Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

How wide chainwheel range can my Campy NR front derailleur handle?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

How wide chainwheel range can my Campy NR front derailleur handle?

Old 01-02-15, 08:56 PM
  #1  
davester
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
davester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Berkeley CA
Posts: 1,583

Bikes: 1981 Ron Cooper, 1974 Cinelli Super Corsa, 2000 Gary Fisher Sugar 1, 1986 Miyata 710, 1983 Nishiki Cresta

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 432 Post(s)
Liked 37 Times in 28 Posts
How wide chainwheel range can my Campy NR front derailleur handle?

I'm in the midst of regearing my Ron Cooper with triple chainrings to match my ancient knees and the hilly terrain I ride. Here's what I have:

52/42 campy NR crankset, now with a Red Clover 42T triplizer ring
13/28 IRD 7-speed freewheel
SOMA long cage for my campy NR rear derailleur
Campy NR front derailleur

My preference currently would be to put an inner ring of 28T on the crankset to get me down to a comfortable granny gear. I'd love to keep the 52T outer ring on my crankset but I fear that my campy NR front derailleur is not up to the task of shifting that 24T range. Therefore, I'm asking you folks how far I need to reduce my large chainring to make this setup work. Dropping down to 50T would be OK because that would still leave me with a 102 top gear. However, I'm not sure that the 50T is small enough to work with a 28T inner. Can anybody with experience give me guidance on this? Thanks.

Another related issue...I have pre-CPSC cranks and a post-CPSC front derailleur. I'm perfectly happy to source a pre-CPSC front derailleur if necessary, but don't really want to if I don't need to.
davester is offline  
Old 01-02-15, 09:09 PM
  #2  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 26,017

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 117 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1403 Post(s)
Liked 143 Times in 100 Posts
I am not sure what the numbers would actually be but you may want to look for the SR/NR era touring FD
__________________
Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '09 Motobecane SOLD, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape
Bianchigirll is offline  
Old 01-02-15, 10:37 PM
  #3  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,544
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1034 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 78 Times in 63 Posts
Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
I am not sure what the numbers would actually be but you may want to look for the SR/NR era touring FD
BG, what model of Campagnolo front derailleur is that?

Campagnolo made a 36t inner ring, that is pretty close to the minimum diameter the cage of the front changer can handle.
repechage is offline  
Old 01-02-15, 11:02 PM
  #4  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 15,928

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 131 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3950 Post(s)
Liked 269 Times in 215 Posts
The FD can handle up to 18T if the info on velobase is correct, VeloBase.com - Component: Campagnolo Nuovo Record 0104007 (1982 - 1987, 3-hole standard band)

I suspect it can do better than that with a bit of tweaking but 24 teeth might be too much.

You might want to think about something smaller than a 52 for other reasons as well. You'll get better gears for spinning and it will be kinder on your knees.
bikemig is offline  
Old 01-02-15, 11:19 PM
  #5  
davester
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
davester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Berkeley CA
Posts: 1,583

Bikes: 1981 Ron Cooper, 1974 Cinelli Super Corsa, 2000 Gary Fisher Sugar 1, 1986 Miyata 710, 1983 Nishiki Cresta

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 432 Post(s)
Liked 37 Times in 28 Posts
Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
You might want to think about something smaller than a 52 for other reasons as well. You'll get better gears for spinning and it will be kinder on your knees.
Yeah, I figure I've got to go down from 52, but since I will have a triple it makes sense to have the largest big chainring reasonably achievable, since there's such a huge overlap between the gears in the 52 large and 42 middle chainrings. I'd just like to get an idea of what my max range is, since it is expensive buying and experimenting with different vintage chainring sizes.
davester is offline  
Old 01-03-15, 10:15 AM
  #6  
Pars 
Senior Member
 
Pars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Aurora, IL
Posts: 2,413

Bikes: '73 Raleigh RRA, 1986 Trek 500 commuter

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I threw a Campy Racing-T crankset on my Raleigh that was a 52-42-30, but never rode it. From what I recall, it shifted fine on the workstand with a SR FD. I could possibly put it back on and check if you want.

