interesting eBay fiasco
 

I know there are many here who dislike eBay, for whatever reason. And those who love it, for whatever reason. I used to be one of the latter, but at the moment I'm one of the former.

Some time ago I bought an old bike doodah on eBay. It was in England. I put a snipe on it, didn't expect to win, but I did. So I paid for it and sat back and expected it to surprise me when it arrived.

I'm not going to tell you what item it was, because that would let you figure out who the seller was, and that would imply I somehow blame him for what ensued. Well, I don't blame him, so I'm not divulging his identity.

But the item never arrived. It was delivered (this is documented) but not to me. The USPS has documentation for when they delivered it; and I have documentation that I was here at my office at the time. The USPS has the (illegible) signature of the person who inadvertently received it, but no record of where they delivered it. They have a record that two days later, the person who had the package gave it back to the postal carrier. We don't know what conversation occurred at that time. We know they sent the package back to England. And the seller has it. He freely admits this; he even sent me photographs of the package, showing that it was correctly addressed.

By the time the item got back to him, I had long ago opened a "case" with eBay. They checked up on the tracking number and saw that the item was delivered, and closed the case. It's not easy to get me really annoyed, but that did it.

Getting a real person on the phone at eBay is not easy, but I spent enough time on hold that I actually managed it. Here's where things get really weird. Ebay knows I paid for the item. Ebay knows I don't have it. Ebay knows it was sent back to the seller. But since they have documentation the USPS delivered it, and in my zip code no less, their job is done. I can't leave the seller feedback, positive, negative, or anything. I can't demand the seller refund anything, even my purchase price. Ebay suggested I ask the seller do the right thing and send it back to me; but they will have no part in my efforts. I asked if he can sell it again on eBay; and they said yes, as far as they're concerned, that's within his rights.

I have emailed the seller asking him to send me a PayPal invoice so I can pay him to ship it to me again; and I'll wait a few days before I start calling him on the phone. We shall see.

Ugh. Sorry. I am not surprised that their automated system did not recognize the nuances of your case. But I am surprised that a real human being could not set it straight. Or put another way, if that human being does not have the ability to hit a couple of keys on the keyboard and make it right, then why bother having a human being there at all? I hope it works out for you; most people are decent, so I bet it will. Good luck though.

jim

My worst eBay experience was a week after we had moved from an apartment. I bought an item (SRAM Grip Shift, less than $20) and as I finalized the purchase I realized that I hadn't changed my shipping address. I immediately sent a message to the seller but it still went to the apartment.

Being a boxed item, it would be given to someone in the office. I went back to the apartment complex on the day it was delivered, but a newer asst. manager said they would never accept a package for someone that no longer lived there and kind of dismissed me. I wish one of the managers that I had known for the last 5 years had been there that day.

I didn't complain to the seller or eBay about it; just had to let that one go.

The interesting thing about your tale (and best of luck with getting it set right by the seller) is not much of a surprise: eBay wants to severely constrain their exposure in any dispute between "members" (or whatever term they use for people who pay for their service). They may talk a good talk about customer care but where the rubber hits the road they are merely the "facilitator" of (millions of) private transactions between private parties that they take hands away from if there's any whiff of trouble.
No surprise they want nothing to do with helping to resolve a simple problem that even a half-witted child could understand...but that's way over their self-imposed pay-grade. I've been through a similar bizarre "kafka-esque" episode with eBay and it can be very frustrating, but they won't budge...or change.

When both the seller and the buyer have done the right thing, I'm not surprised eBay will take the "**** Happens!" attitude. The best outcome you can hope for when your delivery company screws up is that they will make good on the extra cost of shipping it twice. Of course that's going to take a couple hours of your life...

USPS has a way of delivering other people's letters and packages to my business address. But it's always a similar address one block west or one block south of me, so I just walk the stuff over and hand deliver it. Good way to meet the neighbors.

I understand your frustration with Ebay, but what about usps? Someone brings a package to them and says it was wrongly delivered to his address, so instead of delivering it to the addressee, they send it back to the UK? wtf?

The most surprising thing to me is that the package was actually returned to the sender. I suspect it was very close to you on the day of the original delivery. Perhaps the mistaken recipient could have walked it over to you. Many would have just kept it. I'm going to hold out hold out hope you and the seller can work something out re the shipping, and he will send the package to you again. If he refuses and puts it back up for sale, then I would like to know who the seller is so I can avoid his auctions.

I'm thinking UPS bears the liability on this as well; it was negligent in delivering the good and then returning it to the seller.

Oh, I'm pretty ticked at the post office, I don't mean to suggest otherwise! Someone screwed up, and it was one of their employees. They could probably even figure out who. Is that worthwhile? I'm not being vindictive here; someone made a mistake, and there's nothing they can do about that. They have promised to reimburse what it costs me if I can get the seller to send the thing again. I've talked to three USPS people and they are all appalled, and all admit that someone in their institution messed up.

Yeah, that happens to me all the time, and I mentioned that to the most helpful of the USPS representatives I talked to. She laughed, thanked me, and told me that it's not only not my job to do that, but technically not even legal. She did not threaten to prosecute, and did not tell me to cease and desist.



No, I'm not absolving the USPS of anything. They understand it's their (institutional) fault. But realistically, there is only one thing they can do to help, and they have offered to do it. It depends on the seller to do the right thing, and they can't make him. The USPS has not been paid to do anything; they have a reciprocal agreement with the Royal Mail. The USPS has already lost on this matter, and they stand to lose more. There is no way they can profit from doing the right thing, but they seem willing to do it.


In contrast, I know it's not eBay's fault, but they do have the power to help. If the seller doesn't want to do the right thing, they have ways to encourage him. But they won't do anything. They could at least allow me to leave him negative feedback, if he won't do the right thing; but eBay won't let me do that. Not only that, but eBay has already profited from this. I'm not asking them for money; their profit is ensured. There is no way they can lose from doing the right thing, but they still won't do it.

I assume you paid through PayPal. Do you have 1) a PayPal line of credit, 2) allow them to direct debit from your bank, or 3) do you use a credit card? If you used a credit card and cannot resolve the matter, I would open a case with the credit card company in hopes they will do a chargeback to PayPal.

One of my first transactions on eBay was about 7 or 8 years ago when I got scammed out of ~$500 when I purchased a "camera" that didn't actually exist. As I was unable to reach anyone on the phone and kept getting canned responses using online systems, my only option was to open a case with my credit card issuer who determined I did not receive the goods in question and refunded me the money. Later, after considerable sleuthing by me and a couple folks who formed an online posse, the scammer was located and he ended up with a member of the constabulary visiting his home and arresting him. The guy ended up paying me restitution totaling the amount for which I had been scammed. The Attorney General in GA brought charges against the guy and I planned to go to GA to testify in the case, but at the last moment the state dropped the charges against the guy because he paid restitution to everyone he had scammed.

What a mess... Hopefully the dude in England will come through for you.

I've had a slew of terrible ebay experiences in the last year. I had something like three more or less bad transactions in a row. The first was I ordered a brook cambium, seller said they were out of stock and expecting soon. Okay, I waited.... then I got shipping notification (but no message from the seller)... then an envelope shows up that says sorry we are still waiting for stock and it shows the item as delivered! I had to open a case, then re-open it, many phone calls, send in some scans, sign and affidavit and finally they refunded 100%. It was a huge waste of time and energy but at least I got the refund. More recently I got a set of wheels, both rims are cracked or irreparably dented. Sold as all good. Seller says send it back but refuses to pay return shipping. I open a case. ebay says their is nothing they can do because it is international... I leave the case open and pester the seller. He even asks me to leave positive feedback at one point and he will then issue a partial refund for an agreed amount. It's wheels shipped internationally so I would loose $75 if I had to return them, better to settle on a partial refund to make the outlay worth the value of the hubs. I reply and say sure, thanking the seller, and almost do it... then I realize he is trying to trick me so I email back and say no. After many many ignored messages I send one final message indicating it is clear he has chosen to ignore me and I guess I will eat it and just leave negative feedback. Finally, he issues the partial refund through the ebay dispute and it comes out okay. The was an absolute dishonest crook who should not be on ebay. I left neutral feedback with a scathing comment. I made a mistake with that because it looked like a good deal. Obviously no one else was willing to gamble on the red flags... oh well.

Anyway, Rhm, I hope the seller does the decent thing and sends it back. I am surprised you can't reopen the case, I was able to do that on the phone with someone. If you can get through to someone they can be reasonable. If the evidence is there I found ebay is pretty good about it. If they accept the evidence that you do not have the item and the seller has it still they should be able to change that. I'd keep trying if the seller refuses to send it back.

