Frame with front impact, to damaged to ride?
 

My Team Fuji was found behind an outbuilding at a junkyard five years ago. Since that time I have put about a thousand miles on it. The reason for the low miles is that the frame shows some damage from a front impact. The reason it has any miles at all is that it is the most comfortable "fast" bike I own. Seriously, when I get on this bike its wonderful.

The fork is strait and shows no damage, the headset feels perfect, and I can ride it for a mile no handed. I have speculated that the frame was straitened.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=399016http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=399017http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=399018



I pulled it down tonight, and realized that I have not ridden it in a year, being distracted by a couple other rides, and being leery of the frame damage. Based on these admittedly bad pictures, what would you do?

I'd ride it.

I like you a lot.

Thought I would edit to say, because you were the first to say what I really want to hear.

I'd ride it. But I've never had a frame collapse under me. Honestly, if its been straightened and you've got 1000 miles on it, there's nothing to say you can't put a couple thousand more on, right? just check the damage every week or so, and if it starts getting worse, you know the answer, its unlikely to explode all at once.

Agree with the posters above - you rode it 1,000 miles already and it didn't fail, that's pretty good evidence that it's okay to keep using.

I would sand the crinkled area down to the metal and then repaint with something light to make inspection easier. I did this with my crashed-and-straightened Bianchi Eros, and things are still copacetic 2000 miles later. :thumb:

I wouldn't worry too much about it. That doesn't look like much damage at all. I think we run greater risks just riding, than that frame would pose.

This sounds like the plan. I have wanted to repaint it totally, keeping the blue and yellow, but will probably just do a spot touchup. When I first found the bike, I did some research into the wheelbase, and this measured spot on.(forgot the numbers now.

I wanted to buy another frame, but they seem to go for 400+ on ebay, when they come up at all. http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=399032this is the last picture I took, it now has a cinelli stem and one blue and one yellow tire. It looks quite nice. And I am not embarrassed by the triple at all. on the last ride it did, there where a couple of comments in the first 90 miles about triples, but when I spun up the last mountain at miles 91 to 96, no one said anything to me when they got to the top where I was waiting...:p

Personally I wouldn't be too worried about the frame. Even if it does eventually fail it seems likely that it would do so with some warning. I agree with the idea of sanding down the area for a closer look. I'd also take the fork off and give it a very careful examination. I've had one experience of a sudden steerer tube failure and don't want a repetition.

My vote is ride it, but inspect it weekly.:)

I always say to consider usage when appraising the reliability of heavily-used or damaged parts or frames.

At one extreme, where a ~heavier rider is doing ~high mileage over ~rough roads and at a ~high rate of speed, I would consider the frame to be a stand-in for a near-term replacement.

At the other extreme, with a ~light rider doing ~moderate mileage over ~decent roads and at a ~less-aggressive pace, the frame will likely last a lifetime (or two).

As for me, at just under 150lbs, I might ride it a lot, to spare my better bikes from wear and tear. I have ridden many bikes with various degrees of crimping around the head lugs.

It looks pretty straight to me.

The bike is made from high quality alloy steel tubing. It looks like the front end was flexed enough to crack the paint. Steel can be flexed a certain amount before it takes a permanent bend.

If you can ride hands off then it's likely that the frame is pretty well aligned, especially if the headset is smooth. If you pull the fork out check the base of the steerer for any sign that it's been bent. The fork blades should be aligned with the steerer.

If the forks and steerer aren't bent then it's likely that the frame may actually be slightly stronger from work hardening resulting from the flexing caused by the accident.

I'd ride it and keep an eye on the lugs especially the underside of the bottom lug. That's where a failure is likely to start.

One of the First things that I do when I'm checking out a frame is to feel under the top and bottom of the head tube lugs to feel if there is any sign of rippling caused by a front end collision. I'm also suspect of any frame with a missing or mismatched fork. Why? what happened?

I have 2 frames that I bought that have been in front enders. I used to build and repair frames. I took both of them to to a frame builder friend's shop and we checked them out. They were not seriously damaged but when I ride them, I keep an eye out for any sign of cracks.

verktyg

Chas.

If you're worried about that frame failing, you should be a lot more worried about your fork blades. They were manufactured straight and then bent afterwards. Your frame won't fail.

I had a head on about a month ago with a scooter and ended with the TT and DT on the head lugs having creased :( my Koga Miyata 79 luxe-s. Was riding it and could not deal with it and put it on the market as parts. Was so nice to ride.
If you are not happy with it, let it go.

