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The Peugeot that waited 24 years for Doug to come back

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The Peugeot that waited 24 years for Doug to come back

Old 10-01-14, 06:35 AM
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I have a PK 10 from around 1980-81, bought from original owner that had purchased it in France. Mine has a Swiss threaded BB, so when I swapped the crank I found one that worked with the existing spindle width. Shimano rear derailleur fits and works fine with no modifications, it also has french threading on the freewheel, so swaps there won't be easy (I swapped out the wheelset on mine. It is a very nice riding bike, well worth any effort put into the rehab.
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Old 10-01-14, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by scozim
A long cage Simplex would be cool. I've only seen one and it was on a used Trek mixte that I paid peanuts for. I really only wanted the bike formthe Simplex pieces. I was shocked the Fench parts were stock for the bike in '84 (I think that was the year)
Harry Spehar (the guy who had final say over component specifications) was quite the Francophile and wasn't afraid to mix and match to get exactly what he wanted, so you find French components (derailleurs, hubs, freewheels, headsets, handlebars, etc.) on a lot of Trek models from that era.
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Old 10-01-14, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
Harry Spehar (the guy who had final say over component specifications) was quite the Francophile and wasn't afraid to mix and match to get exactly what he wanted, so you find French components (derailleurs, hubs, freewheels, headsets, handlebars, etc.) on a lot of Trek models from that era.
Thanks - come to think of it I vaguely remember it had a Helicomatic rear hub as well.
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Old 10-01-14, 09:35 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Kevin stafford
I have a PK 10 from around 1980-81, bought from original owner that had purchased it in France. Mine has a Swiss threaded BB, so when I swapped the crank I found one that worked with the existing spindle width. Shimano rear derailleur fits and works fine with no modifications, it also has french threading on the freewheel, so swaps there won't be easy (I swapped out the wheelset on mine. It is a very nice riding bike, well worth any effort put into the rehab.
Mine surprised me by having a Swiss-threaded BB. I believe 1980 was the transition year when Peugeot finally got it right (left? ).
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Old 10-01-14, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by old's'cool
Interesting finding. A technical reason for this is not jumping out at me, assuming the same thread diameter and pitch, and the same coefficients of friction between the male/female threads, respectively between the axial face of the fastener and the axial surface of the crank. Are my assumptions incorrect; or do you have a theory or accepted explanation for the difference in the torque vs axial force, given my assumptions?
The crank nuts require more torque than crank bolts mainly because of the threads being much coarser.

There is also more friction from the toothed surface on the integral washer, which further acts at a larger diameter than a bolt head acts on a washer (if present), so frictional torque is increased for any given amount of frictional force.

Lastly, crank bolts are 8mm diameter, so the frictional forces on the threads act at a larger diameter with the 10mm threaded stud on nutted spindles, so a higher torque results for any given amount of force pushing the crankarm onto the taper.

One more thing, the threads on nutted spindles don't seem to have the same material strength as the threads on crank bolts, so thread failure can result from very heavy tightening used to make up for the reduced pressfit force that nuts offer.

In summary, the nutted design is inferior to bolts, and nutted cranks should always be re-torqued after initial torque loading (as by riding or by jumping on the pedals with crankarms horizontal).
The scalloped "toothed" surface of the nut's integral washer surface is meant to somewhat make up for these nut's lack of crankarm-retention performance imo. The nutted design would seem to be designed for lower levels of service stress, so wasn't used on any real racing bikes that I am aware of.

Last edited by dddd; 10-01-14 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 10-01-14, 05:04 PM
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ddd, I also do that on 2 of my Peugeots with nutted bolts.
After re-packing the BB, I re-tighten the BB nuts about 2-3 times at approx 50-75 miles each until they are finally "tight".
It is indeed an inferior design but I personally like to ride and tighten rather than put too much torque on the freshly tightened nuts.

It is a good heads up for those that just tighten and ride because the nuts will get loose and come off in the middle of a ride a long ways from home... don't ask me how I know...lol
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Old 10-01-14, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dddd
The crank nuts require more torque than crank bolts mainly because of the threads being much coarser.

There is also more friction from the toothed surface on the integral washer, which further acts at a larger diameter than a bolt head acts on a washer (if present), so frictional torque is increased for any given amount of frictional force.

Lastly, crank bolts are 8mm diameter, so the frictional forces on the threads act at a larger diameter with the 10mm threaded stud on nutted spindles, so a higher torque results for any given amount of force pushing the crankarm onto the taper.

One more thing, the threads on nutted spindles don't seem to have the same material strength as the threads on crank bolts, so thread failure can result from very heavy tightening used to make up for the reduced pressfit force that nuts offer.

In summary, the nutted design is inferior to bolts, and nutted cranks should always be re-torqued after initial torque loading (as by riding or by jumping on the pedals with crankarms horizontal).
The scalloped "toothed" surface of the nut's integral washer surface is meant to somewhat make up for these nut's lack of crankarm-retention performance imo. The nutted design would seem to be designed for lower levels of service stress, so wasn't used on any real racing bikes that I am aware of.
So basically all of my aSSumptions were false. The larger thread diameter alone is enough to dictate that higher torque is required for the same clamping force, everything else being equal. Thanks for the detailed explanation.
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Old 10-02-14, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Shp4man
You'll have to modify the derailleur hanger to get a Japanese part to work as it has a different positioner peg.
I don't know what a "positioner peg" is, but a Suntour RD should bolt right on.
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Old 10-02-14, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois
I don't know what a "positioner peg" is, but a Suntour RD should bolt right on.
So the bike has a different rear dropout than this one?

