Freewheel volume
 

Are certain freewheels louder than others? My current daily rider has a Maillard Atom that seems about 3 times louder than the Japanese ones I've used. It also seems louder than the Maillard Helicomatic (same brand, different model) I have on my Peugeot. What gives?

Yes, some are just louder.

The Suntour Perfects I've used have been the loudest.

Yes. Adding oil will quiet them down some, but some are certainly louder than others. They're all fairly quiet compared to some of the obnoxiously loud modern cassette hubs. Overall, Regina freewheels sound the best, ATMO. :)

WHAT? I can't hear you!

Pastor Bob rebuilds them with some sort of grease, makes them very quiet.

[MENTION=42162]pastorbobnlnh[/MENTION], what's your secret?

In old TdF videos, the orchestra of Regina freewheels when coasting was terrific.

I've got a fairly loud Campagnolo freehub. I like it. It's an audible reminder to quit being lazy and start pedaling.

You can grease freewheels to quiet them, but be careful in cold weather---pawl springs are not particularly robust, and grease can keep the pawls from fully engaging.

I love tearing apart freewheels, cleaning & reassembling. I've done about 12-15 freewheels. Mostly SunTour & Shimano. When reassembling I use a very light application of bike grease - enough to hold the ball bearings to the lower race, then carefully sit the cog cluster on top while rotating. Then drip some Phil Wood Tenacious Oil in to thin down the grease. Use mostly Phil Wood on top race. Quiets things down a lot. I also use tiny amount of Tenacious Oil on the pawls.

I use Super Lube synthetic grease on most of my builds. It has a temp range which is on the order of 500 degrees without affect viscosity. It is also very water and salt resistant. I also add a drop of oil to the pivot point on the pawls.
See above. Greasing makes a big difference, but of course you have to disassemble to do so (in most cases). Oiling is really only a temporary, messy, short-term option. :p
Thanks Jim! You're da man! :D

I've got one of those riveted together Shimanos -- 14-34 6 speed -- that is so quiet I worry the pawls may be getting ready to get stuck. Should probably clean it and drip in some oil just for peace of mind.

By the by…short of disassembling them… what is the recommended viscosity oil you use on freewheels? I had always read that thin oil was da kine. But not sure. Thicker oils are harder to get inside. Your preferences?

I used to use Sturmey-Archer oil.

Now Amsoil synthetic.

On a somewhat related note: (Pardon the pun)
Johnnyrandom: Bike Sounds | The Red Bulletin

The two loudest I have are the old Campy and Zeus alloy freewheels. The Zeus is still loud, even after the good Pastor's recent overhaul, so I think that one just wants attention no matter what :)

Kudos to all of you willing to take these apart. Even more to those of you who can put them back together again! I've never had the sack to try it myself.

DD

Why would quietness indicate it's getting ready to get stuck?

I love a quiet freewheel myself, and I can't understand how people on expensive modern bikes can put up with all that chatter.

You all should thank the lord for your good hearing. The last time heard a freewheel click I was in middle school.

Damn, I miss that sound. (Among many, many others)

:(

The old Atom freewheel on my early 70's Grand Record was the loudest I have ever used. Suntour Perfects are about mid range in term of volume (depending on how well lubed they are). The higher end Shimano are pretty quiet. My experience is limited though.

Are freehubs generally louder than freewheels? That has not been my experience with Shimano or Campy branded hubs, mine have generally been very pleasing.

DON'T WORRY, TIM - I'LL ALWAYS TYPE IN CAPS SO YOU DON'T MISS ANYTHING :)

dd

I'll second this!

Personally I enjoy a loud freewheel, especially when a large peloton coasts by.

I've been using Phil Tenacious Oil in my freewheels for some time. It's most likely chainsaw bar and chain lube or something like that. While the 4 oz. bottle is expensive, it's convenient and a little bit goes a long way.

After oiling they run very quietly but remember a little bit goes a long way.

I clean up the outside of the freewheel as much as possible so that no grit gets into the bearings then apply a few drops of Phil Tenacious Oil at a time and let it seep in while spinning the cogs. You can feel the oil as it soaks in and quiets the bearing and pawl sounds.

If the freewheel is unmounted I lay it flat on some paper towels to absorb any oil that seeps out the back.

If it's on a wheel then I lay the wheel flat while applying the oil. After the oils soaks in I lean the wheel against a wall to let any extra oil drip out onto a paper towel on the floor. It WILL drip out!

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=419643 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=419644

Note: You have to remove some cogs on some freewheels like the the Sachs Aris models to access an oil hole to lube them. Also some Suntour Winner Pro models have labyrinth seals like the Sach Aris. They have a small oil hole inside the threaded back side where they mount on the hub. I carefully clean all of the crud out of the threads before applying oil.

Too much oil IS NOT better.


verktyg :50:

Chas.

If you ever get a lot of water in a freewheel dousing it with WD40 will displace the water. Isopropyl rubbing alcohol will do the same thing. Both of them will flush the old oil out the the freewheel but can wash crud in so clean it carefully. Also compressed air will help dry out the WD40 or alcohol.

Apply lubricant of choice.


BTW, also works with a frozen freewheel.

verktyg :50:


Chas.

