Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

RALEIGH SBDU "TEAM PANASONIC" Frame Number Puzzle.

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

RALEIGH SBDU "TEAM PANASONIC" Frame Number Puzzle.

Old 10-20-14, 10:20 AM
  #1  
slatanic
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
slatanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
RALEIGH SBDU "TEAM PANASONIC" Frame Number Puzzle.

Hi All,

Last night I finally landed a 1987 RALEIGH SBDU "TEAM PANASONIC" from ebay I been searching for a 20.5 frameset since the ice age.

Anyway the frame number is PJ2 87.

I cannot find any trace of a "PJ" with raleigh panasonic.

He was obliviously around 5' 7" (20.5 frame) & good enough to have 2 bikes. The only person I can stretch is Perer Winnin & thats a stretch .....

Does anyone have any idea?

Thanks,
A walking on air delighted Shane
slatanic is offline  
Old 10-20-14, 10:22 AM
  #2  
cyclotoine
Senior Member
 
cyclotoine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Yukon, Canada
Posts: 8,772
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 10 Posts
pics!
__________________
1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear
cyclotoine is offline  
Old 10-20-14, 10:41 AM
  #3  
jyl
Senior Member
 
jyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,642

Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 43 Times in 28 Posts
Peter Winnen's middle name is Johannes and he is 5' 7" - so maybe . . .

You might be able to reach him via https://www.peterwinnenclassic.eu/over-peter-winnen

Not sure if you bought the frame or a complete bike, but any chance it looks like


Last edited by jyl; 10-20-14 at 10:45 AM.
jyl is offline  
Old 10-20-14, 02:24 PM
  #4  
Zieleman
Senior Member
 
Zieleman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 747

Bikes: Enough for now

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by cyclotoine View Post
pics!
+1

if it is, that's quite a score
Zieleman is offline  
Old 10-21-14, 01:32 AM
  #5  
slatanic
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
slatanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the great information !

Here are some pictures. The forks are not original I believe (Or are not the original colour anyway)

If it was Peter Winnin's bike it would be unreal


Originally Posted by Zieleman View Post
+1

if it is, that's quite a score
:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
$_57 (1).jpg (101.1 KB, 114 views)
File Type: jpg
$_57 (3).jpg (99.4 KB, 75 views)
File Type: jpg
$_57 (7).jpg (93.7 KB, 81 views)
slatanic is offline  
Old 10-21-14, 05:23 AM
  #6  
jyl
Senior Member
 
jyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,642

Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 43 Times in 28 Posts
If you ever contact him and find out, please come back and let us know. And post pics of the assembled bike, of course!

Have you asked at the Yahoo SBDU Group? They are the real experts and might have more information.
jyl is offline  
Old 10-21-14, 05:38 AM
  #7  
slatanic
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
slatanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the great help !!

I emailed Peter Winnin earlier & will of course let you know anything that turns up.

If it turns out to be Peter Wennin's bike then I would be inclined to keep it in "Original" condition. You can restore a bike many time s but its only original once

How do I find the Yahoo SBDU group?

Once again, thanks for the great help !! it is greatly appreciated.


Shane.


Originally Posted by jyl View Post
If you ever contact him and find out, please come back and let us know. And post pics of the assembled bike, of course!

Have you asked at the Yahoo SBDU Group? They are the real experts and might have more information.
slatanic is offline  
Old 10-21-14, 05:51 AM
  #8  
DTSs
Senior Member
 
DTSs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Montgomery, Texas
Posts: 53

Bikes: Torelli Super Strada, Phase3 Stowe Tetra, Schwinn Super Sport

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by slatanic View Post
How do I find the Yahoo SBDU group?
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...TEAM_PROS/info

Great find!
DTSs is offline  
Old 10-21-14, 05:55 AM
  #9  
The Golden Boy 
Extraordinary Magnitude
 
The Golden Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,017

Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT

Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2360 Post(s)
Liked 1,002 Times in 592 Posts
Congratulations!

I hope it is that bike- I love seeing "then and now" type things- and it's always cool to know the provenance of something old that you have.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*

Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!

"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
The Golden Boy is offline  
Old 10-21-14, 09:13 AM
  #10  
slatanic
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
slatanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DTSs View Post
Thanks
slatanic is offline  
Old 10-21-14, 04:02 PM
  #11  
Zieleman
Senior Member
 
Zieleman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 747

Bikes: Enough for now

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by slatanic View Post
I emailed Peter Winnin earlier & will of course let you know anything that turns up.

Peter Wennin
Peter Winnin
please please tell me you spelled his name correctly when you emailed the great Peter Winnen
Zieleman is offline  
Old 10-21-14, 06:46 PM
  #12  
embankmentlb
Senior Member
 
embankmentlb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North, Ga.
Posts: 2,172

Bikes: 3Rensho-Aerodynamics, Bernard Hinault Look - 1986 tour winner, Guerciotti, Various Klein's & Panasonic's

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked 121 Times in 58 Posts
That would be so cool if it was one of his. I hope it works out!
embankmentlb is offline  
Old 10-22-14, 10:04 AM
  #13  
jyl
Senior Member
 
jyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,642

Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 43 Times in 28 Posts
By the way, if you are looking for a way to verify if it is 753, a 753 bare frame w/o fork should weigh about 1600-1700 grams. A 531 frame w/o fork about 2000-2200 grams. This one should be on the low end of that range, because it is small.

