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If you could have one question magically answered about a bike in your stable...

Old 08-19-14, 11:44 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
That's exactly the kind of statement I'm talking about.
Its French. Logic need not apply.
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Old 08-19-14, 11:55 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox View Post
Its French. Logic need not apply.
I love French bikes, but I don't disagree.

Did only the French use the wooden plug?
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Old 08-19-14, 12:03 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
I believe these were used to keep water from entering the bottom of the steerer which is a bigger issue than water coming in from the top which tends to be better sealed. Similar plugs were used in older open seatposts to keep water from getting into the frame when the rear wheel threw water under the saddle.

I have plugged steerers with cork for this very reason as washout of the grease in the lower bearing is a serious problem and the upper bearings rarely suffer from this... the wood would also absorb moisture and the fact they shrink indicates a more porous / softer wood was used rather than a hardwood.

It also seems to be something you see on racing bicycles that are run without fenders... my 1957 PLX (fendered) has no plug and I have never come across these in fendered bicycles.
Very interesting post, 65er! When I worked at a Peugeot dealership in the early 1970s, we found a loose wooden plug in one of the shipping boxes, and a couple of the guys assumed it was a wine bottle cork. Your explanation makes more sense.
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Old 08-19-14, 12:09 PM
  #29  
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I discovered a wooden plug in my Motobecane when I installed the front brake. Apparently whoever disassembled it and sold the pieces piecemeal didn't notice, or didn't bother to try to remove it if he did. But that's not a question, is it?
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Old 08-19-14, 12:10 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by John E View Post
Very interesting post, 65er! When I worked at a Peugeot dealership in the early 1970s, we found a loose wooden plug in one of the shipping boxes, and a couple of the guys assumed it was a wine bottle cork. Your explanation makes more sense.
Wine corks tend to have markings on them unless the French builders were drinking the cheap stuff on the job and hiding the evidence...
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Old 08-19-14, 12:11 PM
  #31  
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New connotation for "put a plug in it!" or was it "put a pug in it!"
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Old 08-19-14, 12:14 PM
  #32  
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I'd like to know what happened to the original owner of my dead-mint Nuovo Sport, because he was dead within a week of buying it new in 1986, according to his brother in law, who sold me the bike about a year ago. I asked him about it as the deal was being made and he kind of evaded the subject, just reiterating that the poor guy never got a chance to ride it. I decided not to press the issue.

I'm having better luck with it than the original owner, having used it for a year now (on sunny days only) and probably about 300 miles on the clock.
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Old 08-19-14, 12:21 PM
  #33  
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It is rare that I know anything about the bicycles in my collection... I picked up my 1954 Raleigh Lenton from the original owner's estate and knew it's history as it was a one owner bicycle that was ridden and raced regularly.



My 1957 Peugeot PLX came to me with virtually no miles and it makes me wonder who would have purchased and imported this bicycle and then stored it away for more than 50 years... it was found on the street and I saved from the dumpster.

My only thought is that it might have been sold through an estate or garage sale (no record of it being stolen) and was then abandoned... someone had fitted north road bars and seized the brakes and it was just an old ten speed.
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Old 08-19-14, 12:23 PM
  #34  
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I'd like to know precisely when, and for whom, my mid-80s Proctor roadie was built (custom maker, Edmonton, AB - later made Proctor-Townsend frames, then went on to operate a MTB business of some sort on the Sunshine Coast in BC).

Nice 531C bike, 61.5 ST and 60TT and clearances for 30mm tires w/o fenders; very clean and tastefully understated.

While I would shave a centimeter or so off the TT if I was supplying the measurements to a builder myself, it's a wonderful bike.

While I obtained it as F/F/HS only, I have seen pics of the next-to-last owner's build and heard of its use - but I believe I am the 4th owner, with the immediately-previous one having never built it up and the original owner unknown to me, as is the year of production (though I can guess a range based on the tubing decal, at least).
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Old 08-19-14, 12:37 PM
  #35  
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I'd like to know what tubing my Eisentraut and my Ron Cooper were made from. No tubing decals on either, so my guess is they were both a mix picked by two of the best ever to wield a torch.

