Drivetrain upgrade for '85 Kodiak
 

I commute daily on a recently acquired 1985 Raleigh Kodiak and would like to build a wheelset for it, because:

• I want a dyno hub to power lights
• It sounds like fun
• It would be the next step in my development as a bike mechanic

The bike is pretty close to original, which means 27" wheels, a 5 speed freewheel, a Deore rear derailleur (looks like this one: VeloBase.com - Component: Shimano RD-DE20, Deore), 100mm front and 126mm rear dropout spacing, and cantilever brakes.

I'd like to convert the bike to 700C for better parts selection and compatibility with the other bikes I own. I'll spread the rear triangle to 130mm for parts availability too. If you can see a problem with this plan, please let me know.

I'm having a hard time figuring out what to do with the rear hub and sprockets. I'd like to change to a freehub and 7 speed cluster, but I have questions about availability and compatibility:

• Detailed specs on rear hubs are hard to come by, as is sourcing. Any suggestions on exact models that would work and where to get them? For instance, what's the difference between a Shimano Ultegra 6700 and 6800? Or a Shimano 105 5700 and 5800?
• Is putting a 7 speed Uniglide cluster on a hub designed for more sprockets just a matter of finding the right spacers? If so, how do I figure out what spacers I'll need?
• Do you forsee any problems using my existing rear derailleur and friction shifters with a 7 speed rear cluster? What would stop me from going with 8 speeds, or 9? (compatibility-wise; I don't think I'd benefit from the additional gears).
• I assume the front derailleur and chainrings will be fine, since the same chain works for 5-8 speed setups, right?

pnwc, welcome to BF and specifically C&V. You've come to the right place.

Lots of questions and I can't answer them all. But I can tell you it is not easy to find Uniglide cassettes. You are better off going with a 7 speed Hyperglide cassette, SRAM, Shimano or Sunrace. There is a spacer made to fit behind 7 speed cassettes to be used on a 130mm spaced hub.

Friction shifting gets more tricky the more cogs you have in the rear. You'll be fine up to 7, 8 okay, 9 is a challenge but is possible.

You can try the old chainrings, but if you are going to a new cassette and chain it might make sense to use new chainrings as well. Cogs and chainrings tend to "wear" into the chain. If you change one thing sometimes there are shifting challenges which didn't exist in the past. By replacing all three at the same time those challenges aree usually avoided.

Best of luck on your project! A rule of thumb here is to always post pictures. :D

Canti's will (may?) pose a challenge in switching from 27" to 700c. The only parts availability you gain is in tires (well, rims too). Granted, tires are a very important component to the overall feel of a bike. Panaracer and Vittoria both make 27" tires that are plenty good for most uses.

Cantilever brakes on a frame don't allow you to change wheel size. However if you have a hole in the fork below the crown you can mount caliper brakes. Dual pivot or single pivot.

I would grab any of the 8/9/10 speed Tiagra, 105 or Ultegra rear hubs for what you are talking about doing. Tiagra 4500 & 4600, 105 up through 5700 and Ultegra up to 6700 will all work. You can use the 5800 & 6800 stuff but it's 11 speed compatible and not really needed for your game plan. That said, I've used all three (Tiagra, 105, Ultegra) and I'd buy a Tiagra rear hub. Any of them will need more grease and cone adjustment even when new.

Might as well go 8 speed and skip the spacer if you are using a 130mm rear hub. Like Bob said, friction shifting up to 8 speed works great, 9 speed and above I like indexing.

Your rear derailleur will work.

Chainrings will be fine.

I have a bunch of mid-80s touring bikes. They all still wear 27" wheels. It's got little to do with "originality" but more to do with "qualilty" and I don't want to futz with canti pads at goofy angles.

While I have seen some 27- 700C conversions that look great and natural, I've seen a lot where the pad angle is much more down than in.


You may wish to see the blog for forum member [MENTION=178668]The Thin Man[/MENTION] and his really nice redoing of a Kodiak:

1985 Raleigh Kodiak :: Spring Cleaning | The Simplicity of Vintage Cycles

Yeah, with cantis, the swap from 27" to 700c is "can of worms" scenario. It can be done, but you need to have the right brakes to do it (probably not the ones you have now).

If you want to build your own wheels, there's no reason you can't do that on 27" rims and avoid having to redo the brakes.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I will definitely throw a 700C wheel on and check the cantilever adjustment before committing myself. Here's what it looked like when I got it:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=406877
And after adding Gille Berthoud fenders and a Tubus front rack:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=406878

Some canti-equipped bikes are easier than others to switch from 27" to 700C. My Univega Gran Turismo was a piece of cake- just adjusted the pads.

The mid-80's Raleigh touring bikes are most definitely *not* easy. Even though the radial difference is only 4 mm, those 4mm just aren't there. You'll never get the pads flat to the rim with the original brakes. And nothing other than boutique brakes (Pauls, e.g.) will have the adjustment range to fit. The stud-to-rim-center measurement is just too dang small. I had to move the studs on my Raleigh Touring 18 (early Alyeska) (well, since I was moving the studs anyway, I went to 650B).

