The Golden Boy 

While I understand that race oriented stuff changes with the speed of many gazelles- I also realize that for a lot of us here in C&V, 1990 is "modern."

I was looking into doing one of those "retro roadie" things- an old frame with "new" components.

Is 9 or 10 speed looked at in the same manner as 5 or 6 speed?

fietsbob

I'd say if you can buy it new in a bike shop, all day long , then its modern ..

you can hire a nice old style steel frame made by multiple Builders , and then have the best of both worlds.

mrv 

"modern" is all the new bike gear i have not been able to buy since my daughter was born in 1995 - that's my own, personal "BC" - before children

OldsCOOL

To me, modern begins with brifters. Someday that will be moved up to Di2, hydraulic brakes and when ABS comes in.

FarHorizon

I vote for anything from 1980 on being "modern." YMMV

shuru421

brifters no? thats what i would assume. to me downtube shifters (oldschool) brifters (newschool). it could just be me loll.

big chainring 

Thats about where I'm at too. Maybe 1978. Lycra shorts, asian bicycle manufacturing dominance, the rise of Shimano as a major player, the crumbling of Schwinn, all that stuff signaled the end of the classic era.

cyclotoine

I consider the cut-off to be around 1990 give or take, but I don't think it can be defined, but we can talk about it all day long. You could still order 7700 parts through a bike shop in 2010... that may have changed though so 9 speed would still be modern 4 years ago, but will 11 speed set to trickle down to all the groups over the next couple years... maybe 9 speed is no longer?

The 1980s saw a lot of change aesthetically and a lot of refinement, there were changes like aero brake-levers, dual pivots, SIS and slant paralleograms becoming the standard, but by and large many of these "technologies" existed in the "golden era" and really the 1980s was about their adoption. You might not consider the 1980s classic, but lugged steel and downtube shifters still dominated.

gaucho777 

I agree with brifters signaling the modern era. Shimano introduced their STI levers in 1991, so I think that's a good place to draw a line. It's also the same year I went off to college and stopped racing, and let my race bikes start collecting dust--a sort of Rip van Winkle moment which reinforces the 1991 cutoff in my mind.

I think the CR cut-off date of 1983 works in many ways. Many bikes from 1984-1990 resemble pre-1983 bikes, but include new technologies that set them apart from their predecessors. Thus, I see the mid-80s as a sort of transitional era, where we saw the introduction of monocoque frames (Kestral) and other aero frames (Cinelli Laser, "Huffy" Olympic bikes), clipless pedals, trick TT bikes and other aerodynamic developments (disc wheels, aero cable routing, aero TT bars like Greg Lemond used to Laurent Fignon's consternation, streamlined shapes of many components), growth of indexed shifting, helmets in the peleton, etc.

Thus, at least in my mind:
1991 & later=modern.
1984-1990 = transitional, or "pre-modern" if you will
Pre-1983 = vintage

yipyipyip

Sloped top tubes.

LazyLegs

Everyone will have their own interpretation, as you can see from above. Classic Rendezvous has set 1983 as their benchmark and have forwarded salient and specific arguments to support that position. L'Eroica have set 1987, with some caveats, and I think they've prob hit the nail on the head for me. It depends on if by C&V you just mean an age thing or if it is an ethos. If it's just a matter of years since new, then in 20 years time you'll be sharing your vintage group ride on your PX10 with Di2 equipped Pinarello Dogma's.

For me it's an ethos thing and the L'eroica definition seems right, there has always been change in bicycles but 1987 marks a transition from, experimentation, trial and error to more scientific and marketing based progression and when it became much more about the bike than the rider. CRs 1983 date is selected for the same reason but L'eroica's 1987 date accepts that while there were new modern technologies emerging between 83 and 87, like the lugged aluminium Vitus and Alan's, they still had the feel of the workshop handcraft about them and not the computer and lab where 'Modern' bikes are born. Non-aero brake levers seems as good a symbol of vintage as any, so I think that makes for a good watermark when looking at modern versus vintage bikes.

6.1 – BICYCLES
Historical Bikes (also called Bici Eroiche in Italian) are all road racing bikes built before 1987 both with gears and without gears, as those built in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s. These bicycles most likely have a steel frame, but also other types of rare frames are permitted, such as the aluminium frames built by Alan and Vitus with screwed or glued joints and the Exxon Graftek frames of the late 1970’s with carbon tubes glued to aluminium lugs.
Regarding the components the bicycles should be in line with the following general guidelines:
a) older geared bicycles should have original shifters such as Cambio Corsa, Cambio Paris Roubaix, Cambio Vittoria Margherita, etc.
b) more recent bikes with gears and derailleurs, such as Simplex, Huret, Campagnolo, Zeus, Shimano, Suntour, etc. must have shift levers on the down tube of the frame; exceptions include pre-1980 non indexed bar-end gear shifters and rod/hand manual operated front derailleurs;
c) pedals should be with toe clips and straps or, for older bikes, as the original pedals; Cinelli M71 pedals are allowed, but all other quick release, clip-less pedals are not allowed;
d) brake cables must pass outside the handlebars (cables can pass inside the frame);
e) wheels must have at least 32 spokes laced to a low profile rim (20 mm depth or less, except for the wood rims); the rims must be of either steel, aluminium or wood;
f) both tubular tyres and clinchers with inner tubes are allowed;
g) the saddles must be from the same period of the bicycles, so a model of 1987 or earlier, or from modern production of the traditional saddles, such us any of the Brooks leather saddles or some vintage models of Selle San Marco
h) the change of the gears ratios is allowed due to the difficulty of the ride.
Of course, older road racing bicycles of the early 1900’s with single gear or flip-flop rear hubs don’t need to comply with the above criteria as long as they have their original components.
Vintage-Looking Bikes with steel frame of new construction but with vintage look and characteristics may be used if they are assembled using vintage components or replicated parts similar to the original (gears, shift levers, handlebars, brakes, pedals, etc.), as described above.
Exemptions regarding the type of bicycle will be granted to participants with disabilities, as long as they make a specific request to the organization at the time of registration.
For the 38 km route, other types of bicycles will be admitted, such as postman’s bikes, general working bicycles, leisure bicycles, etc. as long as they were built before 1987.
Mountain bikes and cyclo cross bikes are excluded from all routes.

