Reynolds 525 is AISI 4130 chromoly, and Reynolds 725 is heat treated 4130 chromoly. I won't comment except to say it's pretty easy for anyone to compare physical properties of the stainless alloys in my table above to the physical properties of Reynolds 525 and 725 (and other Reynolds alloys like 853) in the Reynolds chart below.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7...psde02b1c4.jpg

As Scooper has posted, the specs for 953 and it's ilk are exceptional in any measure for steel frame materials.
Light, strong, amenable to a variety of construction techniques and Shiny!
Noting wrong w/ any of that as the modern SS may well produce the finest riding steel framesets in production history.

No one that I recall was terribly concerned during the Titanium "fad" that the finish was not enameled & pin-striped.
Same. same.

-Bandera

SS bikes (in the 80's) used to weigh like boat anchors. Not sure why, but they did, so most of them did not attract much attention from buyers and were sometimes considered as "gimmicks" by some, as they weren't cheap either. I highly suspect the newest stainless steel tubesets are much lighter these days, so stainless is defintely a much more attractive alternative to other steels. for tubesets today.
As already noted, I also noticed that stainless "work hardens" much quicker/easier than "regular" steel when you use tools on them like a drill. Many a times did people at my work burn up drill bits drilling into stainless. Not sure if that is the case with today's stainless steel tubesets.

While this was better described before, what makes stainless steel stainless, is steel with the addition of 10%-20% chromium; ie chrome and sometimes nickle is also added. Then there is the addition of other trace metals that give the individual characteristics to different tube-sets. While I might be wrong here, it is my understanding the reason 953 stainless is so difficult to work with is because it is 1.5% titanium, which complicates the welding process.

Ok, there is a certain aesthetic to a SS frame, given. It can be lighter, good. Stiffer, yup; but I thought a good frame needed to be compliant in order to "plane".

Cannondale sold me on the stiffer than Cro-Mo, Aluminum frame in the early 80's. They told me I'd climb faster with less energy loss to the frame...I didn't, but I got numb hands... which I could of fixed with a carbon fork had I waited 25 years.

Call me a Retro grouch, Sarcastic SOB, what have you. I'd have a SS frame made cuz it looks cool, the rest I think is mostly smoke and mirrors for the most part.

Just in case you get the wrong idea, I'd love to have a SS frame, especially from this builder

http://static.squarespace.com/static...g?format=1500w

So if anyone wants to drop some serious coin on a mediocre collection of vintage British iron so I can fund this build, shoot me a PM

[MENTION=209894]Velognome[/MENTION], I met that builder at the Bike Cult show a couple of weeks ago. He brought some of his bikes. Gorgeous.

Just because the material is harder and has high strength doesn't mean the builder can't build you a frame that planes, if that is what you want. One additional benefit of a custom is that (depending on the builder) you get a lifetime warranty in materials and workmanship.

There are many types of stainless steel. I use to assemble very large,huge , Food Processing, packaging, Machines. It took three months to build one. We used all Food Grade Stainless. One bolt 1/4x20x 2" cost $6. Food grade will not rust or corrode. The steel grain is closer together so it is not the lightest. We could not use lock washers as that would trap food and most bolt ends were ground off flush. We had one of the finest SS welder in the US working for us.
EddyR

Scooper, thank you for your expertise that you are sharing. I really appreciate learning what you are posting here.

Bill

Noglider, you tipped me off to this builder, I hold you 100% responsible for my actions.

Back on track - Scooper, indeed great information, I'm just not sure how much of this really effects, to a noticeable degree; the ride characteristics, performance or longevity of the frame? Having seen the earlier SS frames that members have posted, I'm even more convinced it's more a trend or artistic movement in the world of "I paid way to much for my bicycle". I recant my earlier classification of "fad' as that seems too lame for the quality of what's being produced.

Could be. On one hand, it could be that since it's expensiver, it must be better. On the other hand, maybe it is better. Since the price is out of reach for both of us, we can believe whichever we want, and we can even change our minds as often as we want.

Buy my bikes and I can do it! Great, now I sound like an addict!

I mixed the stainless appliances with tomato red walls, light birch cabinets, and 12" checker black/white ceramic tile. Sparkly black quartz countertops, too. Works for me:D.,,,,BD


Of course if you drop anything breakable on ceramic tile, it's a goner.:(

Since none of your other respondents answered this per se...

A mixture of chromium and iron is obtained by smelting the mineral chromite with coke in a furnace. It's an arc furnace, but it's not an electrochemical reaction like a battery electrode. (By contrast the production of aluminum from bauxite is indeed by electrolysis.) The resulting ferrochrome has more iron and nickel added to become stainless steel.

The material does not rust because the chromium reacts with air to make a protective oxide layer, like aluminum and titanium.

It was explained to me that it's "Stain-less", not "Stain-free", when I was surprised by some corrosion being present on boat fittings in a saltwater marine environment. Having said this, it's the most corrosion-resistant material I encountered there. As I think Reynolds explained in a previous post, not a problem for a bicycle frame. 953 is awesome, especially a custom build with polished lugs etc. - but currently too expensive for me in that context.

