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28t too low for Nuovo Record RD?

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28t too low for Nuovo Record RD?

Old 08-21-14, 02:42 AM
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SolBadguy
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28t too low for Nuovo Record RD?

I just got a set of clincher wheels for my Torpado for commuting (it came with sew-ups). They did not come with a freewheel. I was hoping to get a 6- or 7-speed with a lower gear than the 6-speed Regina 14-23 on the stock wheels for hill climbing. I wanted to get this Shimano 13-28:

Shimano 13-28 Thread-on 7-speed Freewheel - Harris Cyclery bicycle shop - West Newton, Massachusetts

I'm worried the Nuovo Record rear derailer won't be able to shift to the 28t cog. Does anyone here know if it will work or not? If not, could it damage the RD if I were to try to shift?
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Old 08-21-14, 02:57 AM
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I am using a Nuovo Record RD with a suntour 13-28 6 speed freewheel. The large/largest 2 cogs combo won't work because there's not enough chain wrap capacity. I am running a 54/42/36 NR crankset just for reference.
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Old 08-21-14, 03:30 AM
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I think the max it is designed for is a 26 with max wrap of 26t as well. Some guys can make it work, perhaps they have a slightly long hanger or just push the wheel back, but I am not sure I would exceed 26T unless you find a reference to 28t max.

My Triomphe is supposed to take a 30 but it seemed to struggle with a 28t.

While Antieverything's set may work, I would never advise anyone to take a bike on the road that will not shift into every gear. While you not supposed to use the 'big and big' you should be able to shift into it because if you forget.... bad ugly things can happen.
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Old 08-21-14, 04:37 AM
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i have it (nr+28t) working well on two 5-speeds (with 52/42t double) and a 6-speed as well. the axle is in the middle of the drops on all. two are campy drops, the other is simplex.

i wouldn't try a 7-speed, though, with a 28t big cog. it may work fine, but i'd go 6-speed.

i bought a 7-speed for another nr rd recently, and have been fairly happy with the 13-26t i bought (combined with a 9-speed chain).
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Old 08-21-14, 05:24 AM
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According to past reading, the trick to making it work as well as it can is to put the rear axle as far back as possible in the horizontal dropouts and make the chain short but long enough. You might just want to go with a different derailleur that can shift flawlessly for more teeth and put that pretty NR in a box for later.
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Old 08-21-14, 05:43 AM
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It'll work. Just a little tricky to set up properly
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Old 08-21-14, 05:53 AM
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It has worked fine for me on several occasions (even on Flemish cobblestones), but always with 6sp and Campagnolo dropouts.
postretroronde1 by Zieleman, on Flickr
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Old 08-21-14, 06:06 AM
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If it doesn't work, you can get longer cages for the NR RD: Soma Nuova Retro Derailleur Cage Plates
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Old 08-21-14, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
If it doesn't work, you can get longer cages for the NR RD: Soma Nuova Retro Derailleur Cage Plates
I would not expect great results with a 7 block and a 28. I do have a last generation Super Record with this set up and it works well.
One thing that I don't think has been addressed is the Nuovo Record derailleur geometry changed over time. The earlier ones Patent 72 and before, will be a challenge to get a 28t working with a 5 block.
The parallelogram is closer to the upper pivot mounting bolt.
The easiest will be the last versions with the parallelogram spring trapped by the lower parallelogram pivot and having the jockey cage assemble the same way as the late Super Record with the jockey wheel bolts that enter from the back and have a nut visible from the right hand side of the bike.