Italuminium

Carbon, the material of the future.

Yeah, they said that too of asbestos and the gunk they put on non-stick pans.

triplebutted

I can answer the opposite. One of the events I do has a "classic" division which means your bike needs to be steel and before 1984 I think. It needs to have downtube shifters, minimum of 32H wheels, max 6 speeds in back. But the components can be "newer" than 1984. So a new 32H wheelset will be allowed. But basically anything before 1984 is good.

The Golden Boy 

Personally, I use 1993 as a cut off as the *C&V Era*-

The end Suntour
The end of lugged Trek frames (520)
The end of the classically styled M735 Deore XT (and the start of goofy angled plates)
Beginning of 6400 series brifters.

I guess I see a bike with non-aero brake cables as being the big neon sign that says "I HAVE A REALLY OLD BIKE."

I don't fully know what I expect to do- have something fun and good looking, with some of the function that the past 25 years has afforded. And as awesome as I think my stuff functions (and works for my porpoises)- the truth is probably that I would like smaller jumps between gears, and I do like shifting from about where my hands already are.

I wasn't a bicyclist 20 years ago, but I view the skinny, level top tubed bikes as aesthetically pleasing. I like the look of older components, and I despise the look of new molten flow-y components- especially newer cranks.

Chombi

Unfortunately, most terms like "Modern" is relative....
Heck, just a few years back, I still considered my 84 Peugeot PSV as a "modern" bike, as personally I usually consider something still modern if it is still not obsolete or impractical to use....
I eventually brought myself back to reality by telling myself that the bike is almost 30 years old, and the newest bikes MUST have a lot of thing in them that make them perform and ride better.
Frankly, my stubbornness about thinking my bike was still modern till recently must have been influenced by my own denial of how much older I and my bike was since I (back in college) first brought it home from the Peugeot dealer in 1984.....
My threshold for what is modern these days for bikes is something not more than 10 years old.....
JMO, of course....

non-fixie 

Close. At some point the well-known shapes of frames, handlebars, wheels and brake levers began to change.

To me the difference between C&V and modern resembles this:



Both are Olga Hohlova.

repechage

Pretty reasonable synopsis.

repechage

Best to be careful with a statement like that, sloping top tubes were abundant when the safety bicycle was rapidly evolving at the turn of the last last century and just beyond.

crank_addict

I get the roiky 1987 interpretation but there's always the sticky's. Example, top cable feed levers AND aero were in the '86 TdF. And then on that other thread, forum members talking cantilever restrictions. Anyhow, no argument and for those organizing an event with rules that's just fine with me. Hail to the boneshakers! The majority of innovations for bikes were just a few years after them crazy high wheelers.

79pmooney

I was longing for aero brake levers when I was racing in 1977. I wanted to drape my hands over the hoods and fantasized of having slots surgically cut between my finger so I could. That and the early '80s top mounted SunTour DT shifters, the ones I wouldn't slam onto the 13 tooth cog climbing walls.

I plead guilty to spending too many hours in the saddle those years!

Ben

Chombi

Damit!!. the "modern" painter misplaced here boobs!

yipyipyip

Well done. Sloped top tubes just don't look as nice as horizontal ones do. This is not an age thing, by the way (26yr here).

Still, I wouldn't go quite so far. IMHO, brake/shifter/handlebars have a much smaller influence than the frame does. I cite the awe-inspiring https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...i-s-ergos.html thread as evidence, which to me represents the pinnacle in bikes. It seems to me frame geometry changes are more significant than material or shifter/technology advances.

nlerner

Cue the Frank Lenz pic:



Fwiw, in my line of work, "modern" refers to a long time ago! We're firmly in the post-modern era now. I usually use the word "contemporary" to describe something current.

ThermionicScott 

I think this definition has a lot of merit, since if a particular component isn't that old, but already out of widespread use, then it might as well be 40 years obsolete when it comes to availability.

Perhaps there isn't a clear line between "vintage" and "modern" but a decades-long chasm where bikes and their components are neither here nor there. Not a very uplifting thought, I'll grant.

non-fixie 

While I agree that there are some awesome bikes in that thread - I even tried one myself - and that the change in frame shape is the most significant, for me the cut-off date for C&V lies somewhere in the mid-eighties, after which bikes - and stuff in general - began to get bulkier and racing bikes began to lose their elegant appearance.