EDIT: Also, in answer to your pre- / post-CPSC question, I run a '73 NR crankset on this with an '80s SR FD, and have never had problems with it. Not sure what the official answer is supposed to be though.
Pars is online now  
Old 01-03-15, 10:39 AM
  #7  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 15,928

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 131 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3950 Post(s)
Liked 269 Times in 215 Posts
You could also "modernize" the crankset if you're OK with that idea. VO makes some fine old school looking gear including this 46-30 crank that wouldn't look out of place on a fine vintage bike:

Grand Cru 50.4 BCD Crankset MK II

That would be my first choice for an older bike that I ride on a regular basis. I don't have any issues modernizing bikes that I ride regularly. I realize that the OP my prefer to keep his bike period correct.
bikemig is offline  
Old 01-03-15, 10:46 AM
  #8  
jeirvine 
Senior Member
 
jeirvine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bethesda/Baltimore MD
Posts: 3,324

Bikes: '72 Moto Grand Record, '72 Gitane tandem, '72 Raleigh Super Course, '73 Raleigh Gran Sport, '73 and '76 Colnagos Super, '76 Fiorelli Coppi, '78 Raleigh SBDU Team Pro, '78 Trek 930, '81 Holdsworth Special 650B, '86 Masi GC, '87 Panasonic DX5000

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 483 Post(s)
Liked 57 Times in 37 Posts
Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
... you may want to look for the SR/NR era touring FD
Yes - what model would that be? News to me.
__________________
The man who dies with the most toys…is dead. - Rootboy
jeirvine is offline  
Old 01-03-15, 10:51 AM
  #9  
rando_couche
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,168
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 166 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 30 Posts
Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
The FD can handle up to 18T if the info on velobase is correct, VeloBase.com - Component: Campagnolo Nuovo Record 0104007 (1982 - 1987, 3-hole standard band)

I suspect it can do better than that with a bit of tweaking but 24 teeth might be too much.
IME, a 70's vintage Record front handles a 28/46 double just fine, and would probably go a few teeth wider.

SP
OC, OR
rando_couche is offline  
Old 01-03-15, 10:54 AM
  #10  
RunForTheHills 
Senior Member
 
RunForTheHills's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: California
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
You could also "modernize" the crankset if you're OK with that idea. VO makes some fine old school looking gear including this 46-30 crank that wouldn't look out of place on a fine vintage bike:

Grand Cru 50.4 BCD Crankset MK II

That would be my first choice for an older bike that I ride on a regular basis. I don't have any issues modernizing bikes that I ride regularly. I realize that the OP my prefer to keep his bike period correct.
I put an IRD Defiant triple on my Raleigh International with an IRD FD. It is 48/36/24 and is working out great. You do have to replace the BB too if you go that route.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Raleigh_Crank.jpg (106.6 KB, 46 views)
RunForTheHills is offline  
Old 01-03-15, 11:58 AM
  #11  
Kactus 
Senior Member
 
Kactus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,825

Bikes: 1962 Schwinn Paramount P12, 1971 Schwinn Paramount P13-9

Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 341 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by jeirvine View Post
Yes - what model would that be? News to me.
Didn't Schwinn use a NR FD on their Paramount P-15 with triple chain rings?
__________________
Life... is a state of mind.
Kactus is offline  
Old 01-03-15, 12:25 PM
  #12  
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 19,548

Bikes: 1959 & 1960 Capo; 1982 Bianchi; 1988 Schwinn KOM-10;

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 731 Post(s)
Liked 57 Times in 52 Posts
Originally Posted by Kactus View Post
Didn't Schwinn use a NR FD on their Paramount P-15 with triple chain rings?
Yes, with a 52-47-36 ringset.

I still like the recommendation to reduce your outer chainring size. With that 7-speed 13-28 cogset you could make a nice half-step-plus-granny, e.g. 48-44-32, which would still give you 100 gear-inches on top and only a 16-tooth total drop in chainring size.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324
Capo: 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline  
Old 01-03-15, 12:54 PM
  #13  
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ascending or Descending the NH Mountains NW of Concord!
Posts: 11,271

Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)

Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 502 Post(s)
Liked 64 Times in 45 Posts
I'm running two Schwinns, a Paramount and a Super Sport, with Campy NR FDs and tripilizers.

