The Way Of The (Mafac) Racer
09-03-14, 10:11 AM
#26
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
The straddle cable was adjustable at the caliper arms which allowed for fine tuning the brake's power and feel. Constructeurs like Herse and Singer actually preferred to install Racers due to their "tuneability" in preference to the later Competitions, 2000s and 2000 GTs with their fixed straddle cable lengths. When added to brazed on pivots, Mafacs are formidable stoppers. Early Racers had brass lined pivots and brass washers but the 1960s French love for everything Delrin resulted in the red plastic pivots we are all familiar with. The photos below show my current setup on my 1960s Bertin C 37
Sixty Fiver is right about the Kool Stop replacement pads. They slide right into the stock shoes and make an excellent upgrade from hard, dry OEM pads. They even have the brand name hidden inside the holder so you have an uncompromised restoration, if that is your goal, with brakes that actually work! If you ditch the whippy, flexy OEM Mafac cable hanger for a robust steel one, you will find the brakes are greatly improved as well. Racers and their Mafac kin are one of the few instances of old kit being as good or better than new.
Sixty Fiver is right about the Kool Stop replacement pads. They slide right into the stock shoes and make an excellent upgrade from hard, dry OEM pads. They even have the brand name hidden inside the holder so you have an uncompromised restoration, if that is your goal, with brakes that actually work! If you ditch the whippy, flexy OEM Mafac cable hanger for a robust steel one, you will find the brakes are greatly improved as well. Racers and their Mafac kin are one of the few instances of old kit being as good or better than new.
The Zeus 2000 brakes are also exquisite, a little rare, and cost many times as much as a set of Mafac Racers.
09-03-14, 10:20 AM
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I actually like center pulls. I currently don't have any Mafac's but did on my Peugeot. If your brakes are center pulls, either Mafac or Universal, remember they are dual pivot! As stated, with the right setup they are often equal to many modern brakes. How do I know? I don't, it just sounded authoritative and thought it would keep this thread alive!
09-03-14, 11:28 AM
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I just replaced the Dia Compes on one of my bike with a NOS set of MAFACs, and even with the dried out, old pads, I've never used a set of brakes with so much stopping power. No squeal once I got the toe-in set correctly. Now I'm just waiting for pay day so I can get a set of NOS hoods I've found someone selling on their site (Which I will share once I safely have my set!)
09-03-14, 12:21 PM
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One thing that I don't like about Mafac Racers, but I think is inherent with centerpulls, is the need for a pretty fancy cable hanger if you want to have easy adjustment and quick release. Thanks to VO, they are only $10 and a click away, but the odds of finding one just rooting around in the co-op parts bin are not high. Dia-Compe #1254 Cable Stop with Quick Release
(I usually set my pads very close to the rims, so that unhooking the straddle cable is rather hard on the fingers.)
Does anyone prettify their Racers? Drilling, painting, engraving?
(I usually set my pads very close to the rims, so that unhooking the straddle cable is rather hard on the fingers.)
Does anyone prettify their Racers? Drilling, painting, engraving?
09-03-14, 01:18 PM
#30
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Perhaps not very cost effective once you figure in the tooling, etc. Also, that little metal tab at the rear to hold the half hood down to the lever body might be tricky to deal with in manufacturing. I suspect if they could sell fifty thousand pairs, some outfit might try making them. But there is a relatively limited demand.
09-03-14, 02:08 PM
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I like that straddle cable suggestion.
Since centerpull canti's have been mentioned, this was the heavy duty tandem set-up circa 1980's. This ride has seen its share of heavy loads, including trailer. The right lever pulls both front and rear cantilevers and the left lever for a vented drum. To this day, its decent but if ever a new tandem came our way, would welcome hydraulic disc.
The lever boots have survived quite well. Not so much for the other Mafac type levers with 1/2 boot. Once they start curling, I just tear them off and go without.
Since centerpull canti's have been mentioned, this was the heavy duty tandem set-up circa 1980's. This ride has seen its share of heavy loads, including trailer. The right lever pulls both front and rear cantilevers and the left lever for a vented drum. To this day, its decent but if ever a new tandem came our way, would welcome hydraulic disc.
