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Raleigh Gran Sport... should I?

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Raleigh Gran Sport... should I?

Old 07-15-14, 06:30 AM
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well its built up, i haven't taken any pictures yet because im not sure its in its final stages. i had a set of barcons laying in the bin, so i decide to go with those instead of DT, not sure if i like them or not.

couple of things.

1. the ride quality is "ehh" not sure if its the cheapy tires or if something is out of wack, i rebuilt both the hubs lastnight and replaced the simplex freewheel with a shimano 600 6spd, i noticed the axel was bent when i was rebuilding the hubs, so i went ahead and replaced that too. we'll see,

2. for whatever reason the front wheel is off center, i flipped the wheel around and got the same result. I wasn't sure if the fork was bent or not, so i took it to my LBS for a check up, they confirmed it wasn't the dropouts, and they said the blades weren't tweaked, but they never checked them. im skeptical, they redished the wheel for me to pull it closer in line, its still off but not nearly as bad.

3. not sure about the rando bars, would it be sacrelig to replace them? i have a ton of bars laying around...

pictures coming... once its in its final stage..
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Old 07-15-14, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by GordoTrek
1. the ride quality is "ehh" not sure if its the cheapy tires or if something is out of wack, i rebuilt both the hubs lastnight and replaced the simplex freewheel with a shimano 600 6spd, i noticed the axel was bent when i was rebuilding the hubs, so i went ahead and replaced that too. we'll see
If you have a fork misalignment it may not feel right regardless of other things. But cheap tires will make a difference. Replacing the bent axle was necessary, of course. I don't recall (and am too lazy to go check) from the original post what wheels it has, perhaps the original 27". 27" wheels will feel slightly more sluggish because of the larger radius but they will also feel smoother for the same reason and because of the larger air volume. They may roll more easily too. The differences can be pretty subtle.

Originally Posted by GordoTrek
2. for whatever reason the front wheel is off center, i flipped the wheel around and got the same result... im skeptical, they redished the wheel for me to pull it closer in line, its still off but not nearly as bad.
It sounds like the blades are offset to one side. Is the spacing actually 100mm? In any case, a good frame builder can align them quickly. Your LBS probably checked the DOs for alignment w.r.t. each other, but you need a real alignment table w/steerer tube clamp to check it properly and fix.

I have one bike which seemed to have a fork problem with the first wheel I tried, a set bought from a BF member who never responded to queries about another minor issue. It turned out that someone (that BF member? the bearings were full of dried automotive grease) had rebuilt the bearings and used mismatched cones with different thickness on each side. Flipping the wheel made the tire offset to the other side, of course. At first I thought it was a dishing problem so I re-dished the wheel. That centered the tire but the visual lines of the spokes from the saddle was disconcertingly asymmetric. Further inspection showed why. An appropriate spacer washer and undoing the re-dish (which is to say, re-dishing it again) solved the problem. I later moved that wheel to a different bike, and neither it nor that first bike had a problem. It's just an unusual possibility to explore.

Originally Posted by GordoTrek
3. not sure about the rando bars, would it be sacrelig to replace them? i have a ton of bars laying around...
My GS frame came to me with stem but without handlebar. I rode it for a long time with a straight drop road bar, tried SR World Randonneur bars but didn't like it, took it off.

Don't toss them or the GB stem!
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Old 07-15-14, 07:58 AM
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i had a spare 6 speed norman hub, so i was able to replace the axel rather easily, i kinda figure its a combination of the fork being goofed and the cheapo tires, i have some nicer mismatched tires that im going to try out, hopefully ill have better results, i need to find an LBS that can check forks.. i could tell my local place was a little lost

i also tried a different front wheel to eliminate any issues with with hubs, and i was getting the same problem, so its gotta be a tweaked fork, i jus cant tell from the naked eye, only the wheel is off
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Old 07-15-14, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by GordoTrek
i need to find an LBS that can check forks..
Not an LBS. A frame builder, or a good LBS associated with one. I can't speak for Rochester but there are several around here.

