Upgrading to a modern groupset
 

Morning,

Not sure the best place to post this and I'm sure the answer lies in many other chats here but I can't find it so your help would be greatly appreciated.

I'm thinking about upgrading one of my 80s steel road bikes with a 5+2 speed campagnolo c-record friction downtube shifting setup to a more modern (probably second hand) ergo' system (8/9/10 speed depending on what is available). I realise this will require coldsetting to 130mm, new wheels, new block, new chain, new rear derailleur and new cables and levers. However can someone tell me if I'll need a new front derailleur and new crankset? As I said it is currently a friction set up with a c-record crankset on a square taper BB.

Thanks in advance!

The only problem I've seen with older FD's is a bit of rub unless adjusted very well. This is on very few FD's, in my experience, notably 7-sp Shimano going to 8-sp. I've never seen a problem with Campy, and have used an NR FD before on a 10-sp Campy drivetrain. L shifting is, after all, friction for the most part, the FD goes where you tell it.

The only problems I've seen with older cranksets is ring width and gap width. Some older rings are too wide to cleanly engage the narrower modern chains. Some older cranksets, set up with narrower modern chains, can have a gap between the rings that a narrow chain falls into. I've never seen this happen in person, but it's quite possible. I've never had a problem, though, going from 6/7 up to 9sp using the 6/7 crankset. Not sure about your setup.

I was worried about that when I was using the 8 speed chain on my Trek 720's 5 speed setup. Hasn't happened even once. HOWEVER!!!... On my Voyageur SP, with the original 5 sp chain- it constantly stuck between the big and middle ring- and you'd just spin until you trimmed back in. It could be quite surprising.

Thanks that's great. I hadn't even thought of that (chain falling into the gap). I guess I'll give it a go and if I have to upgrade the FD and crankset then so be it but hopefully I can save myself a few £s.

Your best bet may be to find a complete donor bike, maybe a huge framed unpopular brand and simply take the group off of it.

Great idea and probably cheaper however getting another bike into my apartment past the girlfriend may be a struggle.

I've used nine and ten speed chains on a number of cranksets that originally had six speed axles behind them. I have not had the issue of the chain falling between the rings and they shift as good or better than they did with the original six speed chain. My front derailleurs are friction. If I were using STI "brifters" I would likely require a ramped & pinned set of chainrings along with the matching front derailleur for the system to work well because the STIs lack the infinite trimming that friction has. Try it and see what happens.

I've never cold set a frame. I just stick my 130mm axle between the 126mm dropouts, tighten the skewer and go ride my bike.

Chromeracer, I think you should perform the updating and let the result dictate whether a new FD and/or crank set is needed.

Brad

Thanks, all very helpful as always. I'll keep you posted...

If chainring width is a problem with the modern chain, you could probably just get new chainrings for your current crank.

You may also want to consider converting from 2x5 to 3x7. You could keep the friction shift, and possibly the derailleurs, as well.

When I converted the PKN-10 from 2x6 to 3x7, all I changed was the crankset (122mm BCD to 110+74mm BCD) and spindle.

I thought about that and whilst I love the downtube friction shifters on another retro build I just want to update this one with some fancy ergo shifters on the bars!

Old trick: Break down the donor bike and put the parts in a box. Much less conspicuous that way.

A word of caution: One of the design flaws of the c-record cranks is that if you throw your chain over the outer edge of the large ring, the chain can fall all the way down the length of the crank arm and wedge down by the crank bolt rather than land not he flat end of a traditionally shaped crank. This can wreck the beautiful finish on the c-record cranks. Be extra careful when trying to set up your new drivetrain. When switching to a narrower 9-/10-speed chain, adjust the outer limit of the front derailleur in little to account for the narrower chain and then adjust out as needed and don't power through the shifts until the front derailleur is dialed in.

Let's assume the Gitane mixte is ridden by the girlfriend. If your girlfriend will only let you have two bikes (Faggin & Pinarello), is she really marriage material? This time of courting sets an important precedent and foundation for your future! ;)

Excellent advice on all counts. I'll be sure to keep you updated on the bike and our wedding in the Summer!!

If you're in a big hurry to get it done, get a new crankset and FD. Don't waste time messing around. If you need to stay under a budget, take your time and try before you buy. If you're in a hurry AND under a tight budget...

What parts did you switch in? I have PKN10 myself, (i think you even posted in my thread about it), so I'm interested in keeping this thing on the road for a while, but French bike replacement parts are getting somewhat hard to find...

So I've got myself some Campagnolo 9 speed Chorus 'carbon BB system' shifters and a front mech which are pre-2001 and am on the hunt for a suitable rear mech and chainset. I am told the 2001 is relevant in terms of compatibility, can anyone help me with which sets will be suitable?

By that I mean, will athena, centaur/daytona, mirage, record etc rear mechs be compatible as it seems that 9 speed chorus rear mechs pre-2001 are very limited. Does anyone have experience of using a pre-2001 front mech and levers with a post-2001 rear mech?

If you don't get a good answer here, try Mechanics sub-forum.
I have a 9spd RD from 1999, but it is racing triple and with some scratches.

Ok,
I've upgraded my Colnago from 5x2 to 6, 7, and now 9 spd.

When I moved to 9 spd, I just cut the axle down to 126mm, adjusted the spacers, and used an off-center rim. It works nice. I spend a lot of time in the small sprockets on the rear, so I think it may also benefit the chain line. I may cold set it for 130mm... but the 126 is fine for now.

No changes to the front derailleur. I had changed to a 9-spd compatible Ultegra a while ago. I'm still using the original Campy friction downtube shifters, but the 9 spd with Ultegra does require essentially 100% of the range for the right shifter.

I've done a little research on the 9-spd rear derailleurs (I haven't paid a lot of attention to the front).

If you use a Campy cassette, then you should match the shifters and the rear derailleur.
On the other hand, if you use a Shimano cassette, then you should use "new" Campy shift levers, and "old" Campy derailleurs.

The way to recognize the old model of Campy derailleurs is to look for the "B-Screw" where the derailleur connects to the hanger. If the tension adjustment is with the B-Screw on the hanger, then it is the old style.

If the tension adjustment is on the cage, then it is the new style.

Campy Derailleur with B-Screw, old style 8 spd (9 speed is similar, but usually noted on the derailleur).
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=421813

Campy Derailleur without B-Screw, Cage Adjustment, new style 9 speed.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=421817

Thanks, I am definately not planning on mixing Campag with Shimano. My question referred more to the interchangeability of different campag ranges/eras. A slightly newer 9 Speed Veloce rear mech looks easier to come by than a period 9 speed chorus equivalent but will it work?

Here is a good reference page for cable pull.

Bicycles/Maintenance and Repair/Gear-changing Dimensions - Wikibooks, open books for an open world

It was the 9 speed that they changed from 1.4 to 1.5 "shift ratio".

So, with 9 speed, your ok with:
New 9 Shifters + New 9 (or 10) rear derailleur & any Campy 9 speed Cassette
Old 9 Shifters + Old 9 rear derailleur & any Campy 9 speed cassette.
New 9 Shifters + Old 9 rear derailleur & SHIMANO 9 speed cassette.

Thanks [MENTION=392454]CliffordK[/MENTION], that's exactly what I needed!