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Colin Laing Frame?

Old 10-03-14, 06:56 AM
  #1  
chewa
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Colin Laing Frame?

Sorry, I initially posted this in the wrong forum I'd never even think of selling this bike!

I'm just in the process of getting my favourite bike resprayed for the second time.

The frame was made in 1984. I bought it from Sandy Gilchrist Cycles as a custom build, and had always assumed it was a Joe Waugh/M Steel build. It is a beautiful 531c "fast tourer" which was originally built with Campag dropouts, over BB cable guides, rear rack bosses and an internal guide for a BB dynamo (that ages it). Still rides like a dream, but the only original items are the frame/fork, the GB bar and the seatpost. It's on its 6th or 7th BB and had several sets of wheels and transmissions. I converted to ergo 15 years ago.

It was branded Sandy Gilchrist and is my go to bike. The frame has done the best part of 100000 miles over the last 30 years(commuting and touring - the gear cables have notched the guides! so they will be ground smooth) and about 15 years ago I got it powder coated by Bob Jackson with the addition of canti bosses and front lowrider braze ons.

I have now managed to get a company to make me replica SG decals from photos of the originals (as Sandy's shop closed and he is now a top flight mechanic) and have ordered the right 531c frame and fork badges.

I was in touch with Sandy and he mentioned that he thinks it is most likely a Colin Laing frame as, at that time, Colin built frames for him (prior to emigrating to the States). A quick search for pictures online shows that may be the case - swept in seat stays, curved brake bridge, over BB guides, and it was originally hand lined in gold. Same tpeface for decals.

Can anyone tell me how to identify for sure? The BB is stamped but as it's at the sprayers I'll have to check the numbers when it is back. It has a couple of numbers stamped and from memory a small diamond badge with letters but some may be from the Bob Jackson work.

Any help gratefully received and when it's back, I'll photograph the rebuild.

Cheers

John
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plus je vois les hommes, plus j'admire les chiens

1985 Sandy Gilchrist-Colin Laing built 531c Audax/fast tourer.
1964 Flying Scot Continental (531)
1995 Cinelli Supercorsa (Columbus SLX)
1980s Holdsworth Mistral fixed (531)
2005 Dahon Speed 6 (folder)
(YES I LIKE STEEL)
2008 Viking Saratoga tandem
2008 Micmo Sirocco Hybrid (aluminium!)
2012 BTwin Rockrider 8.1
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Old 10-04-14, 04:35 PM
  #2  
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Might be a long shot but you might try giving Andy Gilmour, Gilmour Bicycles in Tucson a call and ask him, or perhaps better send him some photos. He is super nice guy who just restored my Laing from the dead by doing the impossible (according to the internet) cold setting to a Reynolds 753R Laing frame that had a bent fork and frame. After 5200 terrific miles on the straight as an arrow frame I had Andy paint it last month and he got decals directly from Colin who he knows.
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Old 10-05-14, 12:39 AM
  #3  
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Thanks. I might do that when I get the frame back from spraying.
I had always assumed that M. Steel/Dave Yates/Joe Waugh had built it, but when Sandy said it might be Colin Laing I would just like to know.
Other than knowing it makes no diference. I am rebuilding with replicas of the original decals, and either way, its a beaut of a hand built frame and been my companion for many miles!

funny how attached one becomes! I have so many bikes because I have never been able to sell any!
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1985 Sandy Gilchrist-Colin Laing built 531c Audax/fast tourer.
1964 Flying Scot Continental (531)
1995 Cinelli Supercorsa (Columbus SLX)
1980s Holdsworth Mistral fixed (531)
2005 Dahon Speed 6 (folder)
(YES I LIKE STEEL)
2008 Viking Saratoga tandem
2008 Micmo Sirocco Hybrid (aluminium!)
2012 BTwin Rockrider 8.1
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Old 10-05-14, 09:07 AM
  #4  
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Originally Posted by chewa View Post

The frame was made in 1984. I bought it from Sandy Gilchrist Cycles as a custom build, and had always assumed it was a Joe Waugh/M Steel build.
...
I was in touch with Sandy and he mentioned that he thinks it is most likely a Colin Laing frame as, at that time, Colin built frames for him (prior to emigrating to the States).
Doesn't sound like the right time frame. The fork on our tandem broke in the late 70s and I took it to Colin's shop in Tucson, Az to have the steerer tube replaced and the damaged head tube of the frame repaired.