Your generic "performance-oriented" LBS these days won't even want to think about a steel frame, and if they do they probably aren't set up for straightening one. Of course you can call around.
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Old 07-15-14, 08:50 AM
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not sure of any framebuilders in my area, ill have to check, there is an LBS that specializes in older stuff. ill check them out too
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Old 07-15-14, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jeirvine
Get it. Great riding bikes. The English ones were DB 531 frame/fork, though most did not have forged drops. (I think '73s sometimes came with Zeus forged drops.) 80's Japanese ones were not 531. I love love love mine:
Great looking bike! Chromed fork, chromed stays, randonneur bars, bar end shifters, brake lever hoods and Brooks saddle make this bike special!
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Old 07-28-14, 07:21 AM
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UPDATE..

finally sorted out the fork issue, it wasn't bent at all, the dropouts were goofy, one was deeper than the other, a noticed somebody tried to correct the issue in the past.
i cleaned up their mess now it doesn't travel at all, its not 100% , but i'm happy with it, and i don't want to run the risk of making things worse, like i tend to do when i can't leave well enough alone.


so i ordered these.. they aren't the tour guard like i wanted but i think ill be happy.. anybody familiar ?

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=506281176025\

hope to have these today, and be on the road with them soon!!
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Old 07-28-14, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by GordoTrek
finally sorted out the fork issue, it wasn't bent at all, the dropouts were goofy, one was deeper than the other, a noticed somebody tried to correct the issue in the past. ...
so i ordered these.. they aren't the tour guard like i wanted but i think ill be happy.. anybody familiar ?
Your ebay link says the item is no longer available so we can't see what you are asking about! But if you mean the new puncture-protected Pasela which now uses something other than aramid then you should be just fine.

What exactly was the issue with fork and dropouts? Often the term dropouts is used for the rear. Though the rear DOs might be different depths it doesn't matter on that bike because one side always has length taken up with the RD claw. Which is to say, you have to center the rear wheel "manually", but I guess you knew that. The front dropouts, i.e. the fork, is usually made to much better precision precisely because you can't do any adjustment, either manually of with set screws.
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Old 07-28-14, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jimmuller
Your ebay link says the item is no longer available so we can't see what you are asking about! But if you mean the new puncture-protected Pasela which now uses something other than aramid then you should be just fine.

What exactly was the issue with fork and dropouts? Often the term dropouts is used for the rear. Though the rear DOs might be different depths it doesn't matter on that bike because one side always has length taken up with the RD claw. Which is to say, you have to center the rear wheel "manually", but I guess you knew that. The front dropouts, i.e. the fork, is usually made to much better precision precisely because you can't do any adjustment, either manually of with set screws.
jim if you read through the thread you will see what the issue with the fork was,

here is what i bought
Panaracer Pasela 27x1 1 8 Black Tan Steel Bead | eBay
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Old 07-28-14, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by GordoTrek
jim if you read through the thread you will see what the issue with the fork was,

here is what i bought
Panaracer Pasela 27x1 1 8 Black Tan Steel Bead | eBay
Good tire choice, probably similar to what it came with. (You do have 27", i.e. ISO 630 rims, right?) I still run 27" rims on mine too, but 25mm (1") Paselas.

As for the fork, I was hoping not to have to read through 4 pages, 80-some posts, to see what the issue was.
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Old 07-28-14, 08:33 AM
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Front dropouts were uneven, though the blades were straight. I had that on a 70's Peugeot once. I just clamped the QR really tight.
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Old 07-28-14, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jimmuller
Good tire choice, probably similar to what it came with. (You do have 27", i.e. ISO 630 rims, right?) I still run 27" rims on mine too, but 25mm (1") Paselas.