I don't mean to be contrary, but the hole in the side of the outer freewheel body on a Sachs and other models is not an oil port but a grease port. Every NOS Sachs I've dismantled had old brown peanut butter like grease inside. Every Sachs I've serviced has remnants of the same grease, unless it was completely flushed at some point.

While I will not say it is impossible to assemble a freewheel without using grease, it can be a real challenge that is nearly impossible on most models unless they have deeply recessed races (some Suntour models and some European freewheels).

I realize, there is significant debate over whether a freewheel should be oiled or greased, and in my experience, most here on C&V, seem to prefer oil. There are pros and cons with both approaches. Obviously if you enjoy a "vocal" freewheel you should use oil, and the lighter and the least amount, the louder.

If you want a quiet freewheel use grease. One way to grease a freewheel is to use the thread in tool which allows the injecting of grease into the freewheel from the back. The downside of this approach is that the freewheel is then fully flooded with grease--- grease in the races, grease in the pawls, and grease in the freewheel ratchet teeth. IMO, this is too much grease and in all the wrong places.

The best way to grease therefore is to take the freewheel apart, clean, replace rusted and bad bearings, and then grease just the races. As mentioned above, I also place a drop of high grade machine oil on the pawl pivots, and I rub the ratchet teeth with the same oil.

Another way to remove water from a freewheel or any other part is to place in an oven (convection is best) at about 175-200F for an hour plus.

Speaking of water contamination, this is why I use Super Lube synthetic grease. It is very water and salt resistant. This is especially helpful to those of us who ride in the winter where roads are salted for snow and ice.

Finally, I want to mention, freewheel bearings do rust, pit, and even fail by breaking. Pawls and springs can also do the same, but less frequently. The only way I know you can inspect and replace bad bearings is to take the freewheel apart, completely clean, and then inspect for damage.

I hope this is all helpful. :D

I surrender the floor to the delegate from New Hampshire - [MENTION=42162]pastorbobnlnh[/MENTION] :)

Pastor bob, I was writing for the lay folks.... (but accept that I'm not worthy in thine presence) ;)

I agree completely about using grease when rebuilding freewheels. Last fall I had a clicking noise on one of my bikes that was driving me nuts. I finally traced it down to an NOS Suntour Winner FW that was loose because of too many spacer shims used during assembly at the factory. I forgot how much fun rebuilding freewheels can be...

I like quiet freewheels and freehubs. Shimano freehubs seem to be packed in grease or at least the older ones that I have are. I've never done surgery on a freehub body but most Shimano hubs that I've torn apart were packed with a grease that remained soft for up to decades (unlike sacred white Campy lithium grease that hardens up after 5 years or so). Newer synthetic and semi-synthetic greases last for decades so that's probably what Shimano used.

Grease gets hard as the volatile components evaporate (turn to "peanut butter" or worse). Some kinds of grease like that designed for use in most automotive wheel bearings is very viscous to withstand the high heat and friction generated in those bearings.

The bearings in bicycles never reach those kinds of temperatures but... when I lived in New Mexico we used automotive wheel bearing grease because of the high heat experienced when bikes sat parked out in the sun.

The only drawbacks that I see (experienced too) from using grease in freewheels is: A. some viscous greases will get very stiff in cold weather and can cause the pawls to get sticky, B. some lesser quality greases harden up over time (like uber expensive Campy grease) and gum up the freewheeling action too.

For me, Phil Tenacious Oil is a happy medium. It works a lot like grease but it's easier to apply. ;)

I remember BITD (1970s) sacred, holy Italian Regina freewheels used very lightweight oil. They were loud and needed to be regularly oiled until all of the OEM lubed was washed out!

Speaking of which, I had 2 Regina freewheels lock up on me within a month's time. One was an uber sacred Oro and the other a bottom of the line model. Both happened during high speed descents on long, steep hills. Suddenly becoming a fixie rider at 35+ MPH is the kind of excitement I can do without!

Upon doing post mortems at our shop on both of those freewheels, we found that the bodies were packed with loose metal chips not cleaned out from the machining operations or put in during assembly by disgruntled employees!

Sachs Aris and Suntour Winner Pro freewheels with the grease ports have labyrinth seals to keep the dirt out and grease in. They date back at least 20+ years or so. I've had a few that were gummed up and I used a little bit of solvent applied through the grease ports to loosen them up. Next time I have one with a problem, I'll send to you to be rebuilt. :)

Unfortunately, it stinks up the house when I put a sewup wheel in the oven! The tires turn to mozzarella! :roflmao2:


verktyg :50:

Chas.

Chas,

In cold weather riding the Super Lube synthetic will still work. I'll ride below 20F and have not had any issues. :D

I've not used Phil's T-Oil. I'm certain it will get the job done well. :thumb:

Reginas do seem to lack grease and the old 5 speed models had deep recessed races. When I rebuild them I use Super Lube and they seem to be significantly happier freewheels. ;)

The seals on the Sachs Aris models are actually cages for the bearings to roll in. These are the easiest freewheels to service. :)

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I don't recommend tires and tubes in the oven. :eek: This is Bike Forums not Master Chef forums. :innocent: