sl, 631, etc. above 63cm frames
 

Hi guys and gals of CV, this is my first post over here. I recently wrecked and am doing a bit of homework on potentially stepping up from my last ride, a tange 900 Shogun 500 tourer made ss and despite being a 63cm, having the seatpost and stem maxxed out. It was the closest to a proper fitting bike I've yet owned. I have some looong legs and would like something better than your common 531 schwinn or tange 900 japanese made bike (although my last one was nice). I am considering eliminating the inside-rust gamble and getting a wabi special plus a dirt drop type stem, but I really would prefer something that has the skinny tubes and stem that I'm used to and rides somehow better than my shogun. Did any companies do production runs of xxl bikes with high-end tubing? If so, what models should I be keeping an eye out for?

Also, I've read of weight limits on some tubesets like Tange Prestige. Despite my height, I'm usually only 175lbs, now after four months of couch/bed rest following the accident I'm up to 200. Should I even be considering higher end tubes or just stick with 531 and 900/mangalloy/mangalight (am I wasting my effort googling site:craigslist...)?

Most of my bikes are in the 63cm range and here are my impressions (FWIW) of four bikes with four different tube sets:

1971(?) Grandis, made from Columbus SL, according the folks there who answered my email. My lightest bike right now at 23.5 lbs, including a heavyish wheelset. The bike feels 'soft,' relatively flexy, super comfortable all-day rider. Has longest top tube of the four mentioned here, 24".
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...s/100_1696.jpg

1983 Nishiki Landau, made from Tange 900, the heaviest of the four at a little over 26 lbs, (before fenders, luggage added) but that was as weighed with fairly heavy set of tires - Vittoria Rando Cross 28c. Feels heavier than the Grandis, a little slower, even though it's stiffer. Relatively lifeless feeling, but who knows, maybe with different wheels/tires...?
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...kifendered.jpg

1985 Trek 600 Series, Reynolds 531cs. Notably stiffer and lighter than the Nishiki, way stiffer than the Grandis. Still comfortable to me for long rides, but I'm kind of an ironbutt who likes plain plastic Unicanitor saddles and that sort of thing. About 25 lbs. (with a lighter wheel set than shown here)
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...n/IMG_2488.jpg

1987 Schwinn Tempo, Tenax tube set (which may or may not be Columbus SP, there's a lot of internet jibber jabber over this issue which makes interesting reading). About 24.5 lbs. Stiffest one of the four bikes and feels "sprintier" than the rest. Coincidentally, it's usually wearing my most modern wheel set (not the ones shown), which may have something to do with it. But even with a lesser wheelset (the ones shown), its performance seems a bit better than the other bikes, overall.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d.../tempobike.jpghttp://www.zoominto.com/zoomapi/ZoomButt.gifhttp://www.zoominto.com/zoomapi/ZoomButt.gif

For frames that large, even though you're not a Clyde I think you should be looking for a frame with thicker walled butted tubing like SP or 0.8mm straight gauge tubing. Larger frames with thin wall standard diameter tubing are pretty flexy even with a light rider. If you can find a newer frame in 63cm or bigger with thin walled high strength OS tubing (like 853 OS, S3, Spirit, etc.) the larger diameter tubes will provide greater stiffness and lighter weight.

+1. Scooper is rarely wrong.
What you really need to focus on is the TT/stem length.
For bigger bikes the 12/13/14cm stems look best.
Maybe Puch/AD for larger frames. I've seen some Concordes in larger sizes.

My largest is 63cm (ctc) or 64 (ctt),with a 59.75cm TT.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=407308

The question about whether the Tenax tubing Schwinn used is SP or not has been definitively settled by Columbus Tubi as far as I'm concerned.

According to Andrea at Columbus Tubi, Tenax is seamed double-butted 25CrMo4 like Cromor, and is only the three main frame tubes. After cold drawing and butting the seam is so homogeneous that the tubes are virtually the same as seamless for all practical purposes. 25CrMo4 is a European standard that is the same alloy as AISI 4130. SP, OTOH, is Columbus Cyclex alloy which is also chromoly but has slightly higher tensile and yield strength than 25CrMo4 (25CrMo4 UTS is 800MPa while Cyclex UTS is 900 MPa). SP also differs from Tenax in that it is seamless.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7...psfd94d277.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7...ps279fb994.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7...psf604d234.jpg

Tenax Schwinn frames that take 26.6mm seatposts have plain gauge seat tubes.

Thanks guys! Tenax was another that was on the list, but low on it for not having such thorough comparisons, but not on the list at all now.

There's nothing wrong with Tenax. In fact, because of the thicker walls, many would consider it superior to "high end" thin wall standard diameter tubing for frames over ~60cm.

