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Schwinn Pecking Order – Please Chime In

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Schwinn Pecking Order – Please Chime In

Old 08-17-14, 11:07 AM
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Schwinn Pecking Order – Please Chime In

I have a 79’ World Sport that I bought new, and was told it’s not worth very much. So I asked the guy at my LBS what I should have bought back then, and he said a Paramount.

So what’s the pecking order for vintage Schwinn models in order from the most desirable to the least? Everyone opinion welcome.


057912

Edited: Correction, it's a '79 not a '72

Last edited by ejaggers; 08-22-14 at 08:16 AM. Reason: CORECTION: it's a '79 not '72
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Old 08-17-14, 11:14 AM
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Is your bike a 1972 or a 1979?
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Old 08-17-14, 11:46 AM
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Schwinn catalogs are all on line, just look them up, models are in order. Back then, Schwinn had a waiting list for bikes. Rather than improve their product line, they were happy just producing the same stuff. So they only had a couple of "good" models, the rest were basic to extremely basic.

actually, Schwinn left the imported bikes out of the catalog, but the only good import back then was the World Voyageur, and it was a 1973. I'm thinking in 1972 they had a World Traveler, and it was low end.

My comments are in regards to 1972.

In 1972, Paramount, then Sport Tourer, then Super Sport, then Continental, etc.

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Old 08-17-14, 01:10 PM
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Schwinn 1972 Cycling '72 -- Front Cover

Thats an overview of the 72 catalogue, not seeing the world sport.

Heres the 79 one:

Schwinn 1979 Bicycles And Accessories -- X-tra Lite Models Specifications

Theres a lot of steel on it, and the frame was straight gauge steel. The whole thing is listed at 33 pounds, which is heavy. for comparison, the paramount the bike shop mentioned is listed at 23 pounds.

All in all, not a very high end bike. The hallmarks of a lowerend bike are all there, like stem shifters, safety levers, kickstand.. Great bike to learn mechanics on though.

Paramount is the most sought after, and there's a big drop in quality after that. by the 80's schwinn was selling a range that included some more mid level bikes, and even the world sport was made of cro-moly tubing, an upgrade on straight gauge.
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Old 08-17-14, 01:17 PM
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Given that the OP lists a '79 World Sport in their profile, i'm thinking '72 was a typo.

If you base desirability on a combination of current market value and fanaticism by BF members you'd get something like this:

Paramount
Superior (Baby Paramount)
Superior (Fillet BRazed)
Sports Tourer
Super Sport
World Voyageur
Varsity/Continental

I'm not including PDG series bikes in the list because largely nobody knows how good the good ones are and they don't fetch big bux.

Yes Varsity is on the list because there's legions of die hard fanatics (also homeless people) who ride and love them.
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Old 08-17-14, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox
Given that the OP lists a '79 World Sport in their profile, i'm thinking '72 was a typo.

If you base desirability on a combination of current market value and fanaticism by BF members you'd get something like this:

Paramount
Superior (Baby Paramount)
Superior (Fillet BRazed)
Sports Tourer
Super Sport
World Voyageur
Varsity/Continental

I'm not including PDG series bikes in the list because largely nobody knows how good the good ones are and they don't fetch big bux.

Yes Varsity is on the list because there's legions of die hard fanatics (also homeless people) who ride and love them.
So where does my 1989 Schwinn Circuit fit in? Columbus SL / SP.
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Old 08-17-14, 02:20 PM
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It fits in the middle.

Schwinn Madison with its mild Columbus Tenax tubing, is a great riding bike as well.
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Old 08-17-14, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Whitlatch
So where does my 1989 Schwinn Circuit fit in? Columbus SL / SP.
The 89 catalog shows the Circuit as the second best steel bike in the Schwinn lineup.


Schwinn 1989 Lightweight Bicycles -- Circuit / Tempo
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Old 08-17-14, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by NormanF
It fits in the middle.