As for the fork, I was hoping not to have to read through 4 pages, 80-some posts, to see what the issue was.
the front wheel was off center, and i couldn't figure out why, took it to an lbs, they verified the dropouts were fine, thought the fork was tweaked but it looked fine from the naked eye, only the wheel sat off center.
after a bit of troubleshooting, i noticed one of the dropouts on the fork was deeper than the other,
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Old 08-06-14, 11:32 AM
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after a fit of flats on the front rim, ive finally have the new tires installed, now that its in decent running shape i was able to get a good read on her..
the handling is ok.. still doesn't glide like you want it to... can't figure out whats wrong,, the fork issue seems to be the culprit.. i thought after the redish and tweaks it would be ok, but it still pulls to the right...
maybe new forks are in order? hate to say it but i'm leaning that way,

there is definitely something up with dropouts, the left drop out looks like it has been filed, and the right looks normal. when the rim is just sitting in the forks there is a quite a bit of play in the filed dropout, now i can lock it down with a QR to get it to stay.. im thinking maybe a washer or something on the axel to give it a little bit of clearance? im kinda out of ideas.. any thoughts? i really don't want to file the other drop out if i don't have to, i've never filed drop outs before and i don't want to make it worse... anyway im kinda bummed about this whole thing..
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Old 08-06-14, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by GordoTrek
after a fit of flats on the front rim, ive finally have the new tires installed, now that its in decent running shape i was able to get a good read on her..
the handling is ok.. still doesn't glide like you want it to... can't figure out whats wrong,, the fork issue seems to be the culprit.. i thought after the redish and tweaks it would be ok, but it still pulls to the right...
maybe new forks are in order? hate to say it but i'm leaning that way,

there is definitely something up with dropouts, the left drop out looks like it has been filed, and the right looks normal. when the rim is just sitting in the forks there is a quite a bit of play in the filed dropout, now i can lock it down with a QR to get it to stay.. im thinking maybe a washer or something on the axel to give it a little bit of clearance? im kinda out of ideas.. any thoughts? i really don't want to file the other drop out if i don't have to, i've never filed drop outs before and i don't want to make it worse... anyway im kinda bummed about this whole thing..
If you've got a spare wheel with a solid axle lying around I'd swap it out for that and see if that solves your problem. With the solid axle you should be able to tighten things up enough to eliminate any potential play. It's probably not what you want in a long term fix, but it should at least help identify the problem.

One other thing to consider, it doesn't ride right now and you're thinking of swapping out the fork anyway, so if you are certain it's the fork what do you have to lose by filing on it?

I did read this entire thread, but I don't completely remember it at this point. Have you actually checked frame alignment? You can do a crude job of it with a string and a tape measure and a level.

Last edited by John Hood; 08-06-14 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 08-06-14, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by John Hood
If you've got a spare wheel with a solid axle lying around I'd swap it out for that and see if that solves your problem. With the solid axle you should be able to tighten things up enough to eliminate any potential play. It's probably not what you want in a long term fix, but it should at least help identify the problem.

One other thing to consider, it doesn't ride right now and you're thinking of swapping out the fork anyway, so if you are certain it's the fork what do you have to lose by filing on it?