My 953 Waterford has the same ride "feel" (as in compliance, resilience or liveliness) and the same lateral stiffness as my 1972 Paramount P15-9 built with Reynolds 531. Although the 953 tubes have thinner walls than the Paramount's 531 tubes, because the 531 tube diameters are standard (25.4mm TT, 28.6mm DT, and 28.6mm ST) and the 953 tubes are OS (28.6mm TT, 31.7mm DT, and 28.6mm ST) the frames are equally stiff. Both frames are the same size and have virtually identical geometry, but the Waterford frame is significantly lighter (~1.5 pounds) than the Paramount frame. With the 2007 Campy Record 10-s group and very little effort to save weight by going all out and outfitting the bike with things like a lightweight saddle, wheelset, and threadless carbon fork, the 61cm Waterford at a hair over 20 pounds weighs a full six pounds less than the Paramount. That translates into better performance.

Admittedly part of the appeal of the Waterford is the extra time and effort of Dave Wages, the very talented framebuilder/brazer, to create what I think is a work of art. It isn't about how much I paid for it as it is how much I value it as a very capable piece of rideable art. Paint covers up lots of sloppiness, but on a bare stainless frame every file mark and uneven lug shoreline sticks out like a sore thumb. But you don't need that kind of artistic perfection to have a very capable TIG-welded stainless bike that rides just like an artisan frame at a fraction of the cost.

Regarding longevity, I think any reasonably well cared for steel frame that isn't built with unreasonably light scantlings will last a lifetime, stainless or not.

Just my $.02.

Groan... here is a photo... again.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7...ps9594ceae.jpg

During one of my former lives (Orenda Engines Limited) within the 60's and having worked extensively with stainless steel, I will

mention some of the above herein unnoted "attributes" of this wonder metal:

Grades within the 400 series are magnetic and considered "low class", in that as far as scrap value is concerned, "Just put it on that pile

and get out." (Same value as carbon steel.) It also tends toward pitting corrosion more often and greater than other S/S; eg 300 series.

Pitting corrosion could be more pronounced within the bike community when a dissimilarity of metals presents itself such as when a

carbon steel attachment is secured to a tube without proper separation between the two or a naked carbon steel cable housing rubs

against the more noble metal; both would be exasperated by (salt) water.

Contrary to popular belief, S/S is a "greasy" metal with which to work, it being easy to create a galled surface when a sliding motion

is brought to bear on mating surfaces, such as when tightening an assembly without an intervening lubricant. This galling action is

the reason that cobalt drill bits, c/w 135 degree split points are especially good while working this metal; the cobalt drill's hardness

and the point's geometry allow it's own parent metal to hold together and the split point to dig below the galled area; this being

accomplished by high feed, high speed and lubrication.


Regards,
J T

I think you're right on the money, there. The Columbus Zona and Life tubesets are very close to stainless steel, and create frame weights easily comparable to many carbon frames.

Reynolds 953 has raised the bar on lightness and feel, I'd like to try one of the Genesis Team Volare that the Madison team rides in the Pro Continental ranks.

Bill

Agreed the SS frame being lighter by 1.5lbs but the components must have cut another 4.5lbs of the total 6lbs differance between the two. Still that's about a 7% reduction in frame weight. Noticable? Maybe to some but I can't feel the difference in my bikes that vary in weight by more than that.

Agreed, my daily rider is a lightly built frame from Acceles & Pollock tubes, and is pushing 70 years on the road......nearing the average life span of an American.

I forming the opinion that the strongest appeal seems to be from the curb. Scooper, that is one fine piece of Waterford eye candy!

Yeah, those stainless kitchen appliances have been a disappointment when grape juice spills on them. I never liked the fad of stainless steel kitchen appliances. I'm betting that white enamel will come back in style eventually.

Rich folks have wads of cash to waste, they buy Rolex watches and BMW cars. Mark and Richard want to tap into that river of cash. Custom frames have always been that way, look who survives, the builders that cater to the lug lickers. Not an issue, I do get a kick out of how rich guys tell me how their overpriced watch/car/bike is really a good value. SS frames don't rust, neither do properly cared for steel frames, makes me laugh. Just be rich and enjoy it, don't blow smoke up our middle class behinds as if we're clueless.

Because if someone appreciates something you don't it must be smoke up your ass, or wasted money.

Y'know...rather than something nice that you can't afford and thus decide to poop on.

I don't have much use for dynohubs and IGH, but I don't feel the need to crap on them.

"Custom frames have always been that way, look who survives, the builders that cater to the lug lickers."
Mr IGH.

As opposed to the bottom feeders?


J T

Bothers, let's not dump on one another. One mans dream is another's folly, ones junk another's treasure. Even the humblest of forumite's bike would be a treasure in Havana.....have a look.

Beautiful Cycling Film: Havana Bikes | CyclingEurope.org