Unless Colin went back to the UK in the 80s.
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Old 10-05-14, 09:11 AM
  #5  
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Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
Doesn't sound like the right time frame. The fork on our tandem broke in the late 70s and I took it to Colin's shop in Tucson, Az to have the steerer tube replaced and the damaged head tube of the frame repaired.

Unless Colin went back to the UK in the 80s.
I thought the same, but I understand that he was back in the UK for 18mths or so about that time. Sandy (who should know) was pretty certain. Once I get the frame back I'll check the serials and try to tie it down from there.

It's an interesting research project
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1985 Sandy Gilchrist-Colin Laing built 531c Audax/fast tourer.
1964 Flying Scot Continental (531)
1995 Cinelli Supercorsa (Columbus SLX)
1980s Holdsworth Mistral fixed (531)
2005 Dahon Speed 6 (folder)
(YES I LIKE STEEL)
2008 Viking Saratoga tandem
2008 Micmo Sirocco Hybrid (aluminium!)
2012 BTwin Rockrider 8.1
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Old 10-06-14, 06:16 PM
  #6  
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Colin did move back to England back in 1984 and then moved back October 1985. I am his son - Stuart. He did make bike frames during this time with Sandy Gilchrist on them as well as Sid Barris and Otadini, plus my bike Colin Laing.
post some photo's if you want, and I can try and tell you a bit more. I was only 14 at the time, but knew Dad's business inside and out.
cheers
Stuart
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Old 10-06-14, 09:51 PM
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I have a Colin Laing.I took it by Mr Laing's home he's A very interesting Guy ,we talked bikes and life.I think he'll help you if you would just ask.
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Old 10-07-14, 02:14 AM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by selaing View Post
Colin did move back to England back in 1984 and then moved back October 1985. I am his son - Stuart. He did make bike frames during this time with Sandy Gilchrist on them as well as Sid Barris and Otadini, plus my bike Colin Laing.
post some photo's if you want, and I can try and tell you a bit more. I was only 14 at the time, but knew Dad's business inside and out.
cheers
Stuart
Stuart, that is incredibly kind.

As I mentioned before, it's really only for my interest. This bike has been my faithful companion for nearly 30 years. Prior to getting the frame I was riding a BSA "Tour de France" which my parents bought second hand. I had that for years and changed all the steel components for alloy. When I got my first job out of Uni I treated myself to a custom built frame and went to Sandy.

I then swapped all the components over to the new frame and got a set of new wheels (27"). About 15 years ago I sent it to Bob Jackson for a powder coat and decided to change to 700c, so got canti bosses put on and extra rack braze ons.

It has been on many tours (heavily loaded even though it's 531c), audaxes for a few years and was my commuting tool for about 16 years. I ride it every day I can in spring, autumn and winter and at least every week in summer (I have a few bikes so have to spread myself about!). I love all of my bikes, but the 531c is like an old friend and if I had to keep only one, it would be the one.

I have photos I'll dig out and will photo some of the details when it's back from the painter (hopefully this weekend). I have asked them to leave the small dings and dents here and there as they are memories of many years together!