The Paramount is currently set up at 50-42-31 and runs a 16-20-25-30-34-38 freewheel and a Sachs-Huret RD.



The Super Sport runs 50-42-30 TA rings on the NR crank with the NR FD and a 13-30 freewheel. Currently it runs a Nuovo Gran Sport with a @HenryIII made long cage.





I doubt that you will have any trouble running a 28T granny. If you do try dropping down to a 50T big ring.
__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime!

Visit my websites:
FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com
pastorbobnlnh is offline  
Old 01-03-15, 12:57 PM
  #14  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 15,928

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 131 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3950 Post(s)
Liked 269 Times in 215 Posts
Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
I'm running two Schwinns, Paramount and Super Sport with Campy NR FDs and tripilizers.

The Paramount is currently set up at 50-42-31 and runs a 16-20-25-30-34-38 freewheel and a Sachs-Huret RD.



The Super Sport runs 50-42-30 TA rings on the NR crank with the NR FD and a 13-30 fw. Currently it runs a Nuovo Gran Sport and a @HenryIII made long cage.





I doubt that you will have any trouble running a 28T granny. If you do try dropping down to a 50T big ring.
You get my vote for the cleanest drive train I've seen in a while, . Both of these bikes look beautiful. I love the radical gearing on Paramount; that looks very practical for those NE mtns.
bikemig is offline  
Old 01-03-15, 05:31 PM
  #15  
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ascending or Descending the NH Mountains NW of Concord!
Posts: 11,271

Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)

Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 502 Post(s)
Liked 64 Times in 45 Posts
Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
You get my vote for the cleanest drive train I've seen in a while, . Both of these bikes look beautiful. I love the radical gearing on Paramount; that looks very practical for those NE mtns.
Thank you! Your are so kind!

I built the freewheel with that wide range to participate in one of the New England BUMPS races this past September. I hope to enter more this year. Motivation to loose more weight.
__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime!

Visit my websites:
FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com
pastorbobnlnh is offline  
Old 01-03-15, 06:20 PM
  #16  
Wildwood
Veteran/Pacifist/Resister
 
Wildwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 8,922

Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?

Mentioned: 205 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1909 Post(s)
Liked 208 Times in 152 Posts
Dang Pastor, that's some un-godly gearing.
I should take a lesson. Thanks for the close-ups.
Wildwood is offline  
Old 01-03-15, 09:36 PM
  #17  
davester
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
davester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Berkeley CA
Posts: 1,583

Bikes: 1981 Ron Cooper, 1974 Cinelli Super Corsa, 2000 Gary Fisher Sugar 1, 1986 Miyata 710, 1983 Nishiki Cresta

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 432 Post(s)
Liked 37 Times in 28 Posts
Thanks for the info guys. Nobody seems to have exactly what I'm planning, but fairly close. I think I'll buy the 28 and see how it works, but with the plan of picking up a 50T outer ring soon after.
davester is offline  
Old 01-03-15, 10:50 PM
  #18  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 20,717

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 122 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1845 Post(s)
Liked 166 Times in 121 Posts
My wife's bike has a Zeus FD (essentially a pre-CPSC Campy Record FD clone) with a 27-42-47 triple crank:

JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 01-04-15, 08:14 AM
  #19  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 26,017

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 117 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1403 Post(s)
Liked 143 Times in 100 Posts
Originally Posted by repechage View Post
BG, what model of Campagnolo front derailleur is that?