Schwinn Madison with its mild Columbus Tenax tubing, is a great riding bike as well.
Middle? LOL I think that would be the Le Tour. I am sure my Circuit rides every bit as nice as a Paramount. Just costs so much less in the used market. Makes me happy anyway.
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Old 08-17-14, 04:16 PM
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Ten years later... Paramount was still king. LeTour and Super LeTour were both nice bikes. There was one between the LeTours and Paramount. I forget what it was called.
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Old 08-17-14, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MickeyMaguire
Ten years later... Paramount was still king. LeTour and Super LeTour were both nice bikes. There was one between the LeTours and Paramount. I forget what it was called.
Peloton i think?

Ive been wanting an 86 letour lately, ever since I won an auction ebay and the dude never shipped it....
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Old 08-17-14, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox
Yes Varsity is on the list because there's legions of die hard fanatics (also homeless people) who ride and love them.
Not a fanatic but it was my first geared bike and I rode it through high school. Funny, I don't remember the gears being up at the head. Then again, I didn't shift often.
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Old 08-17-14, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MickeyMaguire
Ten years later... Paramount was still king. LeTour and Super LeTour were both nice bikes. There was one between the LeTours and Paramount. I forget what it was called.
It all depends on the year. Late 80`s it was the Prologue and the Circuit just bellow the Paramount. If you look at the Circuit, you will see a very fine machine. Prologue was made in Japan, the Circuit was made in the USA.

https://www.bikecatalogs.org/SCHWINN/...89_Ltwt_06.jpg
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Old 08-17-14, 05:32 PM
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That's why I didn't list any of those frames… all good ones but nobody knows/cares about them thus they fetch less $$$.

OP asked about desirability. Nobody is like oh man I really really want a Schwinn Circuit and I'll pay any price to get it!.

No….but Paramounts…people foam at the mouth and lose their minds and the contents of their wallets….its not that its a better bike…its more desirable.

There's also more fanatics over Varsity's than there probably should be…. way more than a Schwinn Peloton. Its not rational, its just the way it is. Most people have heard of a Schwinn Varsity, most people haven't heard of a Peloton
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Old 08-17-14, 08:45 PM
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If you ask me, it's the Voyageur SP. The 84 and 85 versions are the cat's pyjamas.

Any Voyageur is a pretty cool bike.
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Old 08-18-14, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox
Nobody is like oh man I really really want a Schwinn Circuit and I'll pay any price to get it!.
Actually, my neighbor has a mint 23" (?) Circuit hanging in his garage that I've been coveting ever since I spotted it. He won't sell at any reasonable price (yet!) because he knew it was special the minute he went to move it out of a house he flipped. Growing up in the Varsinental days, he'd never hoisted a bicycle anywhere near that light in his life.
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Old 08-18-14, 06:53 AM
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agreed on the PDG bikes. They fly under the radar. I had a PDG 3 series & ended up selling it when I got my '84 Waterford built Paramount. I won't get into the debates of which is better. Each has its own distinct characteristics and ride. There's a mint PDG series 5 I've been watching on CL but the guy is asking about double the value of it. But he's also asking I think about $4500 (correct # of zeros) for a 50th anniversary Paramount, at least that's what I was told by a freind that looked at it... a year ago (and its still for sale.) He's had it for sale for over a year and claims he doesn't really want to sell it but will for the right offer. I remember seeing it in person when I looked at a bike last summer he had for sale. Nice, near NOS but still.
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Old 08-18-14, 07:00 AM
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I want a PDG 7, but since I started looking I've only seen 650c frames. If I couldn't have that, I'd love an 85 Peloton, or 88 red Circuit. I'm a sucker for the chrome stylings on the Circuit.

