arimajol 

I tried to remove a Suntour Winner freewheel last night. I was using the proper Park Tool freewheel removal tool and clamped the quick release down on top. Even doing everything (I think) correctly, the tool took a gouge out of the notch in the freewheel! You can see in the photo it says "TENT" instead of "PATENT."

How did it do that? Maybe it had been there before and I didn't notice. Regardless...how the heck do I get this thing off now? I tried repeatedly using the clamped down quick release to keep the tool in place but it just bends the skewer. Any advice greatly appreciated!

SJX426 

I am sure others will have good response but the first thing that comes to mind is to explore the possible use of a dremel tool to flatten out the notch surfaces.

The second is to disassemble and use a pipe wrench on the inner hub, which should be all that is left. You certainly don't want to use it again.

The third is to send the wheel to Pastorbob!

Lascauxcaveman 

Been there, done that.

What I did to fix it was

a*) remove axel and bearings from the hub
b) used my dremel to square up the rounded-off notches on the freewheel
c) clamped a flat bar-stock tool (bottom bracket wrench) horizontally in the vise, sticking up about 1/2"
d) lined up the edge of the re-squared freewheel notches on the edge of the wrench
e) spun off the freewheel in the usual way

*1a) swore a lot¹

¹ I mean a lot

arimajol 

I've already got 1a) covered, trust me. Thanks for the advice! I found some more information after posting. I should be able to figure something out.

Sir_Name 

Did you clamp the tool to the wheel (with skewer) then clamp the tool into a vice to twist the wheel off the freewheel?

Were both teeth of the tool fully seated into the splines of the freewheel body? If not that may explain your now bent skewer and why only one of the splines was damaged (only one of the two splines may have been engaged). Can you get the tool to fully seat into the good spline with the nuts/axle removed? If so I'd try again with the above method ensuring everything is properly mated and snug before turning to a dremel (use a different skewer this time). Hopefully there's some grease on the hub threads. I wouldn't reuse the freewheel once off (or would ask Pastor Bob to switch the good bits to a body in good condition).

I've yet to have problems with two spline freewheels, so this is pure conjecture...

JohnDThompson 

At one of the shops I worked for, we used a ginormous EZ-Out clamped in a bench vise after removing the axle from the hub.

juvela

yes indeed, an Ace nr. 8 is just the right tool for this job. this type of tool is also known as a screw extractor.

non-fixie 

Did just that, after I saw an LBS use one of those. "Frrrrrr!". FW off. Half a second. Wow.

Chombi

I assume that this is not one of those Aluminum Suntour Microlite FWs? (I think those had more than two notches and uses a remover with more prongs to match......) People always strip those when they try removing them with two prong removers.
If that's the case, it's surprising that you still damaged the notches with the right removal tool and skewer clamping down on it.
I've removed really tight two notched FWs before with pretty much all the strength I could muster, and using a skewer too, and I never got close to damaging the notches. Most likely old damge or defect at the notch (crack) that was there before you removed it.

dddd

I suspect that the axle locknut may have interfered with the particular freewheel tool's ability to engage fully and squarely.

Different versions of the two-pronged tool have different ID profiles.

Looks like it would be difficult to get a Dremel to grind within the space around the lockring since the notch ring doesn't appear to protrude.

The tool is likely damaged as well. It needs square driving surfaces.

If the outer freewheel body is first removed, then the notches can be restored to square, then the tool applied with QR holding the tool squarely to the full depth of the notches.
Confirm first that the locknut isn't causing interference with full and square engagement between the tool and the inner-body notches.

rootboy 

Or, it could have been either the tool, or misalignment of the tool. One thing I don't like about the Park two prong tool is that the prongs are fairly paltry. It is not a high quality tool. I prefer the VAR remover. None of which helps the OP now, however.

Lascauxcaveman 

Come to think of it, that's how I got the notches to protrude up enough to square them off with the Dremel.

I caused myself a major PITA by not knowing the skewer trick to hold the freewheel good and square on the freewheel remover tool. Having previously removed only multi-splined Shimano freewheels, with plenty of grab and no real need for the skewer to hold the two together, I'd never thought of that trick.