I'd ride, failure would be slow and progressive. Just keep an eye on the area for a while then

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...a90edXFe26al4g

forgetaboutit

I'm interested in those shifters-

The problem is to the resale value and the aesthetics. The head angle probably got pushed back 30' if that so the handling variation is probably not enough to notice unless you rode a perfect same size example in a back to back comparison.

That written, I had passed on a number of bikes (some really interesting) due to this type of damage, so for me is collapses the value a lot.

Right, as a resale, it's very damaged. As a rider, it's barely damaged at all. I think the greatest risk to the bike, not you, is to the paint, so yeah, sand off the buckled paint so you can watch the rust. [MENTION=63590]jyl[/MENTION] makes an excellent and interesting point about risk.

As others said, steel frames fail slowly. It will feel noodly before it fails. It won't just collapse suddenly. And I predict this frame won't fail at all, as long as you watch the rust. Even then, I can't remember ever seeing a frame fail from rust, though I know it does happen sometimes.

Read my lips: ;)

"If you can ride hands off then it's likely that the frame is pretty well aligned, especially if the headset is smooth. If you pull the fork out check the base of the steerer for any sign that it's been bent. The fork blades should be aligned with the steerer."

Metals have a characteristic called ELONGATION. It's a measure of how much a test sample can be stretched before it doesn't return to it's original dimensions when the tension is released.

In high quality steels like the tubing used in better quality bike frames, it's 8% to 10%.

In real life that means the fork blades, steerer and front of the frame have to have bent more than ~10% before any permanent change takes place... for example the fork rake changes or the head tube is bent backwards.

Hardened paint is not very flexible so it will crack when the tubing moves past a certain point, leaving evidence that the bike was in a crash.

In reality, a certain amount of stretching will actually increase the strength of the steel through what's called cold working. That's one way to increase the strength of the tubing during manufacturing - it's called cold drawn.

I completely agree with noglider... :thumb:

Cracked paint, ripples in the tubes, a missing, bent or mismatched fork is a deal breaker for me because eventually I plan on selling off my herd.

I bought one frame cheap from a local frame builder. It was in a crash and he straightened and realigned it. There's some pretty severe paint cracking behind the lug on the top tube. I got it to build a wet weather beater bike so it didn't matter.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=399123

Another frame that I have that's been in a front ender is a 1982 Motobecane Team Champion. I got it on eBay and did a local pickup. When I walked up to the seller I immediately noticed that the fork was wrong. I looked at the fork ends an they were Tange - it was a replacement fork! I felt under the top and down tube lugs and it was slightly rippled. There were no cracks in the paint but I was sick because the frame was otherwise in beautiful condition.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=399120

I took it my friend's shop and we checked the alignment which was OK... but the Tange replacement fork was over a 1/2" too long which changed the head tube angle. I negotiated a substantial refund and kept the frame. I've had it since 2007 and haven't finished putting it together, probably because I'm still disappointed - it's "damaged goods"

I did luck out and find a Gitane fork with the identical dimensions as the original Moto fork, even the dropouts match.

I've gotten this far on it. The stem is set too high because I haven't finished adjusting the headset.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=399124

verktyg

Chas.

This early-1960's Bianchi frame apparently was given some framebuilder's blessing after a severe front-ender.

The builder had to straighten/replace the top tube, down tube and head tube, after which the lower head lug was extensively reinforced with "extended" lower lug along the bottom (visible above cable hsg).
The owner then had the bike painted, and mounted the shifters to cover the head tube buckling:

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8252/...627d4bda_c.jpg

[QUOTE=dddd;17034317]This early-1960's Bianchi frame apparently was given some framebuilder's blessing after a severe front-ender.

The builder had to straighten/replace the top tube, down tube and head tube, after which the lower head lug was extensively reinforced with "extended" lower lug along the bottom (visible above cable hsg).
The owner then had the bike painted, and mounted the shifters to cover the head tube buckling:

QUOTE]

Those were the days when things were actually repaired. I have several things that would have been simply replaced instead of fixed, including some alloy brake levers that were welded, as well as some Ashtabula cranks that have been repaired, and a BF Goodrich frame that looks like it was fixed by someone who used plumbing lead on the downtube.

I had a '70's Le Tour with similar damage and never had any problems with it. I'd say go a head and ride it!