coat without trashing the decals.
So I have new main decals on there. Not yet clear coated.
As the new ones are most likely reproductions I would consult with the supplier assuming you purchased them from a printer such as Cyclomondo or velocals. The printing types vary a bit and there is no one size fits all as you are printing on some type of ink or dye transfer on vinyl. In coated vinyl graphics need a bit more care but I would hesitate from spraying the whole frame in any case.
06-08-14, 05:13 PM
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>>> I think you are calling self adhesive stickers decals.
Yes. I lack precision in web forum terminology. That plus elevator farts are my main shortfalls.
Thanks for the feedback.
I am still very much interested in any expert opinion regarding the large "Gios Torino" vinyl stickers used in 83' and 84'.
I can not determine if the originals were varnished (or otherwise clear coated), or not. The evidence is ambiguous with some appearing very much varnished (and deeply yellowed with age), while others seem not at all varnished - so bright white with some evident ink wear on the edges of the sticker.
Thanks for any views on this burning question. Love the bike with my old C-rec era parts on there.
Yes. I lack precision in web forum terminology. That plus elevator farts are my main shortfalls.
Thanks for the feedback.
I am still very much interested in any expert opinion regarding the large "Gios Torino" vinyl stickers used in 83' and 84'.
I can not determine if the originals were varnished (or otherwise clear coated), or not. The evidence is ambiguous with some appearing very much varnished (and deeply yellowed with age), while others seem not at all varnished - so bright white with some evident ink wear on the edges of the sticker.
Thanks for any views on this burning question. Love the bike with my old C-rec era parts on there.
06-08-14, 05:28 PM
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To clarify:
The stickers in the pic are new replacements and currently not coated or varnished.
The originals were also vinyl stickers, but had a very yellowed coating (or "varnish") over them.
So I am asking if anyone knows if the originals were likely delivered varnished, or later varnished? I ask this because much photo evidence suggests that many originals had no coating over the vinyl stickers - they were not in any way yellowed and there was edge wear on the ink on the stickers.
But I have also seen pics in which there was a similar deep yellowing to the stickers - suggesting a varnish or other coating.
Many Thanks for any response on this question.
The stickers in the pic are new replacements and currently not coated or varnished.
The originals were also vinyl stickers, but had a very yellowed coating (or "varnish") over them.
So I am asking if anyone knows if the originals were likely delivered varnished, or later varnished? I ask this because much photo evidence suggests that many originals had no coating over the vinyl stickers - they were not in any way yellowed and there was edge wear on the ink on the stickers.
But I have also seen pics in which there was a similar deep yellowing to the stickers - suggesting a varnish or other coating.
Many Thanks for any response on this question.
06-09-14, 05:42 AM
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Here's the official website for Gios made in Italy:
GIOS Professional
Unfortunately the language is in Italian, use Google translate... My Gios Professional has the original decals and close inspection has clear vinyl coating like clear tape to protect the Gios decals. On the Gios webpage there's a page where you can order new decals, don't know if they will ship to the USA.
GIOS Professional
Unfortunately the language is in Italian, use Google translate... My Gios Professional has the original decals and close inspection has clear vinyl coating like clear tape to protect the Gios decals. On the Gios webpage there's a page where you can order new decals, don't know if they will ship to the USA.
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06-09-14, 06:08 AM
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Many Thanks for the info.
I understand from Gios that they refuse to ship anything. You must travel to them.
How this remarkable policy will work for them is unclear to me, but presumably there is a good reason for this. I wish them well in any case.
Thanks for checking the decals/stickers on your frame. I think I'll shoot a coating onto the repro decals/stickers on mine.
I understand from Gios that they refuse to ship anything. You must travel to them.
How this remarkable policy will work for them is unclear to me, but presumably there is a good reason for this. I wish them well in any case.
Thanks for checking the decals/stickers on your frame. I think I'll shoot a coating onto the repro decals/stickers on mine.
06-09-14, 07:48 AM
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The reason I commented on the difference of "decals" is that there are water slide decals used on bicycles too. Those often really do benefit from a top coating.
The original Gios graphics from the 80's were silk screened onto vinyl, so the colors were opaque ink, very different process than the reproductions. Sometimes the originals appeared flat over the typography, sometimes glossy. Probably a supplier decision. At the time they were not known to be terrifically color fast or durable. Terror to the bike mechanic that clamped the Park work stand over them.
I would clear coat them masking off the paint just beyond the panel to seal the edges and double checking for the compatibility of the clear on the vinyl, most likely a two part clear would be best. Eastwood sells a one can two part clear automotive top coat if you do not have a spraygun. 3M fineline masking tape is the ticket.
The original Gios graphics from the 80's were silk screened onto vinyl, so the colors were opaque ink, very different process than the reproductions. Sometimes the originals appeared flat over the typography, sometimes glossy. Probably a supplier decision. At the time they were not known to be terrifically color fast or durable. Terror to the bike mechanic that clamped the Park work stand over them.
I would clear coat them masking off the paint just beyond the panel to seal the edges and double checking for the compatibility of the clear on the vinyl, most likely a two part clear would be best. Eastwood sells a one can two part clear automotive top coat if you do not have a spraygun. 3M fineline masking tape is the ticket.