That is a frustrating experience. My most recent experience with ebay:

Tuesday night two of my listings went from calculated shipping to free shipping and sold. The rest of my auctions had the same shipping policy where shipping was calculated based on location and weight. In my My eBay it listed them as free but when you click on it it shows the calculated rate. I called and first they hung up on me...twice...then they were like...huh, that's weird...look at that. That's it.

Shipping dimensions and weight conversions are never consistent between metric and imperial. It converts itself at a 1:1 ratio every now and then. Sometimes my 4oz item suddenly becomes 4kg but has a dimension of 4cm. Sometimes it's ok. Getting to the point where I have to manually check every auction to ensure this doesn't happen. Very annoying.

Win some, lose some. Sorry, but it happens to everyone. In this case, the seller didn't do anything wrong, so if he/she is reputable, they will either give you a refund or re-send it to you.

I got stung twice on Ebay:

Once as a seller, someone bought something with a stolen credit card (supposedly) and a day short of 1 year, the credit card company reversed the charge and took money right out of my bank account. That was fun to deal with. At the end, I was out $500, shipping / insurance fees, and Ebay/PayPal would not even refund me the fees associated with the sale, so I was out like $570 total plus merchandise.

As a buyer, I bought a lens for my camera last year. Everything was good until I got the delivery attempt notice and instead of picking up the $400 lens from the Post Office, I got lazy and signed for redelivery. Of course, that was my fault and when I got home from work the next day, there was no lens even though the tracking # showed that it was delivered.

Good luck on your quest for an amicable outcome.

Bummer. Rare instances but have to accept its not a foolproof system. IMHO, USPS is the culprit for the majority of buyer / seller issues.

Back to ebay: Sometimes it feels as if ebay execs know they're too big to fail. I couldn't imagine the number of cases they deal with in a single day, but do they 'really' care for the few dissastified? Out of the endless 'services' offered they get paid no matter what. The ebay C.S. get their paychecks too, no matter what. And do the customers ever get to see the C.S. Relations 'how well did we do' feedback reports?? LOL

That said, I'm getting a bit of burnout from fleabay Euro but not from US sellers.
I've had two recent unfavorable experiences from across the pond. Both situations in not receiving items. Separate sellers, both resolved the problems and we had good communication. But ironically, the items scored were absurdly cheap and basically a giveaway. Used the basic nominal cost shipping services, no official postal confirmation but had the ebay indications showing they were shipped. Payment refunded, sellers were cordial. Second guessing but maybe they didn't want to lose the items for such a low sale and maybe never sent. Whatever, nothing gained, nothing lost.

One more and C&V bike related:
I've been following another overseas seller with extreme low feedback. The buyer FB are odd as well, some with buyer id as private. He has some really unusual and kind of hard to find bike related items. I keep seeing the same items available again after they've been bid and sold prior. I don't know how many circa 1930-50 identical items this seller has but he did explain the buyer didn't pay. But again, its the same situation with repeat occurrences. Weird to see how this seller plays. I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt but I'm steering clear.

I have had good fortune with Ebay purchases, but this reminded me of an incident I had when I bought from a different source.

I have everything shipped to my PO Box if possible, and entered my PO Box for delivery on a pretty large item. I then received notification that it was sent via FedEx, and it was back before the "hybrid" services where they would hand off to the USPS. So, I tried contacting Fedex, and the seller, and got as runaround, so I assumed I would have to wait for it to get back to the vendor, and then have them ship to my home address.

So, instead, Fedex showed the item as delivered. I checked my PO box, and (as expected) nothing... I called and eventually got hold of a real person, and was told that the item was delivered to an address where I used to live before I bought my home 3 or 4 years earlier... So, I went to my old apartment, and knocked on the door, and said, "This is strange, but I used to live here..." and he broke in, opened the door and pointed to a box as he said, "Then this must be yours."

[MENTION=73614]rhm[/MENTION] frankly I'm surprised that eBay didn't refund your purchase. I have been on eBay for 16 years, and like you, have had bouts of frustration with them. Except, most of those have been with me as a seller, not as a buyer. I've never had anything but great customer service as a buyer, and have always had my issues resolved after some amount of time and patience.

Recently, as a seller, I got annoyed when I tried printing out a shipping label for UPS through eBay, but the UPS punchout failed to let me log in, despite me having the correct credentials. It was for an item that had sold close to 24 hours prior, and to preserve my status as an "above average" (ha!-- like the kids of Lake Wobegon!) seller, I had to have the label printed within 24 hours of the auction closing... i.e., that evening. After getting on the phone with eBay CS, who were able to correct the UPS login issue, the shipping price had jumped $17 over what the calculator had told me when I listed the item. The seller had already completed checkout and paid the original shipping price. Ergo, I'd have to eat the $17 difference. Back on the phone with eBay CS, they were happy to credit me the $17, seeing that there was a calculation glitch beyond anyone's control. So the whole point is, I don't understand why eBay CS wasn't able to parse the facts of your fiasco, realize that the automated system isn't equipped to deal with your exact situation without human involvement, and make an executive decision to just refund you your damn purchase price.