Mind you, this is idle curiosity and has nothing to do with second guessing. I'll probably never know, and I'm okay with that. If the tubing choices were good enough for Albert and Ron, they are more than good enough for me, and they are both tremendous bikes to ride. But I do wonder from time to time.
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Old 08-19-14, 12:41 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by mikemowbz View Post
I'd like to know precisely when, and for whom, my mid-80s Proctor roadie was built (custom maker, Edmonton, AB - later made Proctor-Townsend frames, then went on to operate a MTB business of some sort on the Sunshine Coast in BC).

Nice 531C bike, 61.5 ST and 60TT and clearances for 30mm tires w/o fenders; very clean and tastefully understated.

While I would shave a centimeter or so off the TT if I was supplying the measurements to a builder myself, it's a wonderful bike.

While I obtained it as F/F/HS only, I have seen pics of the next-to-last owner's build and heard of its use - but I believe I am the 4th owner, with the immediately-previous one having never built it up and the original owner unknown to me, as is the year of production (though I can guess a range based on the tubing decal, at least).
Post some pictures...

(Brad) Proctor badged bicycles were one off while Proctor / Townsend bicycles were often series built, Jim Moulden also worked at High Country as a builder before he went off and founded The Hardcore shop here where he focused on mountain bikes but did build some road bicycles.
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Old 08-19-14, 12:44 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by bikingshearer View Post
I'd like to know what tubing my Eisentraut and my Ron Cooper were made from. No tubing decals on either, so my guess is they were both a mix picked by two of the best ever to wield a torch.

Mind you, this is idle curiosity and has nothing to do with second guessing. I'll probably never know, and I'm okay with that. If the tubing choices were good enough for Albert and Ron, they are more than good enough for me, and they are both tremendous bikes to ride. But I do wonder from time to time.
My Ron Cooper is also a mystery as to what tubing was used but like my partner Arvon, it seems that the tube decals and branding were less important than getting the right mix of tubes and building a bicycle that performed to it's owner's specifications.
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Old 08-19-14, 12:48 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
Post some pictures...

(Brad) Proctor badged bicycles were one off while Proctor / Townsend bicycles were often series built, Jim Moulden also worked at High Country as a builder before he went off and founded The Hardcore shop here where he focused on mountain bikes but did build some road bicycles.
Numerous pics in this thread - originally posted when I obtained the frame:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...nd-chance.html

I think I might have posted a pic of this bike in one of your threads touching on Proctor in the past, Sixty Fiver.
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Old 08-19-14, 12:50 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
My Ron Cooper is also a mystery as to what tubing was used but like my partner Arvon, it seems that the tube decals and branding were less important than getting the right mix of tubes and building a bicycle that performed to it's owner's specifications.
I agree 100%. Ron Cooper and Albert Eisentraut could have built up better frames out of gas pipe than many builders could out of top-drawer tubing. The tubing does make a difference, but the design and building skills are more important.
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Old 08-19-14, 01:01 PM
  #40  
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It does stiffen up the join, not the steel, is that too difficult to comprehend? That is why it is in there, whether it works or not, or you believe it or not it is not a conspiracy to gaslight you, it was a common practice.



Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
That's exactly the kind of statement I'm talking about.
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Old 08-19-14, 01:17 PM
  #41  
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My first car was a 1956 Chevy 210 4dr(whatever) with a 3 speed on the columnn and a 265 under the hood. I thought it would be cool to raise the back end (rake) by sticking some 2x4 blocks in the spring hangers. Kind of like a piece of wood between two pieces of metal......Worked for a block down the road.
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Old 08-19-14, 01:30 PM
  #42  
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Well as long as it's all hocus pocus and genies and all, how about time travel? I'd like to step back to the corner of the Motobecane plant and watch my TC being made. I suppose I could settle for a name and a couple pictures.
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Old 08-19-14, 01:43 PM
  #43  
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I'd really like to know who brought this Sannow to the USA (because presumably they'd also be able to satisfy my curiousity about the tubing and age of the frame).

