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Friction shifting on 10 speed cassette?

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Friction shifting on 10 speed cassette?

Old 11-21-14, 02:13 PM
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coggs
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Friction shifting on 10 speed cassette?

Has anybody had much luck (or even attempted) using vintage friction shifting on a bike with a current 10 speed cassette (130mm)? I'm wondering if the travel would be adequate to span the entire added width. I suspect not. In my case I'd like to try and utilize many old school components on a more modern frame. I have a Campy SR rear derailleur (Gen 2 circa 1974-1980) and was wondering if it's maximum travel would allow it to mate with at least 8 or 9 of the cogs on a 10 speed cassette. I know the max cog size is 28 for this particular RD.
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Old 11-21-14, 02:24 PM
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IIRC the limit might be 8 cogs, depending on spacing. I run 7 without a problem.
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Old 11-21-14, 02:29 PM
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have you ever tried to find a gear on a 10 speed cassette using non-indexed down tube shifters? 6 or 7 speed is fine, but when the cogs on the cassette are so close together, shifting and finding the right gear can be frustrating. just a thought.
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Old 11-21-14, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bconneraz View Post
have you ever tried to find a gear on a 10 speed cassette using non-indexed down tube shifters? 6 or 7 speed is fine, but when the cogs on the cassette are so close together, shifting and finding the right gear can be frustrating. just a thought.
This is my experience too. I wouldn't go over 7.
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Old 11-21-14, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bconneraz View Post
have you ever tried to find a gear on a 10 speed cassette using non-indexed down tube shifters? 6 or 7 speed is fine, but when the cogs on the cassette are so close together, shifting and finding the right gear can be frustrating. just a thought.
Yes to this. Not for the ham fisted, or even the ham hock fisted.

I had a 9-sp rear run by 6-sp frictions, and while it worked, you had to avoid bmps when shifting. Too precise for my skill level.
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Old 11-21-14, 06:15 PM
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There was an interesting blog post on this a few years ago:

https://theeverydaycyclist.wordpress...a-cog-too-far/

Originally, the author thought it should be easier to find gear on a large cluster of gears. But he found the experience degraded when he got to nine.
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Old 11-21-14, 06:18 PM
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Good point gentlemen. Just measured an Ultra 7 freewheel and it's 30mm between the small and large for a cog to cog spacing of about 5mm. A 10 speed cassette is 40mm wide for a gap spacing of 4.44. I can see how that would take a feather touch to select a gear. Not worth it if I'm only going to be able to use 7 or maybe 8 of the cassette cogs anyway.

Last edited by coggs; 11-21-14 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 11-21-14, 06:24 PM
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I might try it with Suntour Barcons, but not with downtube shifters.
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Old 11-21-14, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
I might try it with Suntour Barcons, but not with downtube shifters.
This^ I have done it with several bikes. The last one was a 1982 Trek 412 BUT I installed a modern Shimano 105 rear mech. I used a 9 speed 12-25 cassette. Worked like a charm for me with the ratcheting in the shifters. I have not tried 10 speed, yet.

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Old 11-21-14, 07:38 PM
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I've used Dia Compe barcons on a 9-speed cassette and Rivendell Silvers dt shifters on an 8-speed. Both shifters are ratchety... which helps. I always thought the downtube shifters were better. Having less cable sounds like it would be an advantage. But yes, 8-speed shifter on downtube was definitely crisper.