All the best

John
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plus je vois les hommes, plus j'admire les chiens

1985 Sandy Gilchrist-Colin Laing built 531c Audax/fast tourer.
1964 Flying Scot Continental (531)
1995 Cinelli Supercorsa (Columbus SLX)
1980s Holdsworth Mistral fixed (531)
2005 Dahon Speed 6 (folder)
(YES I LIKE STEEL)
2008 Viking Saratoga tandem
2008 Micmo Sirocco Hybrid (aluminium!)
2012 BTwin Rockrider 8.1

Last edited by chewa; 10-07-14 at 02:16 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 10-07-14, 06:32 PM
  #9  
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Found this, and thought it was worth sharing....




> From: Colin Laing > Sender: classicrendezvous-bounces(AT)bikelist.org > To: Classic Rendezvous > ReplyTo: colin_laing(AT)yahoo.com > Subject: [CR]Colin Laing Bikes > Sent: Jan 6, 2009 1:00 PM > > > Hello Everyone, > > Just so people know, the bike you ride may or may not have > been made by the guy who's name graces the down tube. > In the past 54 years, I have made bikes for the following > brands,,,, > Sandy Gilchrist, Ken Ellerker, Pete Matthews, Sid Barras, > Ottadini Cycles, Jack Taylor, Bryan Bliss, Criteria Cycles, > Plus there was a smattering of "Brown Wrappers" > for Raleigh Pro team under Peter Post...Peugeot Pro Team, > Ron Kitching and of course Ludo Van Ijseghem...obviously > COLIN LAING, Le Colin, Colian and Laing Racing Cycles...all > this spanning well over 12500 frames. > For the record I repaired many frames post crashes which > included Confente, Eisentraut and Dave Moulten...and can say > without a doubt that Dave's and Albert's came out on > top under the paintwork, and method of construction...thanks > for listening,,,I won't be making many more,,,,maybe > less than a dozen as I have Muscular Dystrophy and becoming > a very old man...sincerely...COLIN LAING
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Old 10-11-14, 08:11 AM
  #10  
chewa
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Originally Posted by selaing View Post
Colin did move back to England back in 1984 and then moved back October 1985. I am his son - Stuart. He did make bike frames during this time with Sandy Gilchrist on them as well as Sid Barris and Otadini, plus my bike Colin Laing.
post some photo's if you want, and I can try and tell you a bit more. I was only 14 at the time, but knew Dad's business inside and out.
cheers
Stuart
Hi Stuart,

I got the frame back from the painters. The comment was that, when stripped, the brazing looked superb!

I've got some photos, difficult to catch detail on a gloss black frame (the paint looks superb) and I took them before I started adding the Sandy Gilchrist decals. I'd be interested to know if it is one of your dad's, if not I suspect it will be Dave Yates, who I think also built for Sandy.

It's 531c.
The canti bosses, front lowrider bosses and additional carrier supports on the rear Campag ends are not original (they were added by Bob Jackson about 15 years ago), but the special features are the swept in seat stays at the seat lug, the curved brake bridge, the two tabs on the seat stay for a Blackburn rack, and the guide tube brazed into the downtube for cabling for a bb dynamo light. (you can see the diamond shaped braze on round the hole in the last photo. The lower exit is just above the BB shell and is drilled through the lug. I couldn't pick it up in photos)

Numbers stamped on the BB seem to be 518, 33 with a backwards "c" and (I think) 5522, but after 30 years they are not as clear as they were.

Over BB cable guides and cable guides above TT too.

It has 4 slightly raised bottle cage holes. When originally supplied it was gloss black with gold luglining. White decals.

I start the rebuild tomorrow!!