Edit: I don't know why the LBS dude would say "You should have bought a Paramount," unless at the time, OP had an unlimited budget.
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Old 08-18-14, 07:45 AM
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I haven't seen any mention of the 1977/8 Volarie which was basically a Japanese built Paramount. It used 531 Reynolds tubing. Dura Ace group set. Slightly less fancy lugs and cost 50% of the same year Paramount. Roger
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Old 08-18-14, 09:45 AM
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Thanks for the bikecatalogs reference -- I found the 1990 successor to my KOM-10 mountain bike. Too bad Schwinn was so inexcusably late to the offroad party -- they had a pretty nice ATB lineup by the 1990s.
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Old 08-18-14, 09:56 AM
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OHhhh let's start talking about Tenax and how... oh wait. Relevant to the OP though, why is the Super Sport considered so good? I can understand for the 80's models, but I keep seeing electroforged Super Sports.. and that turns me off in terms of a performance machine.
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Old 08-18-14, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by RaleighSport
why is the Super Sport considered so good? I can understand for the 80's models, but I keep seeing electroforged Super Sports.. and that turns me off in terms of a performance machine.
The smooth joints at the corners of the frame may appear to be electroforged, but in fact are hand-brazed joints for the 4130 straight-gauge tubing. These frames are still on the heavy side, but were hand crafted in the same area as the Paramount in the Chicago factory. Therein lies much of their appeal.
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Old 08-18-14, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Hudson308
Actually, my neighbor has a mint 23" (?) Circuit hanging in his garage that I've been coveting ever since I spotted it. He won't sell at any reasonable price (yet!) because he knew it was special the minute he went to move it out of a house he flipped. Growing up in the Varsinental days, he'd never hoisted a bicycle anywhere near that light in his life.
You and he are part of a small minority. Doesn't mean you are wrong…but 99% of the cycling public and many C&V'ers gloss right over it. Nobody cares about it. Its under the radar like the PDGs
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Old 08-18-14, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by RaleighSport
OHhhh let's start talking about Tenax and how... oh wait. Relevant to the OP though, why is the Super Sport considered so good? I can understand for the 80's models, but I keep seeing electroforged Super Sports.. and that turns me off in terms of a performance machine.
60's and 70's SS is not electroforged but fillet brazed. It's a step up from the Varsity et al. But it's not butted tubing, so a step down from the Paramount and other racing bikes.

I don't know if the 70's model like mine is really coveted or not, it has a lot of declasse features. It was replaced by the Le Tour and is par with that for quality, weight, componentry. They don't seem very rare around here, either. Pre-bike-boom anything (like see the recent thread on a 60's SS) seems to be collectible, though. I can tell you I really like how it rides but I'm not sure how much of it is the frame and how much of it is the contact points.
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Old 08-18-14, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty
60's and 70's SS is not electroforged but fillet brazed. It's a step up from the Varsity et al. But it's not butted tubing, so a step down from the Paramount and other racing bikes.
While it was most definitely a step-down from the Reynolds 531 tubing used on the Paramounts, the 18ga 4130 Chrome-Molybdenum tubing Schwinn used on the fillet-brazed models was actually double-butted as the frames were built. Schwinn called these "internally lugged" frames. During fabrication 1-1/4" long sleeves were inserted into the ends of the tubes joining the head and hanger tubes. The tubes were slightly dimpled to secure the sleeves and the ends were then milled to provide a close mating surface to the head and hanger tubes. The butted tubes were then fillet-brazed to the head and hanger tubes using brass solder. Brass was used because the relatively low melting temperature of brass prevented overheating and weakening of the high-strength alloy tubing.

By comparison the electro-forged frames were constructed of thicker 1010 low-carbon steel tubing, with 16ga non-butted tubing used throughout except for the down tube, which was even thicker 15ga tubing. These were butt-welded electronically, however the actual welds were an inch or two away from the curved one-piece "joints". This put the actual welds in a much lower stress area and made for an incredibly strong design. In addition the low-carbon steel was not affected by the higher temperatures of the welding process.

Attached is a diagram showing the differences in the electro-forged (left) and fillet-brazed (right) frames at the head, showing the internal lugs on the 4130 fillet-brazed frames. This diagram and information came from a series of articles on Schwinn frame construction that appeared in the Schwinn Reporter (dealer newsletter) in 1973.

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