06-09-14, 09:49 AM
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Thanks repechage.
I understand about the decal vs. "sticker" concept.
I have a spray setup and some 2-part clear. But considering the setup and cleanup time involved, I may well try the Eastwood product for fun.
Indeed a good point about millennial inkjet on vinyl not being the same as 80's silkscreen on vinyl. Of course in some cases, the modern ink could be superior.
Looking very carefully at 80's Gios pics, it seems that some stickers were coated and others seem to not have been coated. The wear shows signs of significant variation in the process used on a given batch vs. some others.
A silly obsessive question of mine, but the bike rides superbly and looks in far better condition than it has any right to. So may as well shoot the stickers.
Unrelated: Man is the market soft for fine 80's frames in excellent condition. Amazing values for fine bikes if you like that sort of thing.
Thanks again.
I understand about the decal vs. "sticker" concept.
I have a spray setup and some 2-part clear. But considering the setup and cleanup time involved, I may well try the Eastwood product for fun.
Indeed a good point about millennial inkjet on vinyl not being the same as 80's silkscreen on vinyl. Of course in some cases, the modern ink could be superior.
Looking very carefully at 80's Gios pics, it seems that some stickers were coated and others seem to not have been coated. The wear shows signs of significant variation in the process used on a given batch vs. some others.
A silly obsessive question of mine, but the bike rides superbly and looks in far better condition than it has any right to. So may as well shoot the stickers.
Unrelated: Man is the market soft for fine 80's frames in excellent condition. Amazing values for fine bikes if you like that sort of thing.
Thanks again.
Last edited by ctparent; 06-09-14 at 09:54 AM.
06-09-14, 04:39 PM
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No clear over the top of the stickers on my 1983 Professional.
Slight rubbing on the top tube 'Professional' decal (as it should be) to provide evidence that it is original, and the bike has been only been lightly used.
the explanation is set out here
Slight rubbing on the top tube 'Professional' decal (as it should be) to provide evidence that it is original, and the bike has been only been lightly used.
I understand from Gios that they refuse to ship anything. You must travel to them.
How this remarkable policy will work for them is unclear to me, but presumably there is a good reason for this. I wish them well in any case.
How this remarkable policy will work for them is unclear to me, but presumably there is a good reason for this. I wish them well in any case.
Guido wrote in with add'l information that was posted in a Dutch forum: "There were many rumors in recent months about the division of GIOS. Time for clarification and the real story behind all the developments of recent times.
There was no family feud between Alfredo and Aldo Gios, of this there is absolutely no question. The decision to split the old GIOS into two new parts was a pure business decision, motivated by an annoying longstanding legal matter.
GIOS was wrapped in a costly legal battle with one, for privacy reasons undisclosed, wealthy, Belgian dealer. A suit was involved which the Belgian won and the result was that GIOS could be in jeopardy.
The case was very expensive for GIOS so much so that it affected the liquidity of the small company.
The solution proved to be to liquidate the old GIOS. For the the Belgian party there was nothing left to achieve and no further damage could be caused to GIOS. The new GIOS is not a contracting party of the Belgians.
Then the new GIOS established a company in two parts run by Alfredo and his brother Aldo. Alfredo focuses his Japanese-made range from Biciclette GIOS aimed and touring and city bikes. Marco and Aldo run the new racing bike through Biciclette GIOS - Le originali Made in Italy for race-oriented riders.
GIOS is beginning new collection for 2010 building on the tradition of the past. Including specifically the individual 'Italian' philosophy of frame building geometry is maintained. GIOS is alive!
There was no family feud between Alfredo and Aldo Gios, of this there is absolutely no question. The decision to split the old GIOS into two new parts was a pure business decision, motivated by an annoying longstanding legal matter.
GIOS was wrapped in a costly legal battle with one, for privacy reasons undisclosed, wealthy, Belgian dealer. A suit was involved which the Belgian won and the result was that GIOS could be in jeopardy.
The case was very expensive for GIOS so much so that it affected the liquidity of the small company.
The solution proved to be to liquidate the old GIOS. For the the Belgian party there was nothing left to achieve and no further damage could be caused to GIOS. The new GIOS is not a contracting party of the Belgians.
Then the new GIOS established a company in two parts run by Alfredo and his brother Aldo. Alfredo focuses his Japanese-made range from Biciclette GIOS aimed and touring and city bikes. Marco and Aldo run the new racing bike through Biciclette GIOS - Le originali Made in Italy for race-oriented riders.
GIOS is beginning new collection for 2010 building on the tradition of the past. Including specifically the individual 'Italian' philosophy of frame building geometry is maintained. GIOS is alive!
06-09-14, 05:37 PM
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For what it's worth, Velocals offers different stickers for the same bike model. One version is thinner and intended for burying with clear coat. The other is UV resistant and intended for applying over the final clear coat.