Chain length and axle placement are key to get best results for what you have. Rootboy's image is a good visual explainer of where I would start. (could have used a wider image to show the chainrings and get a feel for the chain length).
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Old 08-21-14, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Antieverything View Post
I am using a Nuovo Record RD with a suntour 13-28 6 speed freewheel. The large/largest 2 cogs combo won't work because there's not enough chain wrap capacity. I am running a 54/42/36 NR crankset just for reference.
If you want to run a combination where the RD doesn't have sufficient chain wrap I'd suggest setting it up so the large/large combination just works even though that means some of the smallest combinations let the chain hang loose. The latter situation won't break anything, but accidentally shifting into a large combination with the chain being too short is likely to do so.
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Old 08-21-14, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
If you want to run a combination where the RD doesn't have sufficient chain wrap I'd suggest setting it up so the large/large combination just works even though that means some of the smallest combinations let the chain hang loose. The latter situation won't break anything, but accidentally shifting into a large combination with the chain being too short is likely to do so.
And sometimes one wants too much. One thing that could be tried is that the jockey cage has alternate spring ports, so moving the cage to a more wrap static setting will improve things a small bit but would be harder on the spring when cross chaining the big ring to the larger cogs, but with a 3 x 5 one should not be doing that anyway, the probable duplicate gears render this most likely redundant.
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Old 08-21-14, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Chain length and axle placement are key to get best results for what you have. Rootboy's image is a good visual explainer of where I would start. (could have used a wider image to show the chainrings and get a feel for the chain length).
Probably not that helpful an image but, I don't have one with the chain on the big ring. Also, if I remember correctly, that big ring may be a 50, which may have a small affect on the set up. Though I am never in the big/big combo, obviously. I think I may have cut this chain length based on big ring and next to lowest gear on the rear.

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Old 08-21-14, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Antieverything View Post
I am using a Nuovo Record RD with a suntour 13-28 6 speed freewheel. The large/largest 2 cogs combo won't work because there's not enough chain wrap capacity. I am running a 54/42/36 NR crankset just for reference.
"Back when" P-15 Paramounts came w/ that Campagnolo triple crank set-up and we found in the field that the Shimano Crane GS derailleur offered the best performance, particularly compared to the miserable whatever-best-forgotten Campag long cage derail that was OEM. The factory adopted the Crane GS as a "Schwinn Approved" model and we never had functional complaints from customers again. Using a triple design derail w/ a triple crank, that's just crazy......

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Old 08-21-14, 10:42 AM
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<C> Rally I got way back is still functioning like day 1.. I'm not demanding gear changes as fast as a light switch .. never was.

this retrofit cage will wrap the chain length difference on a triple (just lacks the brass thread insert of the original)

Soma Nuova Retro Derailleur Cage Plates
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Old 08-21-14, 10:50 AM
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I took another approach by replacing the stock cages on the NR derailleur with the cages from a NR Super Record (SR is rated at 28t). Vintage and Ergo Campagnolo: Building a Better Looking Vintage Super Record Derailleur

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Old 08-21-14, 10:56 AM
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On my Grandis, the bike came set up like this; 14-28T five speed on back 52-40 up front. Everything worked together fine. That's a Pat 74 NR derailleur.

(as-found pic)
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Old 08-21-14, 11:00 AM
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The easiest way to get to 28T may be half-step, perhaps something like 46-42/13-28, which yields a range of 40 to 96. You probably want to use the smallest outer chainring you can stand, to minimize chain wrap requirements.
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Old 08-21-14, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman View Post
On my Grandis, the bike came set up like this; 14-28T five speed on back 52-40 up front. Everything worked together fine. That's a Pat 74 NR derailleur.
...
Interesting -- that is a classic 1.5-step system with a nice ratiometric progression from 40 to 100 gear inches. I'll bet it does push the NR's limits on both wrap and low cog size.
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Old 08-21-14, 11:12 AM
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Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have had no issues getting NR derailleurs to work with 5 and 6 speed freewheels with a 28T big cog. Didn't have to do anything special, it just worked fine.
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Old 08-21-14, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman View Post
On my Grandis, the bike came set up like this; 14-28T five speed on back 52-40 up front. Everything worked together fine. That's a Pat 74 NR derailleur.

(as-found pic)
If I recall that Green Grandis has a Campagnolo Record crank set…. 144 bcd, no 40t inner ring there…. maybe recount.
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Old 08-21-14, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have had no issues getting NR derailleurs to work with 5 and 6 speed freewheels with a 28T big cog. Didn't have to do anything special, it just worked fine.
Some mechanics are blessed.
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Old 08-21-14, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Some mechanics are blessed.
Yes... But by whom?

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Old 08-21-14, 03:10 PM
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That would make a good tat'
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Old 08-21-14, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
If I recall that Green Grandis has a Campagnolo Record crank set…. 144 bcd, no 40t inner ring there….
I was going to ask him to find me one.
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Old 08-21-14, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
If it doesn't work, you can get longer cages for the NR RD: Soma Nuova Retro Derailleur Cage Plates

That might increase the wrap but won't change the relation of the jockey pulley to the cogs.
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