^ That makes sense to me, when a stiffer, more high-performance frame is desired. Want your big light frame soft and noodly? Go for the Columbus SL. Obviously, a framebuilder would mention that geometry and construction technique make a big difference as well.
[MENTION=372603]MattoftheRocks[/MENTION], come on out and ride my bikes, you'll find the differences pretty interesting, compared side-by-side!

I know a that a 25.5inch frame with straight gauge 531 main triangle - Raleigh SuperCourse from 1972 - sure rides nice, but not light.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=407323

^ And not especially stiff, either, considering the really short top tube; well shy of 58cm. I'll post of some more pics of that one on the Super Course thread when I finally turn it into a fixie. (Don't worry, there's nothing to drew on that frame. :) )

I'm 6'3" and have had a couple of 80's Trek 25" frames. They rode too big for me, even though I have other makes with that size seat tube. They tend to have longer top tubes for the frame size - 60 or 61cm. I'd keep you eye out for one.

I enjoy riding vintage bikes for fitness and century rides. I've been seeking Columbus SP or SPX frames for regular usage. SP and SPX have larger wall thickness and the tubeset is about 20% heavier than SL, adding about a half-pound. I'm a Clydesdale, and really like the stiffness of these frames.

The Serotta Nova Special X was built in Columbus SPX during the 1980's. The geometry is great fit with a 64cm C-to-T seat-tube and a 60 C-to-C toptube. I'm using a 32 spoke wheelset featuring Shimano 600 tri-color hubs and Mavic Open Pro rims. The rear wheel was rebuilt and a Shimano Deore XTR eight-speed 12-28 cassette was installed. The Crankset is a Suntour Superbe with 52, 42 & 30 chainrings, the pedals also are Suntour Superbe. The rear derailleur is a Shimano long arm 6207 GS 600 series, the front derailleur is a Campagnolo for triple. Shifters are NOS Shimano eight-speed 600.



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[MENTION=280039]Lascauxcaveman[/MENTION] Thanks for the offer! I may take you up on that after ive healed.

The thing that I liked about the shogun was how soft and flimsy it felt compared to my wayyy too small triple butted miyata (which I still like) and like cooked spaghetti compared to a cheap al frame I have. Perhaps in a couple of years I'll have a desire for a stiffer frame, but right now I'm probably not walking without a cane till May and I plan on putting the majority of next years miles on on the Erie Canal path (not smooth at all). But I was also keeping an eye out for a 63cm tb Miyata for something sporty, any comparison of their tubes to tenax?


Yeah, Treks and Bridgestones I'm steering clear of because I actually need a frame the other way around- tall with low stretch, but thanks!

That SPX Serotta is gorgeous! :thumb:

Raleigh Internationals from the 70s have short top tubes; I believe on my 62cm model the top tube was 56.5cm.

Motobecane made some really nice smooth bikes in the 70s from Vitus tubing as well; they don't go for very much. Just something else to consider.

Scooper, thanks for posting that email from Columbus Tubi. I had not seen that before prior to tonight.

I got tired of all the speculation over Tenax and figured I'd write Columbus and ask about it; I figured the worst that could happen is that they wouldn't reply.

Nova Cycle Supply near Sacramento is a Columbus distributor/dealer and had Cromor tubing for sale a year or so ago, and in the ad stated that Schwinn had built 25,000 Tenax frames using Cromor, so I thought if Columbus also said Tenax was essentially Cromor it was a pretty safe bet it was.

Here's a screenshot of the Nova Supply ad.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7...ps27247ab8.jpg

CROMOR is thicker walled than SL, but is thinner than SP, except in the downtube and headtube which is the same as SP, see: http://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/col...umbuschart.htm


I have this Simoncini Cyclocross Special built from CROMOR. It's stiff and sporty, yet still has a smooth ride. I prefer CROMOR to Reynolds 531 or Columbus SL, which I find to be flexy in the larger frame sizes.


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Uh, could you give me your bike? Oh well, just asking...........
I have the same sort of question as the OP. I have an aluminum touring frame that just does not fit well enough. It has to go. My Fuji Gran Tourer was built for Cino Heroica. Its a tank and I don't want to do serious touring on it. I ride a 64/60 and a custom for me would be 66/60. In a new touring frame for my size it looks like a Long Haul Trucker. But.......Mercian's King of Mercia looks really nice. They offer three different tubing types. I really don't have enough knowledge to know how to choose. Plus, I would have to buy the Mercian blind from England. Really dont want to tour on aluminum ever again either.

The best tubing of the three offered should probably be left to Mercian, and they would likely want to know your body dimensions, weight, nominal power output, and type of riding you do in selecting the appropriate tubeset.