Campagnolo made a 36t inner ring, that is pretty close to the minimum diameter the cage of the front changer can handle.
I thought I saw a reference to 'touring grouppo' years ago but perhaps I am mistaken. The pic showed a long RD, FD, shifters and cable guide. For some reason I remember thing it was for a triple but maybe it was just a standard FD.
__________________
Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '09 Motobecane SOLD, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape
Bianchigirll is offline  
Old 01-04-15, 08:24 AM
  #20  
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Posts: 16,709
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 527 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 42 Times in 29 Posts
There was the Rally , of course, BG. But the front derailleur was essentially the same as the Record and Gran Sport model. IIRC.
rootboy is offline  
Old 01-04-15, 08:50 AM
  #21  
nlerner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,289
Mentioned: 262 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1191 Post(s)
Liked 77 Times in 59 Posts
I would have thought that the Campy NR FD cage was too short to run a really small ring up front, but from the examples shown, looks like that's not true.
nlerner is online now  
Old 01-04-15, 09:15 AM
  #22  
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,416
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 431 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
There was the Rally , of course, BG. But the front derailleur was essentially the same as the Record and Gran Sport model. IIRC.
Exactly the same.
Grand Bois is offline  
Old 01-04-15, 09:57 AM
  #23  
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Posts: 16,709
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 527 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 42 Times in 29 Posts
Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
Exactly the same.
With one exception. In my old #17 catalog it shows the old push rod style front for the Nuovo Gran Sport groupset. But I never liked those so know nothing about them. Did they have a longer "throw" than the Record front? Anyway, yes, I guess the front recommended to use with the Rally touring derailleur was the Record. Of course, there was the other touring derailleur offered for a while, the splendid Gran Turismo, but that didn't have its own dedicated front either. Anyway….
rootboy is offline  
Old 01-04-15, 10:08 AM
  #24  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 14,409

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 881 Post(s)
Liked 43 Times in 39 Posts
Originally Posted by davester View Post
I'm in the midst of regearing my Ron Cooper with triple chainrings to match my ancient knees and the hilly terrain I ride. Here's what I have:

52/42 campy NR crankset, now with a Red Clover 42T triplizer ring
13/28 IRD 7-speed freewheel
SOMA long cage for my campy NR rear derailleur
Campy NR front derailleur

My preference currently would be to put an inner ring of 28T on the crankset to get me down to a comfortable granny gear. I'd love to keep the 52T outer ring on my crankset but I fear that my campy NR front derailleur is not up to the task of shifting that 24T range. Therefore, I'm asking you folks how far I need to reduce my large chainring to make this setup work. Dropping down to 50T would be OK because that would still leave me with a 102 top gear. However, I'm not sure that the 50T is small enough to work with a 28T inner. Can anybody with experience give me guidance on this? Thanks.

Another related issue...I have pre-CPSC cranks and a post-CPSC front derailleur. I'm perfectly happy to source a pre-CPSC front derailleur if necessary, but don't really want to if I don't need to.
These are not indexing derailleurs and were never designed as such. Compatibility across "vintages" is far less significant than it might be for later groups or other brands. I don't think there should be any concern about mixing CPSC and pre-CPSC.

I believe Schwinn used the NR front derailleur on the Paramount touring models with triples. If I am correct, you have some demonstration (that you can research) that the NR front can handle a triple.

I also am not aware of a late-'60s through '70s triple front mech from Campagnolo. The NR series was developed for the stage-racing community primarily, the pro teams and aspirant riders aiming toward the TdF, Giro d'Italia, Vuelta d'Espagne (language mixed?), and the other classic road races of Europe and the rest of the world. In those days such riders did not use compacts or triples. Campy production of triple setups was in my opinion very limited, until bringing out the Rallye, and i don't recall ever seeing a "Rallye-compatible" front derailleur.

Not to say a real triple mech would not help! I'd suggest looking for one from the earlier Racing T series. I used one for a friction-shifted triple with very good results.

As far as "the numbers," it was common in the past for Campy and others to publish capacity (total number of chain links which can be wrapped) and maximum rear sprocket that the derailleur can put the chain on. I've never seen any published range numbers for the NR/SR/Gran Sport mechs, or the earlier models.

All I can say is, try it and see what happens. Check it out carefully on the service stand to make sure nothing is being overstressed in the rear.
Road Fan is offline  
Old 01-04-15, 10:16 AM
  #25  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 14,409

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 881 Post(s)
Liked 43 Times in 39 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
My wife's bike has a Zeus FD (essentially a pre-CPSC Campy Record FD clone) with a 27-42-47 triple crank:

interesting to see the effect of a very laid back seat tube.
Road Fan is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.