Which Sannow? This one:


My thread asking about it is here in case you have some knowledge to add:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ut-sannow.html
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Old 08-19-14, 01:49 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by mikemowbz View Post
Numerous pics in this thread - originally posted when I obtained the frame:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...nd-chance.html

I think I might have posted a pic of this bike in one of your threads touching on Proctor in the past, Sixty Fiver.
If the headset was original it points to a build done between 83-87 as do the older style decals... it does seem that in later years more frames were "Proctor / Townsend" and the frames were built with 753 (racing) while 531 and 531 C was still used a great deal on touring and rando frames.

At least with these, the tubing decals were an important selling point and while Proctor and Townsend were doing their thing, Arvon was building tandems and touring frames with tubing that continues to be custom drawn in most cases.

With Arvon frames I have access to the complete record book of builds and continue to work with Arvon who also has a good record of what was getting built at High Country as he supplied them with hubs and partnered with them during and another local builder to build bicycles and components for the 1984 Olympics.

I have only heard of the existence of these Olympic bicycles (they won silver) and suspect they are being kept by their riders.

It would be nice to hook up with Brad and see if he could provide a better history as many people would like to know the origins of their bicycles.
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Old 08-19-14, 02:04 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by vjp View Post
It does stiffen up the join, not the steel, is that too difficult to comprehend? That is why it is in there, whether it works or not, or you believe it or not it is not a conspiracy to gaslight you, it was a common practice.
It's not the least bit difficult to comprehend, but I do find it difficult to believe. It was a common practice, at least on some French bikes. My question is why it was done. Using wood to stiffen a joint in steel doesn't seem plausible. You are free to believe it and you don't need to try to convince me, especially if you're going to get all worked up about it. It's something I've wondered about but I haven't lost any sleep.

I've never heard "gaslight" used as a verb before, but I found it in the Urban Dictionary.
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Old 08-19-14, 02:26 PM
  #46  
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I also have a wooden plug in my 1972 PX-10 and wondered about it and never got a clear answer.

I have always wondered why there are eyelets on my PX-10 which was essentially a race bike, not that I mind because I have rode it with fenders and racks and does make a good touring bike.
I usually ride it without fenders/racks but it is nice to have the option.
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Old 08-19-14, 03:00 PM
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You asked a question, I have answered it. Believe it or not, whether it works or not, that IS the reason there is a wooden dowel in your steerer.

Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
It's not the least bit difficult to comprehend, but I do find it difficult to believe. It was a common practice, at least on some French bikes. My question is why it was done. Using wood to stiffen a joint in steel doesn't seem plausible. You are free to believe it and you don't need to try to convince me, especially if you're going to get all worked up about it. It's something I've wondered about but I haven't lost any sleep.

I've never heard "gaslight" used as a verb before, but I found it in the Urban Dictionary.
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Old 08-19-14, 03:56 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by due ruote View Post
I'd like to step back to the corner of the Motobecane plant and watch my TC being made.
My ex-racer friend, a fellow musician and the guy who gave me the Masi frame, took one look at my Motobecane frame and said "That never saw the inside of the Motobecane factory. I bet with enough digging you could figure out who made it." I dunno', they may have had some master craftsman squirreled away in a back corner. Or maybe not.

Was I'd really like to know is why the catalogs said Team Champion and the TT decals said Champion Team.
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Old 08-19-14, 05:57 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by jimmuller View Post
My ex-racer friend, a fellow musician and the guy who gave me the Masi frame, took one look at my Motobecane frame and said "That never saw the inside of the Motobecane factory. I bet with enough digging you could figure out who made it." I dunno', they may have had some master craftsman squirreled away in a back corner. Or maybe not.

Was I'd really like to know is why the catalogs said Team Champion and the TT decals said Champion Team.
Someone must know who made them but I've never really heard anything definitive.

My '78 says Team Champion btw.
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Old 08-19-14, 06:02 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by jimmuller View Post
Was I'd really like to know is why the catalogs said Team Champion and the TT decals said Champion Team.
I think I remember reading that this came down to the market in which the bike was sold, but it's quit possible that I'm wrong.
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