Ooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh dayaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

The frame has a very unusual rear dropout treatment for a steel bike. I'm almost certain that it's 650b.

Judging from the test-bike's photo, looks like a serious attempt to lower the top tube at both ends, in part because of the slightly larger wheels than a traditional 26" off-roader.
With such a short stem as shown (because of the use of a road bar), the rider does seem to be on a relatively small frame size.
The short stem would be in agreement, handling-wise, with a shallow headtube angle. But I agree it does look odd like that.

The last place I want my hands while riding off road would be on the lever hoods. It relies on the thumb joint to sustain the impact of any hidden undulation or tree root along the trail, which is a recipe for hand injury and/or loss of grip. I even set up my road bikes for riding mainly on the bar tops and drops, positioning further encouraged by not having integrated levers, though I often do use the hoods for all-out attacks on steep terrain and for sprinting.

Depending on the design of the fork tip and rear dropout areas, having the QR levers on the right side can be the most tidy. This is especially true with suspension forks or forks with tubing that doesn't taper down much. Disks and calipers can also get in the way of easily opening the levers when on the left side.

I don't think the Maxxis Ardent tire comes in 650b.

I would have bet on 650B as well (or should we say 27.5" since it is a mountain bike?), but the point about the ardent's has me doubting myself.

Design elements from dekerf and fat chance. I find the frame elements pleasing. This bike it meant to open new markets I am sure. And the typical C&V roadie is not the target, the target is mountain bikers from the 1980s and 1990s. They will immediately love the segmented fork and seat stay treatment.

The short head tube is a major b0ner. Sloping top tubes have been around since the 1980s and they made bikes look bad ass and are much loved by Retro MTB fans. Rocky Mountain's "enduro" was the blizzard which featured the "Radically sloping top tube" as it sloped more than any other models. That frame is coveted as much as an altitude which is a hand made frame, where as most years the blizzard was made overseas. I digress.

I agree with dddd's sentiments about off road riding. Drop bars lost that one because they don't make sense and if you don't believe me then read some of the essays on attack position and why mountain bikes have flat bars (and motorcycles too!). However, this frame is not for riding your typical MTB trail of today, but more for the "MTB of yore" which many people are taking to with "gravel grinders" and even road bikes. About the most radical you want to get with this frame is splashing through the puddle in the photos.

Anyway, I see it as more of an expedition/long distance MTB not for fast technical trail riding. I think it will make a better expedition touring bike than MTB.

Lastly, this is not new. Singular has been making drop bar geometry MTB's for many years and they are really well designed. The aesthetic won't appeal to the C&V crown but then these bikes are optimized for riding, not fashion.

Bingo

I might have overlooked something, but what makes you think it's 650b?

Naw, I just was just guessing. I really would have expected 650 from VO, but the comments about the Ardent's only available in 29" with tan walls has me second guessing... so probably it is 29"? Will be interesting to find out.

If it is 29" and someone buys one with an uncut fork I will gladly trade you an Ahearne built, non suspension corrected curved blade disc fork (cost me over $400), unpainted for one of these. I like the segmented look better and don't like the amount of blade deflection I get from the curved blades. I also have a singular peregrine fork which is much more stout and a touch shorter which I would trade for one of these forks as well. Also uncut. It has a lugged crown so it might fit some people's aesthetic tastes better.

Odd rims for disc brakes. Sort of loses me right there since I'd much prefer cantis.

Trying way too hard to be too many things. Especially with the mounts on the fork. With all that going on, I'd rather put 29in wheels on as drop bar fattie. More useful options that way. Also a vote no on the stays...

So when will we see a VO fattie? That actually might interest me.

A shame really since a ground up drop mtb could have been so much better.

Well I am sure it will be sold as a frame set so you can put whatever you like on it.

