Is this a hole?
 

Upper left chainstay near the brace? Someone is wanting to trade this frame for a set of excellent skinwall Vittorias. Supposedly a Mercier frame, but looks like a bad driveway repaint with scratched up repop decals. Fork crown has the molded in logo, but could be just a fork on a gaspipe frame. I am supposed to be seeing the frame in person today, so the verdict will be then. If there's a hole in the chainstay, then no deal. It's not looking good, because they haven't responded since I brought it up? It certainly looks like a hole to me. What say ye?,,,,BD


http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps856f4b13.jpg

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps630ac95b.jpg

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps5ee6aa49.jpg

As you can see paint quality is super cheesy. Makes you wonder.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps151d5bd3.jpg

And has anyone ever seen a stamped drop with a brazed on derailleur hanger? Looks suspect to me. The extra thick headset spacer makes me think this is not legit either. Hmmmm.,,,,BD

Yes, I've seen a lot of stamped dropouts with integral derailleur hangers....Peugeot used them on everything. If your referring to the little hole on the seat stay its a heat vent for the brazing process.

What's up with the right shifter boss, it doesn't look like the left?

Nah, on the chainstay, on the BB end, right above the crimping. There's a silver mark, then what looks like a rust hole or something next to that.,,,,BD

List more rust IMHO.

It sure looks like a hole, but then photos can throw out some odd optical illusions. I would reserve judgement until you see it in person. You can always walk away

Still no reply. What bothers me is that I have bought from this guy before. A few months ago I got the Pelissier hubbed wheels, a couple sets of Cyclone M·II, and a set of Mafac Racer brakes a while back at a swap meet. He hinted a little at "helping me out" on that deal. IMHO that doesn't oblige me to buy this frame. Judgement in a few hours, if he bothers to show up that is. We'll see I guess. If that is a hole, and the shifter mounts are mismatched or crooked, then the case is closed.,,,,BD

I have seen stamped dropouts with a stamped in hangar before. My question would be is the seat post stuck?

Often headsets get left in due to the tools required to fully remove them, but when a frame is otherwise stripped and the seat post is still in....

Looks like a paint chip to me, but I wouldn't buy without an assurance from the seller anyway.

My eye says paint chip followed by rust, but my eye is hard to trust.

Well he never mentioned one thing. Someone had clearcoated the frame which was why it looked like an amateur repaint. It was a tire rub or chip that had old surface rust. It's all good now, and I own a Mercier frame. Thanks for the mental support and suggestions. It's one of those frames that look WAY better in person than in pictures.,,,,BD

Incidentally, the dropouts are either some type of forged I've never seen before, or very thick stamped/formed kind. There's a strengthening rib between the axle slot and the hanger, but it is indeed one piece. I will do a quick build and get it rideable for a rainy day road bike. It seems like it will fit me like a glove.

The shifter mounts are fine too, and oddly enough this is probably the only frame I can use my retrofriction shifters on. I've shifted to a 60s or 70s stable as of late, and every frame I own but this one uses clamp on shifters.,,,,BD

Simplex clamp on Retrofriction levers are out there but mostly the old style with the Campy looking levers.

Treatise on converting Simplex Retrofriction levers to clamp ons.... Click on the pictures to read the details.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/282672...7627163433202/


BTW, Vitus 888 tubing had 0.8mm wall thickness main tubes. It was just about as light as the standard Reynolds 531 main tubes used on most continental production bikes: 1.0mm thick in the butted ends with the rest of the tubes 0.7mm thick.

At some point Vitus started using a chrome-moly alloy steel in some of their tubes - early 80? Even it it isn't chrome-moly, the original Vitus 172 was just about as strong as the higher alloy steel tubes.

It should be a smooth riding bike.

verktyg :50:

Chas.

Agree with that comment on the Vitus 888. Weird pics but a few Motobecane's in the works. I was quite surprised of the weight on the lower end Vitus tubed model. (BTW: I need one of those 888 decals ;)

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=428041http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=428042http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=428043

edit: The orange is my backyard, outside rattlecan jobbie. For real.

Coolness, thanks for the Triple 8 info. The more I look at this frame, the nicer it looks, The lugs are filed nicely, "mostly" smooth shorelines, fastback seat stay treatment, etc. There's only one bottle cage mount so I imagine it might be mid eighties at the latest? I will be the first to admit I know nothing of Merciers.

The retrofrictions slipped right on like they were made for it, and will be a permanent addition I believe.

Now component suggestions? I imagine this had a decent group, maybe Campy possibly Sachs Huret? No clue on my end. As nice as retrofrictions surely are, I can only imagine how nice it would shift with some Cyclone M-II on it? That's usually my go to group for bikes I "like" to ride. It's a pity I don't have much of anything for French components, aside from some low end older Huret stuff that's in suspect condition anyway. I also don't have the patience to piece by piece a group.,,,,BD

Oh and the seatpost, some kind of ATAX, and it's freshly greased. I made out pretty good for a set of old skinwall tires and a 20 dollar bill.,,,,BD

I just had a very bad thought! Put it together enough to see if it fits me, and then pop the Dura Ace 7700 on it, complete with the red wheels from the Lemond. Hmmmm.,,,,BD

Naaaah, too modern huh.,,,,BD

Dammit. I will have to break out the string and ruler.. I could not find a single wheel that would center up on the rear brake mounting hole. The newer the wheel, the worse off it was. With a 6 sp. Helicomatic Trek wheel, the brake hole was centered on the right rim wall, yet dead center in the chainstays and dropout slots.,,,,BD:mad:

From my perhaps trivial useless archives. Not verified, have no idea where I found it.

Vitus 888 set
which was called "type Grand Tourisme" are as follows,
The three main tubes are .8mm,
the head tube is 1.0 mm
the seat stays and chain stays are 1.0 mm
the steerer is 1.6mm to a butt of 2.5 mm
the fork blades are, 1.2 mm if they are 28x19mm or
1.2 tapering to 1.5mm if 29x16mm.
The steel is classified by Ateliers De La Rive as E36-3 steel

I was wondering if the Huret clamps would work...

I was using the Retrofrictions with Cyclone Mk-I and XC Pro:

http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7a83830f.jpg

http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/...ps82438fe9.jpg


XC Pro and XC Comp are my go-tos.

Yes, Huret clamps work fine. Did you check out my Flickr album?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/282672...57627163433202

verktyg :50:

Chas.

Well the frame is toast, so I will no longer be building it up unfortunately. The rear upper triangle is pushed to the right about a half inch or more. It's going back to the seller tomorrow or the next day. And probably back to the seller that sold ot to him two weeks ago. Ironically I believe that seller is the same person I got another tweaked frame from a few years ago.,,,,BD

Not so ironic, really. Boy, some people, ya know?!

A few years ago there was a trashed out Raleigh Team Pro frame going back and forth on eBay (one of the ones made at Raleigh's SBDU in Ilkleston). The rear triangle had been crushed by UPS and someone kept re-listing it.... :notamused:


verktyg :50:

Chas.