Cheers

John
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Gilchrist respray 001.jpg (99.8 KB, 164 views)
File Type: jpg
Gilchrist respray 002.jpg (83.2 KB, 156 views)
File Type: jpg
Gilchrist respray 006.jpg (69.7 KB, 154 views)
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Gilchrist respray 007.jpg (69.9 KB, 157 views)
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Gilchrist respray 011.jpg (81.9 KB, 156 views)
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Gilchrist respray 014.jpg (57.5 KB, 151 views)
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Gilchrist respray 015.jpg (81.8 KB, 152 views)
File Type: jpg
Gilchrist respray 017.jpg (46.7 KB, 154 views)
__________________
plus je vois les hommes, plus j'admire les chiens

1985 Sandy Gilchrist-Colin Laing built 531c Audax/fast tourer.
1964 Flying Scot Continental (531)
1995 Cinelli Supercorsa (Columbus SLX)
1980s Holdsworth Mistral fixed (531)
2005 Dahon Speed 6 (folder)
(YES I LIKE STEEL)
2008 Viking Saratoga tandem
2008 Micmo Sirocco Hybrid (aluminium!)
2012 BTwin Rockrider 8.1
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Old 10-11-14, 08:22 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by chewa View Post
Hi Stuart,

I got the frame back from the painters. The comment was that, when stripped, the brazing looked superb!

I've got some photos, difficult to catch detail on a gloss black frame (the paint looks superb) and I took them before I started adding the Sandy Gilchrist decals. I'd be interested to know if it is one of your dad's, if not I suspect it will be Dave Yates, who I think also built for Sandy.

It's 531c.
The canti bosses, front lowrider bosses and additional carrier supports on the rear Campag ends are not original (they were added by Bob Jackson about 15 years ago), but the special features are the swept in seat stays at the seat lug, the curved brake bridge, the two tabs on the seat stay for a Blackburn rack, and the guide tube brazed into the downtube for cabling for a bb dynamo light. (you can see the diamond shaped braze on round the hole in the last photo. The lower exit is just above the BB shell and is drilled through the lug. I couldn't pick it up in photos)

Numbers stamped on the BB seem to be 518, 33 with a backwards "c" and (I think) 5522, but after 30 years they are not as clear as they were.

Over BB cable guides and cable guides above TT too.

It has 4 slightly raised bottle cage holes. When originally supplied it was gloss black with gold luglining. White decals.

I start the rebuild tomorrow!!

Cheers

John
Wow! Chewa, that came out well, great job. From other posts over the years I am familiar with Colin Laing's story and wish him all the best. I'm also interested in Sandy Gilchrist, whom you appear to know? I've bought a couple of job lots of mixed parts from him in the past on e-bay and been impressed with the interesting mix. Was he involved with International cycling squads? Some of the items in his listings would appear to suggest so? Just keen to address my ignorance and satisfy my curiosity for all things cycling and the people involved.
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Old 10-11-14, 11:17 AM
  #12  
chewa
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Hi,

I really only know Sandy from being a customer of his shop, which he sold a few years ago.

As far as I know he was indeed involved in international cycling, both as a competitor (from memory he held some records for considerable periods) and as a manager and mechanic. He worked with the Scottish team and, I think, the British Olympic team (track and road). You will find him mentioned in various cycling biographies.

He always dealt with good quality stuff. His shop had a few Flying Scot frames on the wall as I recall (his, I think) and unless I mis remember, some really nice souvenirs such as signed Merckx jerseys and photos from his competition days. He is incredibly knowledgeable without being patronising and is a really pleasant guy.

He was very helpful when I was building up my first real bike when I was student in the late 70s (I think I bought my first set of Campag hubs from there -I have been addicted to Campag since - and got his wheelbuilder to build my first set of touring wheels), which is why, when I could afford to get a handmade frame, I went to him.

He is currently working as a team mechanic all over the place.
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plus je vois les hommes, plus j'admire les chiens

1985 Sandy Gilchrist-Colin Laing built 531c Audax/fast tourer.
1964 Flying Scot Continental (531)
1995 Cinelli Supercorsa (Columbus SLX)
1980s Holdsworth Mistral fixed (531)
2005 Dahon Speed 6 (folder)
(YES I LIKE STEEL)
2008 Viking Saratoga tandem
2008 Micmo Sirocco Hybrid (aluminium!)
2012 BTwin Rockrider 8.1
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Old 10-12-14, 10:25 AM
  #13  
chewa
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Rebuild started

After a lovely ride through the mist this morning on the Flying Scot, I started the build up of the Gilchrist bike(aided by my apprentice - who is in one of the photos).