I don't know what the forward facing lower braze-ons are for, but I am guessing the upper ones fit some of their bar bag racks. The triple bottle bosses were popularized (correct me if I am wrong) by salsa and there are now a few different companies making various bags and cages which utilize these for additional small cargo carrying. The idea is to put as much on the frame as possible without having racks. This is now the norm for adventure touring.

For reference, see Porcelain Rocket. Products - Porcelain Rocket Bicycle Frame Packs | Custom Bicycle Bags - The Porcelain Rocket.

I like this bike except for the short headtube. so I could see that as an easy fix for v.2

Same here. Despite all my belly aching about it so far, I think it's cool! I like the segmented stays and fork.

Pew pew...pew pew pew.

Agreed.

I got used to a bunch of spacers on my Fargo, so not much fazes me anymore.

[IMG]https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3680/...72a55164_b.jpgIMG_1800 by gomango1849, on Flickr[/IMG]

I hope it's a 26 or 650B. I'm just not a 29'er person.

I love the fork, not so much the rear seat stays or actually..the frame. I'd just buy a Surly.

Give me a rigid, level TT, Canti'd MTB conversion any day......VO missed the boat on this one, IMO

That Fargo is perfect to my eye, I like it. The VO bike has a bigger stack and still has a ton of saddle to bar drop.

Used to think this way till I bought my Niner.

Full suspension and discs. I thought I was in heaven the first ride down at our Mississippi river bottoms.

FWIW I did Moab two years ago on my old ss Bob Brown mtb.

Won't do that again.

Thanks. They are great bikes for a little $$$$.

Lots of personality and will do decent road work with the right tires.

Sure thing about the wheels being whatever you'd like.

I'm just not sure about what they think it is given these are the big reveal pictures. Retroish (sorta) wheels and tires, adventure touring bits, sloping top tube to a still one size headtube and too much steerer, wall climber gearing, wishbone stay with discs (torque rub anyone?). I could see building it up with a little taller gearing as a solid ORV trail type bike, but they've built it as an odd half fattie half retro MTB klooge. Not my cup of tea, but maybe other's.

Generally speaking, I like VO, and they produce lots of niche stuff at a more reasonable price than others. This just doesn't hit the spot with me.

Makes me really appreciate the Rawland Sogn.

I've actually been thinking along the lines of a rigid, disc-brake, 29er lately. But I'd go with something more along these lines:

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2903/...816f30bb_b.jpg

Here's some more:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/clockw...7632468109162/

Of course this would cost way more than a Velo Orange offering, but it is COOL.

That's a cool bike and is basically what I set out to build when I went to UBI in 2013. I failed on a number aspects. I build it for too short of a fork and I should have sloped the top tube more. I also did not get enough tire clearance on the chain stays but it was alright for a first try. I regret the fork most of all though. It's basically exactly what you see in that photo but with a more elegant bend and more trail. It was made for me and the thing deflects like crazy. it's just terrible in fact. I have a singular peregrine fork on it now which is what I was more or less using as my model with some tweaks. Wish I had gone with a segmented fork.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j2...3/IMG_5786.jpg

Well that's an ambitious first build. A lot of things to go wrong compared to a basic tried and true road frame. I'd imagine the big rubber and low brake point can make the fork geometry very complicated to get right.

This. The folks at Salsa know their stuff, and it shows. There is a certain balance that's immediately obvious when you ride one.

I'm not at all surprised at the split in opinions about this bike on this forum. They definitely took it in a new (weird) direction. I have never liked a frame of theirs before and generally avoid their products. It seems that the opposite is true for a lot of people, which makes sense.

The possibility to build a really unique bike from that frame set is what excites me... but I doubt the geometry will work for me. We shall see.

That would be an even tougher sell for them, since anyone who wants that can scoop up an 80's MTB for peanuts and do it themselves.

Interesting bike.

I like it, for sure.

One thing I would also recommend are the Maxxis Ardents.

I managed a set on my Fargo and they really feel great at 25-30 psi.