My Sannino (which has very similar stickers to the Gios bikes I've seen) had original stickers over the clear top coat. They were fairly thick stickers and had a clear top layer over them. This clear layer was either an integral "laminate" of the sticker, or placed over the sticker (I can't tell). It extends just a couple mm past the white sticker material. Either way, it did not separate from the sticker when I removed them by heating and peeling. It all came off as a single unit.
When I replaced the stickers, I used the thicker Velocal UV-resistant/non clearcoat stickers and other than some minor discrepancies that are only visible side-by-side with the original, they look identical to the original in terms of the material used and the thickness. If they were the thin ones, and I buried them in clear coat, they would not look the same as original. If I ever repaint this bike, I will go with the same stickers that are on now, placed on top of the final clear coat.
My Sannino (which has very similar stickers to the Gios bikes I've seen) had original stickers over the clear top coat. They were fairly thick stickers and had a clear top layer over them. This clear layer was either an integral "laminate" of the sticker, or placed over the sticker (I can't tell). It extends just a couple mm past the white sticker material. Either way, it did not separate from the sticker when I removed them by heating and peeling. It all came off as a single unit.
When I replaced the stickers, I used the thicker Velocal UV-resistant/non clearcoat stickers and other than some minor discrepancies that are only visible side-by-side with the original, they look identical to the original in terms of the material used and the thickness. If they were the thin ones, and I buried them in clear coat, they would not look the same as original. If I ever repaint this bike, I will go with the same stickers that are on now, placed on top of the final clear coat.
Last edited by Camilo; 06-09-14 at 05:40 PM.
06-09-14, 06:50 PM
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Hi Bigblock,
Thanks for the post. Nothing that I have seen anywhere explains why the new Gios in Italy established the sales-prevention policy of shipping nothing.
If they see the value in their owners gallery of vintage bikes, then why the arguable contempt for once and future clients by refusing to supply rubber cable guides, or other Gios-specific items to an adoring worldwide fan base?
Terrific bikes and a great history since De Vlaeminck. Too bad they do not want to ride the current (but not eternal) wave of steel nostalgia - which involves UPS beyond the town borders.
In my opinion. Surely they know what they want and why they want it independent of some web forum jerk opinion.
Thanks for the post. Nothing that I have seen anywhere explains why the new Gios in Italy established the sales-prevention policy of shipping nothing.
If they see the value in their owners gallery of vintage bikes, then why the arguable contempt for once and future clients by refusing to supply rubber cable guides, or other Gios-specific items to an adoring worldwide fan base?
Terrific bikes and a great history since De Vlaeminck. Too bad they do not want to ride the current (but not eternal) wave of steel nostalgia - which involves UPS beyond the town borders.
In my opinion. Surely they know what they want and why they want it independent of some web forum jerk opinion.
06-09-14, 06:53 PM
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>>> For what it's worth, Velocals offers different stickers for the same bike model.
I called Velocals about the "Professional" decals since they only had "Super Record" decals/stickers listed.
Mr. 'Cals told me he would specifically list the "Professional" decals later that day on the website. After 10 days with no listing, I just bought them elsewhere.
No gripes on my part. It is great to have multiple sources from which to choose as one sees fit.
I called Velocals about the "Professional" decals since they only had "Super Record" decals/stickers listed.
Mr. 'Cals told me he would specifically list the "Professional" decals later that day on the website. After 10 days with no listing, I just bought them elsewhere.
No gripes on my part. It is great to have multiple sources from which to choose as one sees fit.
06-09-14, 07:03 PM
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Hi Bigblock,
Thanks for the post. Nothing that I have seen anywhere explains why the new Gios in Italy established the sales-prevention policy of shipping nothing.
If they see the value in their owners gallery of vintage bikes, then why the arguable contempt for once and future clients by refusing to supply rubber cable guides, or other Gios-specific items to an adoring worldwide fan base?
Terrific bikes and a great history since De Vlaeminck. Too bad they do not want to ride the current (but not eternal) wave of steel nostalgia - which involves UPS beyond the town borders.
In my opinion. Surely they know what they want and why they want it independent of some web forum jerk opinion.
Thanks for the post. Nothing that I have seen anywhere explains why the new Gios in Italy established the sales-prevention policy of shipping nothing.
If they see the value in their owners gallery of vintage bikes, then why the arguable contempt for once and future clients by refusing to supply rubber cable guides, or other Gios-specific items to an adoring worldwide fan base?
Terrific bikes and a great history since De Vlaeminck. Too bad they do not want to ride the current (but not eternal) wave of steel nostalgia - which involves UPS beyond the town borders.
In my opinion. Surely they know what they want and why they want it independent of some web forum jerk opinion.
There are other Italian "names" also prohibited from the USA market. Just how things are.
06-10-14, 01:07 AM
#14
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Nothing that I have seen anywhere explains why the new Gios in Italy established the sales-prevention policy of shipping nothing.
If they see the value in their owners gallery of vintage bikes, then why the arguable contempt for once and future clients by refusing to supply rubber cable guides, or other Gios-specific items to an adoring worldwide fan base?
If they see the value in their owners gallery of vintage bikes, then why the arguable contempt for once and future clients by refusing to supply rubber cable guides, or other Gios-specific items to an adoring worldwide fan base?
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