The lever boots have survived quite well. Not so much for the other Mafac type levers with 1/2 boot. Once they start curling, I just tear them off and go without.
Last edited by crank_addict; 09-03-14 at 02:12 PM.
09-03-14, 04:46 PM
#33
elcraft
Gee, and I thought that the black hoods indicated an affordable Campy clone lever set. Would it be sacrilegious to use Weinman levers with Mafacs? The Weinmann/Dia Compe levers are ubiquitous, unlike virtually anything else. All the Mafac lever sets that I can get my hands on are the Half hooded type in usually poor condition. Not to hijack the thread, but, what non-aero lever sets have reasonabl aftermarket hoods available.
09-03-14, 06:02 PM
#34
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I'm in the process of trying to make a very old and abused set of Mafac Racers at least presentable again. The bike was left outside for decades, and the half hoods were very brittle, dried out, and deteriorated. I wasn't sure if they could be salvaged, but I recalled a couple threads about restoring these hoods:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ake-hoods.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ate-renew.html
Those threads recommended silicone caulking followed by Plasti-Dip. I still have a little clean-up around the edges and maybe a couple more coats of Plasti-Dip to apply, but I'm hoping these hoods hold up. The levers polished up nicely, even though I just did a quick light polish.
If you scroll through the links above, you'll also see some very nice DIY leather options. If the Plasti-Dip solution doesn't hold, I may try to cut out and apply some leather on top of the original half-hoods.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ake-hoods.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ate-renew.html
Those threads recommended silicone caulking followed by Plasti-Dip. I still have a little clean-up around the edges and maybe a couple more coats of Plasti-Dip to apply, but I'm hoping these hoods hold up. The levers polished up nicely, even though I just did a quick light polish.
If you scroll through the links above, you'll also see some very nice DIY leather options. If the Plasti-Dip solution doesn't hold, I may try to cut out and apply some leather on top of the original half-hoods.
09-03-14, 06:38 PM
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all of these are fitted with the standard, non-aero style Cane Creek hoods, which come in both black and gum colors.
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09-03-14, 06:50 PM
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09-05-14, 12:36 AM
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What is the ideal straddle cable angle/length? Do you prefer shorter or longer straddle cables?
09-05-14, 03:10 AM
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cane creek hoods fit my non plastic mafac levers a little better. these are the plastic ones:
i'm batting 500 on racer center-pulls. on my first peugeot, an '80 pkn10, they performed exceptionally well. on my current '73 pr10 ... not so much.
i'm batting 500 on racer center-pulls. on my first peugeot, an '80 pkn10, they performed exceptionally well. on my current '73 pr10 ... not so much.
09-05-14, 04:08 AM
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For centerpulls, shorter gives you more stopping power.
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09-05-14, 04:23 AM
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"For centerpulls, shorter gives you more stopping power."
is that possible? is it even a quantifiable benefit worth measuring?
is that possible? is it even a quantifiable benefit worth measuring?
09-05-14, 04:39 PM
#41
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In my experience, any decent brake design, set up and working according to design intent, has enough braking force to lock the front wheel on dry pavement with a typically loaded bike, which is all you need. Tandem bikes and bikes for heavily loaded touring may need heavier duty brakes, which they typically get.
09-05-14, 05:22 PM
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What??? Only 2 wheels?
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I have done the math for this and posted it, and it generally creates noisy responses. The bottom line is it depends on the position of the anchor point at the end of the straddle cable w.r.t. the cantilever pivot. Since the end of the straddle cable is below the pivot on Mafacs, you get more stopping power with a longer cable. For typical centerpulls you get more stopping power with a shorter cable, but it does create more stress in the lever arms themselves so if they are flexible they may deform more. I don't know that any do, but it's a "feature" of the math.