I put the stickers on last night, then rebuilt partly today, just taking the opportunity to give the parts I took off a bit of a clean before putting them back on. Copperslip on all the bits that need it. Seatpost and bar greased a bit.Lovely way tospend time outside on this fresh day (rather than in the garage)

I need to strip the bars down as I have new cables,and I also need to pick up some mudguard (fender bolts). It's coming together though! Next bits are chain, rear brakes (after cabling) rear mudguard and rack.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Gilchrist respray 001.jpg (102.2 KB, 155 views)
File Type: jpg
Gilchrist respray 002.jpg (97.1 KB, 152 views)
File Type: jpg
Gilchrist respray 003.jpg (104.2 KB, 148 views)
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Gilchrist respray 004.jpg (102.0 KB, 148 views)
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Gilchrist respray 005.jpg (93.8 KB, 149 views)
File Type: jpg
Gilchrist respray 006.jpg (106.2 KB, 148 views)
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Gilchrist respray 007.jpg (102.1 KB, 155 views)
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Gilchrist respray 008.jpg (101.7 KB, 154 views)
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Gilchrist respray 009.jpg (103.5 KB, 149 views)
File Type: jpg
Gilchrist respray 010.jpg (101.6 KB, 155 views)
__________________
plus je vois les hommes, plus j'admire les chiens

1985 Sandy Gilchrist-Colin Laing built 531c Audax/fast tourer.
1964 Flying Scot Continental (531)
1995 Cinelli Supercorsa (Columbus SLX)
1980s Holdsworth Mistral fixed (531)
2005 Dahon Speed 6 (folder)
(YES I LIKE STEEL)
2008 Viking Saratoga tandem
2008 Micmo Sirocco Hybrid (aluminium!)
2012 BTwin Rockrider 8.1
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Old 10-12-14, 11:13 AM
  #14  
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Beautiful bike. I love the story. I love that it has seen so many miles. I wonder if there has ever been a thread about ~100,000 mile bikes.
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Old 10-12-14, 07:21 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by chewa View Post
Hi,

I really only know Sandy from being a customer of his shop, which he sold a few years ago.

As far as I know he was indeed involved in international cycling, both as a competitor (from memory he held some records for considerable periods) and as a manager and mechanic. He worked with the Scottish team and, I think, the British Olympic team (track and road). You will find him mentioned in various cycling biographies.

He always dealt with good quality stuff. His shop had a few Flying Scot frames on the wall as I recall (his, I think) and unless I mis remember, some really nice souvenirs such as signed Merckx jerseys and photos from his competition days. He is incredibly knowledgeable without being patronising and is a really pleasant guy.

He was very helpful when I was building up my first real bike when I was student in the late 70s (I think I bought my first set of Campag hubs from there -I have been addicted to Campag since - and got his wheelbuilder to build my first set of touring wheels), which is why, when I could afford to get a handmade frame, I went to him.

He is currently working as a team mechanic all over the place.
Thanks Chewa, great additional info. Your bike (and dog) look great in your build-up photos.
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Old 10-15-14, 05:16 AM
  #16  
chewa
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Rebuild finished

Well, it's all back together. Looks like the same bike I built in 1984 (apart from the ergos, Stronglight c/set and the cantis - oh, and the 700c wheels )

Just a shakedown ride to go, then I'll get lights on it for winter use.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Gilchrist respray 001.jpg (102.0 KB, 159 views)
File Type: jpg
Gilchrist respray 002.jpg (101.2 KB, 150 views)
File Type: jpg
Gilchrist respray 003.jpg (103.5 KB, 148 views)
File Type: jpg
Gilchrist respray 004.jpg (100.4 KB, 147 views)
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plus je vois les hommes, plus j'admire les chiens