How does ebay know the item was returned to the seller? Has the seller confirmed that with them? I'm sure that eBay has been told more than once by a buyer that "I never received the item" even when records show it delivered by people trying to defraud them. Now I don't for one second think this is the case with you, but not everyone is honest. eBay can only go by the series of documentation established and that works 99.9% of the time.

My anger would be directed more to USPS as they are the ones who screwed up and they even admitted it. I had a similar instance happen; I was watching for delivery of an item and noticed it was shown as deliver when I checked the tracking number, yet I had not received it. I went to my post office (luckily only 1/2 block away) and they checked and found that it was sent to the wrong post office. The USPS corrected the problem and had it to me the next day. Since then I alway keep track of the package by watching the tracking number whenever possible.

If the seller is an honest person, they will re-ship the item to you without haste; I'm surprised they didn't offer that when they sent you the photo of the returned item. Hopefully this will all work out for you.

Well, they have the tracking number. They could check the USPS tracking website that says the thing was returned to the seller.
Or they could check the Royal Mail website that says the thing was delivered to the seller's address on September 26.
Or they could contact him. He's told me he got it, so I have no doubt he would tell ebay he got it.

My point is: they don't care. Ebay does not question my story. If they did, I could prove my story. But they won't give me that opportunity.

Well, of course! But we all make mistakes. I can't be that angry at them if they admit their mistake and do what they can to correct it.

I believe he will; though, as you say, without haste. Can't blame him there.

back your paypal account with a credit card and always keep the account zeroed out.

then you can dispute the credit card charge.

it's my extra insurance, but luckily i've never had to resort to it.

Is the hang up the need to pay for shipping a second time? and or not wanting to use the (assuming low cost lowest effort) service as the USPS goofed up and does not want an instant replay?

In the what if file, if the item was sent a second time via a more expensive (private) service, and you had to pay up front, would that cost be tolerable? Or, could / would the USPS reimburse you?

Structurally not correct, but it reads like a no win scenario, the question is if the magnitude of the loss in total justifies trying to get things resolved?

I don't know, but I suspect the main hangup is only an imbalance in the sense of urgency. I'm hopping mad, while he's merely inconvenienced.

Yeah, that's an interesting question! But I don't know. Call me naive (you won't be the first or the last) but I think they'll be extra vigilant to not repeat this mistake.

That's the flaw in the USPS tracking system. It was scanned at delivery only scanning it doesn't mean it was delivered to the correct address. If the person gave it back they should have tried to redeliver but I guess it was easier to just send it back.

Is the seller refusing to send it back even though you offered to pay for shipping again? If they don't want the bother are they refusing to refund your money via PPal? I understand that option is no longer available because of the time frame but they can simply send payment to your account. Doesn't have to be labeled a refund... That in itself seems shady that they wouldn't just put the money back into your PPal and relist the item....

Max Bryant

Right! But eBay can't acknowledge that possibility. Who knows. Obviously someone didn't read the address on the package. Beyond that, I won't speculate.

No, he's not refusing anything at all. He's just not as impatient as I, and who can blame him for that? This thread is really not about what the seller will do, or when he'll do it; it's about my impatience and annoyance at eBay.

In my early EBAY days, I won a set of pedals and awaited their arrival by USPS. A week later, they arrived...or at least the USPS box did. It had tape on it where the box had been ripped open (and these are a pain in the butt to open when sealed) with an official note saying that this was the way it was received and sent by USPS. Yeah, right!!!

The seller made the mistake of writing BICYCLE PEDALS on the box, and apparently someone at USPS needed them, ripped the box open, and resealed it with tape noting that this was the way it was sent out.
I contacted the seller, explained the story, and he refunded my money. He said the box was sealed WITHOUT TAPE and closed perfectly. But he admitted that writing what was on it was a huge mistake.

So, I got a refund... the seller lost money...and a Postal employee apparently got free pedals. I can only hope Karma will rear its ugly head one day...

That's where Postal Inspectors come into play. I'd have reported it to them and someone probably would have gotten fired.