I did read this entire thread, but I don't completely remember it at this point. Have you actually checked frame alignment? You can do a crude job of it with a string and a tape measure and a level.
i did try it with another front wheel, that was one of the few things i tried first. i didn't notice a change, but i will give it a shot with a solid axle, ive checked the frame, everything else looks ok, even the forks look good, just the drop outs, your right about filing, maybe ill give it a shot if all else fails
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Old 08-07-14, 06:29 AM
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so last night I spent some time fiddling with the front wheel again, I noticed I could pull the tire into alignment when the quick release was loose, im guessing that was the reason for the PO filing ? maybe it was a manufacturing defect? so after it was properly aligned i locked the quick release down and took for a spin.. wow what a difference in handling, amazing, couldn't stay off the bike, riding with no hands, that glorious humming sound from the tires.. that magic feeling...
my only concern is, that the wheel might shift back in the drop out while im riding, i put about 10 miles on it last night with no problems, so we will see
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Old 08-07-14, 08:21 AM
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So it sounds like the filing is what is causing the misaligned drops. Maybe the previous owner had a poorly dished wheel and filed the drop to compensate. I think there is plenty of strength in a standard quick release lever to hold it straight, or file the other one to even things out.
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Old 08-07-14, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jeirvine
So it sounds like the filing is what is causing the misaligned drops. Maybe the previous owner had a poorly dished wheel and filed the drop to compensate. I think there is plenty of strength in a standard quick release lever to hold it straight, or file the other one to even things out.
something along those lines im sure, i going to leave it as is.. i don't trust my filing ability,
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Old 08-07-14, 08:52 AM
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I wouldn't bother to file the front dropouts, personally. Just manually center the front tire between the fork blades, or even apply the front brake to hold the wheel centered while you close the QR.
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Old 08-07-14, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jyl
I wouldn't bother to file the front dropouts, personally. Just manually center the front tire between the fork blades, or even apply the front brake to hold the wheel centered while you close the QR.
The trouble with just centering the wheel as you tighten the QR skewer is that the vertical loads are taken solely by the grip of the skewer instead of the axle resting in the DO. If you don't get it tight enough it could slip if you hit a bump hard enough. On the other hand, I've see hubs where when the bearings were adjusted "just right" I could tighten the skewer so much that the bearings would thicken up. That argues for not making the skewer as tight as you can get it. So how would you find the right amount?

Here is another possible cause. Twice I've had a LBS dweeb put an axle in a vise and tighten it enough to ovalize the end. The result was that when I put it in the DO it might or might not skew the wheel, depending on how the axle happened to be rotated at that time. (Another symptom was the threads on the skewer would catch on the slightly flattened ends on the axle.) If you've reversed the wheel and it was still offset the same way then this isn't your problem. Unless your axle is damaged at both ends and you just happened to mount the wheel with the same effect. That's unlikely but if you or a PO or a LBS dweeb worked on your wheels, including a spare wheel you might have tried, then it is always possible. Replacing an axle is easy and relatively cheap.
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Old 08-07-14, 12:18 PM
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ive tried 3 different wheels, none of which have been touched by the same person in terms of service, , all exhibit the same result, its the Dropouts for sure, ill take another look again, im not going to file anything until im certain what needs to be filed and how much,
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Old 08-07-14, 01:13 PM
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I would say filing the fork tips is an investment in effort that will yield eternal gratitude towards yourself. Do it; you won't be sorry you did. Use a rattail file. Don't take off too much at once, and take frequent measurements as you go. I promise, you can do this. Filing steel is an intuitive activity for most who try it. It's not much different from filing your nails.
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Old 05-16-20, 09:17 PM
  #98  
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I have a 1975 raleigh gran sport but the question I have is with the chrome fork. The fork is 100 percent chrome not just chrome socks. Is it possible that this fork is reynolds 531? It pings like other reynolds 531 forks, but I just have never seen a full chrome 531 fork on a gran sport before. My other two gran sport have the chrome socks on the fork?
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Old 05-17-20, 08:09 PM
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Any brand marks stamped into the dropouts?... e.g. Huret?
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Old 05-17-20, 10:30 PM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by backmd
I have a 1975 raleigh gran sport but the question I have is with the chrome fork. The fork is 100 percent chrome not just chrome socks. Is it possible that this fork is reynolds 531? It pings like other reynolds 531 forks, but I just have never seen a full chrome 531 fork on a gran sport before. My other two gran sport have the chrome socks on the fork?
We would need to see a photo of the fork crown and dropouts to guess as to whether it is even a Raleigh fork. It sounds like a replacement fork.

Fortunately, most 27" replacement forks were made long, like Raleigh's forks.
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