Love the 1st generation Deore! My bike has it too. I went to bar-end shifters and 7-speed on a modern 8-9-10 freehub (Tiagra). It requires a 4.5 mm spacer, and the dropouts need to be spread a little for the 130 mm OLD wheel to fit in the 126 mm OLD frame, but that's easy.

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...ps029ca8c3.jpg

I would (and did) just go with an 8-speed cassette. Before I moved to Europe, I cold set the rear on my 120 mm spaced '77 Centurion Pro Tour to 135 mm and put on a cheap Shimano touring-oriented wheel with a MTB hub on the rear and a dynamo wheel on the front. I don't regret it at all. The rim size was a non-issue for me, but my bike has brazed-on centerpulls and not the more frustrating cantilever brakes. I'm using a modern Acera RD mated to the original Suntour barcon shifters to pull the chain around and it works nicely.

Uniglide is a bad idea. Check out what NOS Uniglide cassettes are bringing on ebay.

Interesting your efforts to embrace modern standards: 700c, 130mm spacing, etc., then for a common wear item (cassette) you are choosing one that has been obsolete for over 20 years.

Saying "Uniglide" was just a symptom of my ignorance. Sounds like the consensus is a Tiagra 8-speed hub, which I gather takes a Hyperglide cassette.

I also checked out the brake adjustment necessary to use 700C, and I'm convinced I should stick with 27" rims.

Thanks for all the great info.

You could go with 700c if you got a SA dynamo drum brake hub: http://www.amazon.com/Sturmey-Archer.../dp/B002AGC7F8. That will give you fine all weather braking. You could then go with a SA 5 speed drum brake on the rear plus a tensioner. You live in the PNW, right? A 1 x 5 with a drum brakes and a chain guard would rock in all that rain as a commuter.

Get some Tektro CR720's, and you can run whatever wheel size you want. There aren't many bikes I've run into that cannot be adjusted to either wheel size. There are those few though.,,,,BD

They come in silver and black, and you will be able to do endo's if you want;).

Tektro CR720 Cantilever Brake Front or Rear in Tree Fort Bikes Cantilever Brakes (cat1233)

I haven't measured how wide the canti posts are on my Kodiak but I know that the '86 Cresta I had would not accept Tektro CR720's because of how narrow the fork blade was. So, when I upgraded my Kodiak I didn't even bother testing the CR720's and went right for what worked on the Cresta which is the Planet X Frogs Bollox cantilever brakes.
I've had them on for months and am impressed with their stopping ability. Plus, they are highly adjustable and, to me, fit in tastefully with the vintage aesthetic.

Just wonderimg if you tried switching the narrow spacers inboard before you scrapped the 720's? Both times I have used those brakes I had to use the narrow spacer inboard, and one time was on a wide spaced mountain bike frame.,,,,BD

I love my Tektro 720s but I've had similar problems in setting them up on a vintage bike. The planet x frogs bollocks looks to be a good (and tastefully named) alternative to the 720s.

Greetings @pnwcommuter , pretty sure I sold you that bike a few months ago and miss it badly. Any chance you are disgruntled and want a refund :) ?

Kidding aside, hope you are enjoying it!

PPS, I have some 720's if you want to try it out. They did not fit on my 87 miyata, front fork spacing too narrow. or go down to recycled cycles, they should have some pairs in the used bin, returnable

I certainly did switch them out. I tried everything and asked my buddies working at shops if they had any thoughts. In the end, it just... wouldn't... work. Now, that was a Nishiki Cresta GT and not a Kodiak so the spacing may be a touch better but they are very similar bicycles. Still, if someone is going to offer up a pair to try out (I'm looking at you m0thra), then by all means give them a go, but if they don't fit, the Planet X will and they won't be too out of place.

If you're Mike J., then you're the guy. I love the bike, but if you're interested in trading the Miyata, I'm listening ;-)

I've ridden the Raleigh every day since putting the fenders on it, so it's been put to good use.

Update time! I followed a lot of the advice from this thread and it worked out great, so thanks. Short story: I stuck with 27" wheels, and used a Tiagra 4600 rear hub (130mm) with a Shimano 8 speed cassette (HG51). I left the rest of the drivetrain alone. I also built a front wheel with a Shimano dynamo hub (3N72) to power a Busch and Muller Eyc Senso front light and a B&M Toplight Line Plus rear.

Longer story:

These were my first two wheel builds; they turned out great and were a lot of fun. I just followed the instructions from Roger Musson's book. Here's the front on my homemade stand:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=426376

I love the dynamo lights. No worrying about batteries, charging, or even turning them on or off; just swing a leg over and go.

The rear wheel and 8 speed cassette work fine with the stock friction shifters and derailleur. I probably need to tweak the chain length, but I'll wait for the next new chain for that. I haven't tried cold-setting the rear dropout width from 126mm to 130. The new wheel fits with a little bit of fiddling, although I may regret it if I have to deal with a cold, dark, roadside flat repair.

I still wish there was better tire availability for 27" wheels though. When I was ready to buy I couldn't find Gatorskins in stock, so I went with the Schwalbe Marathons. Now the Gatorskins are available.

Now I just need a new wheelbuilding project. I'm thinking about building a 650b wheelset for my Marinoni...