Ideally you'd strip the frame (remove the fork, headset, bottle cage, downtube cable stops, and bottom bracket) but you can adjust for whatever is hard to remove.
jyl is offline  
Old 10-23-14, 01:50 AM
  #14  
slatanic
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
slatanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Zieleman View Post
please please tell me you spelled his name correctly when you emailed the great Peter Winnen
Ha ha ha .. My bad.. I must have been suffering brain fade in the afternoon Rest assured I spelled it correctly

Any man to have 2 corners named after himself on Alpe d'Huez deserves the title "Great"

Last edited by slatanic; 10-23-14 at 01:59 AM.
slatanic is offline  
Old 10-23-14, 01:53 AM
  #15  
slatanic
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
slatanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jyl View Post
By the way, if you are looking for a way to verify if it is 753, a 753 bare frame w/o fork should weigh about 1600-1700 grams. A 531 frame w/o fork about 2000-2200 grams. This one should be on the low end of that range, because it is small.

Ideally you'd strip the frame (remove the fork, headset, bottle cage, downtube cable stops, and bottom bracket) but you can adjust for whatever is hard to remove.
Thanks, That's good advice. I will. It will be interesting to see.
slatanic is offline  
Old 10-23-14, 04:50 AM
  #16  
RobbieTunes
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,386 Times in 895 Posts
excellent score
RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 10-23-14, 04:59 AM
  #17  
Michael Angelo 
Senior Member
 
Michael Angelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hurricane Alley , Florida
Posts: 3,906

Bikes: Treks (USA), Schwinn Paramount, Schwinn letour,Raleigh Team Professional, Gazelle GoldLine Racing, 2 Super Mondias, Carlton Professional.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 15 Posts
The bike in the picture and the one you have are 2 different sizes, just thought you would like to know.
Michael Angelo is offline  
Old 10-23-14, 07:08 AM
  #18  
slatanic
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
slatanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Michael Angelo View Post
The bike in the picture and the one you have are 2 different sizes, just thought you would like to know.
HI Michael Angelo

Comparing the one I bought & the picture of Peter Winnen's bike, the headstock seems to be a 56 is on PW's bike alright. Hmmmm.

Thanks for that.
slatanic is offline  
Old 10-24-14, 04:55 AM
  #19  
slatanic
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
slatanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've gotten some great information from over the past few days on different forums but am no wiser to the provenance of the bike. Its not the end of the world (It is what it is) but it would be nice to know. What we know or can presume based on the general consensus of comments (Open to debate here):

* The bike is an SBDU from 1987.
* It does not have a SBDU decal or a 753 decal.
* Forks have been replaced at some time.
* It seems to be the second bike of a "PJ"
* PJ was no giant but good enough to have 2 bikes.
* The bike is more likely to be 753 if it was from a professional team but not necessarily.
(Weighing it will tell the truth)
* There was no obvious PJ on the Raleigh Panasonic team around that time. (Peter J Winnen apparently rode a 56" & photos from the time support this)

So was it a sponsored amateur rider ?... Well according to Hillary Stone on a post of the provenance of a TT bike a while back:Information wanted about Beryl Burton & the frames she used - Page 4 | Retrobike

"After Mike left the SBDU in 1982 there were lots of changes – frames for amateur riders were no longer given their initials and date – ........
There is a clear distinction between amateur riders and pro riders in my opinion. But where it is blurry seems to be with sposored amateur riders.......
I have had several frames from Raleigh pro and sponsored amateur riders in the 1990s – some have had the initials stamped on the frame as well as an SBDU number – more one of these frames was built from 853 so that dates the continued use of SB numbers until after 1995! Some have the rider's name and some not......


So could it be possible & this is only a thought; that the bike could have belonged to another professional team & was resprayed at some stage afterwards in the natty Panasonic colours? What other professional teams were out there at the time?

This could be completely off the wall but what do I know Any opinions or mild abuse would be welcomed

Thanks again Shane.
slatanic is offline  
Old 11-03-14, 06:23 AM
  #20  
slatanic
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
slatanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Update...

Frame arrived Surprisingly the fork numbers match. PJ2 87. I checked to see if the original number was possibly interfered with & ... no its good.
slatanic is offline  
Old 11-03-14, 07:01 AM
  #21  
Ed.
Senior Member
 
Ed.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Posts: 1,539

Bikes: 1938 Raleigh Record Ace (2), 1938 Schwinn Paramount, 1961 Torpado, 1964? Frejus, 1980 Raleigh 753 Team Pro, Moulton, other stuff...

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
That's great! Nice score. I certainly enjoy mine.
Ed. is offline  
Old 11-03-14, 12:10 PM
  #22  
jyl
Senior Member
 
jyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,642

Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 43 Times in 28 Posts
What are the tell tale signs of a respray?
jyl is offline  
Old 11-06-14, 08:58 AM
  #23  
jyl
Senior Member
 
jyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,642

Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 43 Times in 28 Posts
I see over in the SBDU Yahoo Group that the bare frame weighs appx 1600 grams. So that confirms it is 753. The 753 decals are available . . .
jyl is offline  
Old 11-07-14, 06:28 AM
  #24  
slatanic
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
slatanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sorry I haven't replied sooner jyl, for some reason the screen freezes when I press submit The spray job on the forks is very good but there is significant overspray on the stem & the Raleigh decals are not lacquered.

I will try again to upload a photo of the bike as I completed a dry build to see if everything fitted.
slatanic is offline  
Old 11-07-14, 06:31 AM
  #25  
slatanic
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
slatanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
No luck with uploading the photo but here is a link:

https://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/dow....php?id=293182
slatanic is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.