1985 Sandy Gilchrist-Colin Laing built 531c Audax/fast tourer.
1964 Flying Scot Continental (531)
1995 Cinelli Supercorsa (Columbus SLX)
1980s Holdsworth Mistral fixed (531)
2005 Dahon Speed 6 (folder)
(YES I LIKE STEEL)
2008 Viking Saratoga tandem
2008 Micmo Sirocco Hybrid (aluminium!)
2012 BTwin Rockrider 8.1
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Old 10-17-14, 03:47 PM
  #17  
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By looking at the seat lug and the seat stays, I am 95% sure my Dad - Colin Laing built this frame for Sandy Gilchrist between 1984 and 1985. Dad was making most of Sandy's frames during this time. I remember every few weeks driving from Yorkshire to Edinburgh to visit Sandy and the shop. Sandy and his wife at the time were at my wedding along with their daughter.
Nice to see some of Dad's bike still being used all these years later.
I'm very lucky to have a one-off by Dad and will keep that forever.

cheers
Stuart
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Old 10-20-14, 11:34 PM
  #18  
chewa
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Bikes: Custom (Colin Laing) 531c fast tourer/audax, 1964 Flying Scot Continental, 1995 Cinelli Supercorsa, Holdsworth Mistral single speed, Dahon Speed 6 (folder), Micmo Sirocco and a few more

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Thanks Stuart.

I have finished the rebuild and it rides likd new (and looks fabulous)

Cheers

John
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plus je vois les hommes, plus j'admire les chiens

1985 Sandy Gilchrist-Colin Laing built 531c Audax/fast tourer.
1964 Flying Scot Continental (531)
1995 Cinelli Supercorsa (Columbus SLX)
1980s Holdsworth Mistral fixed (531)
2005 Dahon Speed 6 (folder)
(YES I LIKE STEEL)
2008 Viking Saratoga tandem
2008 Micmo Sirocco Hybrid (aluminium!)
2012 BTwin Rockrider 8.1
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Old 09-08-19, 11:29 PM
  #19  
jeffpabilonia
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Originally Posted by chewa View Post
Hi Stuart,

I got the frame back from the painters. The comment was that, when stripped, the brazing looked superb!

I've got some photos, difficult to catch detail on a gloss black frame (the paint looks superb) and I took them before I started adding the Sandy Gilchrist decals. I'd be interested to know if it is one of your dad's, if not I suspect it will be Dave Yates, who I think also built for Sandy.

It's 531c.
The canti bosses, front lowrider bosses and additional carrier supports on the rear Campag ends are not original (they were added by Bob Jackson about 15 years ago), but the special features are the swept in seat stays at the seat lug, the curved brake bridge, the two tabs on the seat stay for a Blackburn rack, and the guide tube brazed into the downtube for cabling for a bb dynamo light. (you can see the diamond shaped braze on round the hole in the last photo. The lower exit is just above the BB shell and is drilled through the lug. I couldn't pick it up in photos)

Numbers stamped on the BB seem to be 518, 33 with a backwards "c" and (I think) 5522, but after 30 years they are not as clear as they were.

Over BB cable guides and cable guides above TT too.

It has 4 slightly raised bottle cage holes. When originally supplied it was gloss black with gold luglining. White decals.

I start the rebuild tomorrow!!

Cheers

John
very nice!
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Old 09-08-19, 11:41 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by easyupbug View Post
Might be a long shot but you might try giving Andy Gilmour, Gilmour Bicycles in Tucson a call and ask him, or perhaps better send him some photos. He is super nice guy who just restored my Laing from the dead by doing the impossible (according to the internet) cold setting to a Reynolds 753R Laing frame that had a bent fork and frame. After 5200 terrific miles on the straight as an arrow frame I had Andy paint it last month and he got decals directly from Colin who he knows.
great he was successful, Colin had me ship my 753 to space and align rear dropouts from 126 to 130 since rear triangle so tight with wishbone seatstay
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