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09-05-14, 05:23 PM
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I wonder if Racers require more lever pull and the reach on the levers is necessary. I set up my Racers with Tektro 340 levers and I have to go through most of the lever travel to get any real braking power. I've got mountain pads installed as close to the arms as possible. The pad to rim clearance is close enough to have to use the lever quick release before being able to release the straddle cable. The straddle wire is fairly short. Maybe the extra lever pull makes up for the flex in the calipers and gives the brakes more modulation? I'm no expert on Racers, just my observation. Maybe the real experts have an opinion?
09-05-14, 05:32 PM
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One feature of any brake, straddle cable or not, is this: There is a trade-off between braking power and required displacement of the lever. If the mechanical advantage of either the lever or the caliper is greater then you'll get more force on the pads, but the pads won't move as far. This means you must adjust them closer to the rim or else be prepared to nearly bottom out the lever. At least with centerpulls you can change that mechanical advantage. The shorter the cable the greater the mechanical advantage.
I don't know about Tektro levers or their calipers (except that I have double-pivot Tektros on one bike and they are awesome). They may be designed with a different amount of cable displacement than old-style brakes. With what you describe, too much mechanical advantage, you might try using longer straddle cables. With Mafacs you can adjust that. With Weinmanns there are different length cables available.
I don't know about Tektro levers or their calipers (except that I have double-pivot Tektros on one bike and they are awesome). They may be designed with a different amount of cable displacement than old-style brakes. With what you describe, too much mechanical advantage, you might try using longer straddle cables. With Mafacs you can adjust that. With Weinmanns there are different length cables available.
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09-05-14, 05:48 PM
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@jimmuller: Thanks for the reminder. A quick review of Sheldon Brown's cantilever brake geometry article just backed up your suggestion to lengthen the transverse cable. A quick quote from Sheldon's article: "On touring bikes with high-mechanical-advantage "æro" brake levers, excessive mechanical advantage may cause the brake to run out of lever travel, so that the lever hits against the handlebar. Shimano makes an extra-wide cable yoke for such applications, but you can achieve the same effect by lengthening the transverse cable, unless the bike has such a small frame that you run out of room."
09-05-14, 06:34 PM
#46
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Bertinjim, can you give a little more detail? I'm guessing you mean the parts that mount to the head tube and saddle binder bolt? Didn't occur to me that those would be spongy.
09-05-14, 06:50 PM
#48
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I'm also a fan of MAFAC brakes. I like a short yoke cable. It increases leverage, which decreases the amount of force required at the lever. It also makes taking the yoke off harder.
MAFAC levers are more sturdy than most. Very crash-worthy. But they're not that comfortable, and as noted above, they are designed for large hands. I have large hands, so it's not a problem for me. As it happens, I don't have MAFAC levers mounted on any of my bikes.
You can polish these brakes pretty well with metal polish such as Simichrome. That's all I've ever done.
Getting the pads to hit the rim at the right angle is definitely more involved than with other brakes, but I've become used to it, so I don't mind.
As Click and Clack said, Europeans don't mind if their brakes squeal, as long as they stop; Americans don't care if their brakes stop, as long as they don't squeal.
MAFAC levers are more sturdy than most. Very crash-worthy. But they're not that comfortable, and as noted above, they are designed for large hands. I have large hands, so it's not a problem for me. As it happens, I don't have MAFAC levers mounted on any of my bikes.
You can polish these brakes pretty well with metal polish such as Simichrome. That's all I've ever done.
Getting the pads to hit the rim at the right angle is definitely more involved than with other brakes, but I've become used to it, so I don't mind.
As Click and Clack said, Europeans don't mind if their brakes squeal, as long as they stop; Americans don't care if their brakes stop, as long as they don't squeal.
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09-05-14, 07:39 PM
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"I like a short yoke cable. It increases leverage, which decreases the amount of force required at the lever. It also makes taking the yoke off harder."
but if you don't have a quick release on the lever nor hanger, a longer yoke can act as one.
but if you don't have a quick release on the lever nor hanger, a longer yoke can act as one.
09-05-14, 07:50 PM
#50
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I'm one of the few that actually likes adjusting post mount brake shoes. It's a sickness
.,,,,BD
.,,,,BD
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