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Old 10-02-14, 10:40 AM
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@Shp4man nailed it... another good reason to just keep all the original running gear and size down to compact-double style TA Cyclotourist rings for that crank, as RogerM has advised me.
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Old 10-02-14, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by avzay66
PKN10s are great.

Only thing i dont like about it is that chainstays are too narrow to fit fenders with enough clearance, making the fender eyelets useless.
Nonsense, 1980 PKN 10 with 28mm paselas.

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Old 10-02-14, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman
@Shp4man nailed it...
Yes he did. I was wrong.
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Old 10-02-14, 02:50 PM
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the hanger changed to a standard, threaded one the following year.

when you 'charge' the upper spring of the simplex rd using the backing nut, max the tension by merely using your hands until you tighten it all the way with an allen key in the hanger bolt. more is better.
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Old 10-02-14, 03:07 PM
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What's that crank, a 49d? You know, you could get a 42-tooth triplizer chainring that would match that crank almost perfectly, or go as low as possible within the confines of the 122 BCD in a double by installing a 37-tooth inner in place of the ring that's there now.

I'm a little bit sheepish about mentioning that, since I make and sell those chainrings (Red Clover Components - Home). My mercenary instincts get the better of me sometimes. But I really do think that staying with an original crank does a lot to enhance the look of an old French bike.
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Old 09-16-18, 11:52 PM
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Nice PKN10. The frame color is different, but with a small brush + some red, white, black paint you could produce a Kaleido/Confetti version, show doug a pic of mine and see what he thinks......Just kidding! Don
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Old 09-17-18, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Shp4man
You'll have to modify the derailleur hanger to get a Japanese part to work as it has a different positioner peg. In defense of the Simplex/Malliard drivetrain, I can say I was really impressed with how quietly it shifted. No grinding or really any noise at all when shifting the rear derailleur. Running a new SRAM PC-870 chain.
I think those Simplex derailleurs are not the Simplexes that are reknowned for breaking. I would try them first.

I also think those tires look pretty good. First, they look like tubulars. Are there any markings on the tire? The sidewalls look dry, but they also look like very high quality tires. I'd inflate them on the rim up to about 40 psi, give the sidewalls and tread a good inspection. If the integrity is good and there are no leaks, go for inflating them up to about 95 psi and repeat the inspections. If they hold air for a day, the innertubes are latex rubber, and a major find! Or there may be a slow leak you should fix. If they stay inflated for a week, the innertubes are butyl, and have good integrity.

World Class Cycles sells Jevelot Tire Life and I think a similar product, which you can paint onto the sidewalls to seal the threads against damage due to water and abrasion.
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Old 09-17-18, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Road Fan
I think those Simplex derailleurs are not the Simplexes that are reknowned for breaking. I would try them first.

I also think those tires look pretty good. First, they look like tubulars. Are there any markings on the tire? The sidewalls look dry, but they also look like very high quality tires. I'd inflate them on the rim up to about 40 psi, give the sidewalls and tread a good inspection. If the integrity is good and there are no leaks, go for inflating them up to about 95 psi and repeat the inspections. If they hold air for a day, the innertubes are latex rubber, and a major find! Or there may be a slow leak you should fix. If they stay inflated for a week, the innertubes are butyl, and have good integrity.

World Class Cycles sells Jevelot Tire Life and I think a similar product, which you can paint onto the sidewalls to seal the threads against damage due to water and abrasion.
The thread is 3 years old, he probably got it sorted out by now.
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Old 09-17-18, 06:36 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by jj1091
The thread is 3 years old, he probably got it sorted out by now.
I wish he would update -- as one can read from the thread, PKN-10s have a lot of fans (myself included). These are near-ideal all-rounder bikes.
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Old 09-17-18, 10:31 AM
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My fault for reviving the old thread, I got sucked in clicking on a link in Thumpism's post re the the Cleveland cyclist who got his old Peugeot PX10 back years later. I was not paying attention. Don

Last edited by ollo_ollo; 09-17-18 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 09-17-18, 11:30 AM
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It was fun re-reading the old thread, reminded me of my old PKN10 that I sold, and the PXN10 in a better size that replaced it, the one I never took a picture of even though it's been a fave rider for many years now.

It was a "molested" bike as found, the seat tube ever-so-slightly crushed by a shop stand clamp and the bars/stem changed to suit a seriously short-reaching rider.

But I persevered with it's roadworthiness right through the day I worked/forced an English-threaded UN-71 bottom bracket with it's alloy cups and shorter spindle into the frame's Swiss-threaded bb shell, a decision I've not regretted. The rear derailer wasn't original anyway (and it has a Campag-style hanger), so I put on a Sprint Accushift rear derailer to work with the original retrofriction levers and a 7s Uniglide freewheel I'd built for it. I'm sure the hub was English-threaded btw.
I'll be riding it through local rolling hills in a few minutes to see what the weekend may have brought into the Goodwill store across town, but Peugeot finds there have become fewer and further between these last few years.





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