RoadGuy

When using the skewer to hold the tool in place, it's important to remove the springs. Leaving the springs on the axle will prevent you from tightening the quick release enough to keep the tool from mis-aligning and slipping.

rootboy 

At this point, if it were me, I would remove that lock nut, and all the guts of the hub, even at the risk of getting filings in to the hub shell. Then go after it with a Dremel with the proper bit. Since there isn't an ideal bit, with that lock ring in place, I'd use the closest one I could find. A narrow, square bottomed cylindrical bit with cutting flutes on its end and sides. Dremel sells a carbide bit that is a 1/8 inch diameter shank with cutting flutes on it. As I remember, without looking at mine, it has cutting flutes on its end too.

A ticklish operation for sure but you might be able to square it up enough to get the tool to work.

Lascauxcaveman 

^ This is what I did, essentially, but the 'bit' I used was the Dremel mandrel w/cutoff wheel. Easy-peasy, once you've taken off the cogs and therefore have plenty of room to work.

Chombi

Calling Pastor Bob..... Pastor Bob.....

dddd

Just a warning about using the carbide bits, they can send thousands of almost microscopic "needles" flying in all directions, which is dangerous in too many ways to list.

pastorbobnlnh 

Sorry about the delay. I was traveling a good part of yesterday and of course didn't have internet access.

There are multiple challenges associated with these dang New Winner freewheels.



As you can see, they use the adjustable bearing race/retaining ring which requires the special Suntour tool to open them up and service them. This makes dis-assembly on the hub very challenging. To do so, you need to remove the top cog(s), and I have met many a New Winner where the cogs do not budge and chainwhips and cog teeth break. To complicate the challenge further, I'd guess about a third to half of the two piece retaining ring/bearing race WILL NOT un-thread. Yes the percent is that high.

For all of the above reasons I recommend that these New Winners never be purchased, even if NOS. And if you do succeed in removing it, immediately trash it, or send it to me to attempt cog removal (I have about a 40% success rate). Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but these freewheels are truly a PITA and not worth salvaging.

rootboy 

Thanks for the heads up. I'm curious though, is this something inherent in the way carbide cuts, as opposed to high speed steel, etc?

SJX426 

Impressive data points! I have at least two of these if not one more. Fortunately I have been able to reuse them and remove cogs. The first effort was challenging, however. My assembly includes that grey stuff that my grey stuff in my head can't remember the name of! AAAAAH anti sieze!

1987

I would say the same for old Regina freewheels with tiny notches and where all cogs are threaded on. The cogs can be incredibly stuck. I had to use a very long steel tube for leverage around my chainwip. And on the second larest cog the chainwip broke. And the weak noteches are just a joke, you smudge them like butter.

pastorbobnlnh 

I've had better luck removing the threaded cogs on the Regina, Atom, and Maillard vintage freewheels from the '60s and '70s. It helps to have the special VAR vise for the two largest cogs.

The two notch Regina freewheels are really pathetic. The metal is too soft and the notches are not "beefy" enough.

shipwreck

I had one of these give out on me on the road, luckily not to far from home. After walking and coasting the six miles back, I attempted to remove it with my park remover, which as Rootboy says is pretty cheesy. Wallowed out the cassette notches, then completely tore off the two prongs, reground some prongs, broke them off. Then proceeded to break a chainwhip, fix it and break it again, bloody my knuckles and generally get pretty mad.

Ended up getting my stick welder out and welded the whole assembly solid, cranked a big vise over the cogs, and twisted it off that way. I was a little concerned with all that heat, but after the hot walk and two hours trying to get it off right had stopped caring. Barbaric, but the wheel is still in service, with one of my hoarded shimano 30 tooth cassettes.

Thought I would add that I have removed a few these, with this one being the only real pain I have ever really had.

Chombi

I only broke a chainwhip once, and it was when I was unscrewing cogs off a Regina FW....
I never seem to have the same problems with my Maillards, Spidels and my Zeus.

dddd

I saw one of these freewheels, in lightly-used condition, sell for about $150 last week on Ebay.

Was a six-speed with 13-26t ratios.

These things are really prized by some!

I only ride with Shimano UG and Suntour freewheels, having experienced the hassles described by pastorbob with the old Euro freewheels.

An exception is the Cyclo64 and Cyclo72 freewheels I use on my French-threaded hubs.

I have no problem removing Suntour 2-notch freewheels that I have installed myself, using generous grease on all the threads.

Although I ride in very hilly terrain, I don't use chainrings much smaller than 40t, and am at only 145lbs.
No huge cogs either, so all of this limits the tightening torque that is applied while riding.