Most of my bikes have DT shifters these days. What's STI?
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Old 11-21-14, 08:07 PM
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My Surly Cross Check has modern 9 speed cassette with Shimano bar end shifters. Initially I was all over using friction - my new best friend. I've had the bike 3 years - run it mostly on indexed. Friction with that many cogs just wasn't enjoyable. I do enjoy friction on 5 or 6 speed freewheels though. Haven't tried it on 7.
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Old 11-21-14, 09:18 PM
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I run 9 speed on 2 bikes no problem, I ran 10 speed on another that has since been sold. I will say that it takes a learned hand to shift precisely. I can shift into any cog I want with no issue, even up steep hills I can select to move up or down 1 cog easily. I recommend a new chain and lube shifters properly the if you try it, makes a world of difference. Also when using anything more then 7 speed you will not get that "ker-clunk" positive chain engagement feeling when the chain steps into place.
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Old 11-21-14, 11:50 PM
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I used downtube shifters with 10 speed a Campy cassette and Record rear derailleur on my 1998 De Bernardi for several years. It worked fine but required every millimeter of travel that the shifter could provide. The lever movement went from stop to stop but shifted cleanly. I did finally convert it to Ergo and am more happy with it now. Still, I use downtube shifters on many of my bikes. 10 speed downtube can be done with good function.
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Old 11-22-14, 12:21 AM
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I have friction bar end shifters with an 8 speed cassette and it works just great.
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Old 11-22-14, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by gerv View Post
Most of my bikes have DT shifters these days. What's STI?
Just wear a condom, and you won't have to worry about it.
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Old 11-22-14, 07:02 AM
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Just to provide a comparative data point, I'm running 2 x 10 friction DT shifting on my Cycles Toussaint Velo Routier. While not C&V, the SRAM 12-28 cassette plays very nicely with the MicroShift short cage RD and Dia-Compe non-indexed DT shifters. Changing gears takes a practiced touch to avoid overshifts, but I found myself accustomed to it after a few minutes of riding. This is how CT specs the bike.



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Old 11-22-14, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by AZORCH View Post
Just to provide a comparative data point, I'm running 2 x 10 friction DT shifting on my Cycles Toussaint Velo Routier. While not C&V, the SRAM 12-28 cassette plays very nicely with the MicroShift short cage RD and Dia-Compe non-indexed DT shifters. Changing gears takes a practiced touch to avoid overshifts, but I found myself accustomed to it after a few minutes of riding. This is how CT specs the bike.
Just looked at the CT web site. Very interesing!
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Old 11-22-14, 08:41 AM
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I ran 10 speeds on my 85 Ironman for years using all the original Shimano 600/6207 stuff (except for the modern Shimano hub laced to the original rear rim) and a 10 speed chain, which was pre-SIS friction.

Never had a problem finding the right gear, but it did take a delicate touch.

Sure do miss that bike...
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Old 11-22-14, 08:48 AM
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I like friction over a modern hyper glide cassette. So smooth. I've only tried it with 8 speed, however.
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Old 11-22-14, 09:34 AM
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I believe Shimano made 10spd DT shifters for Dura Ace 7900. I was thinking of putting it on my C&V Allez with Dura Ace 7900 FD/RD at one point but decided that I'd just keep the Dura Ace 7400 on it. With the little amount of riding that I've done on that bike, it didn't seem to be worth the effort.
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Old 11-22-14, 10:02 AM
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I ran 8 speed on a Centurian Semi-Pro with no problem, very pleasant. However, when I tried a 9 speed after maybe 40 or 50 miles i decided this was either beyond my skill level, just too much work/time to get the feel down, and if anything was distracting me (traffic, road hazard, etc.) it was impossible.
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Old 11-22-14, 03:08 PM
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I've only friction-shifted 5/6/7-speed. 7- and 8-speed are so close in spacing that I imagine 8 would fine as well.
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Old 11-29-14, 03:35 PM
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Hi all, I have just installed a setup of 8 sp with suntour barcons, friction of course with the ratcheting action. I think it should work better than it does - I either have loose springs on my old rear derailleur (Deerhead) or cable issues or maybe the shifters are loose. I haven't figured it out, some in-between shifts and auto shifts under load.

On the other hand,on my commuter/tourer I run 9 speeds in friction with shimano barend shifters (modern dura ace) w/ tiagra rear derailleur, and the shifting is ultra-quiet and ultra smooth.
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Old 11-29-14, 04:38 PM
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Maybe a small point but......
I run an 8 sp cassette. Originally with Suntour ratchet/DT and it worked fine. When I got a set of Simplex Retros - it was worlds better and I think it has to do with the slight amount of play/overshift in the Suntour ratchet mechanism. It wasn't difficult, but required a little more finesse to land right on the cog. The Simplexes just move exactly as much as you want, any direction and they stay there. My Shimano index levers, set to friction, perform similarly to the Simplexes.
I don't know if it's just me or if anyone else has the same experience but I would guess a non-ratchet friction shifter, while fussy due to the closeness of the cogs, would shift better/easier than a ratchet mechanism on 9 and 10.
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Old 11-30-14, 10:42 AM
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I agree with every word. Ratcheting friction shifters just make it more difficult. I don't even like them with 5 speeds. Simplex Retrofrictions have probably spoiled both of us.
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