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Twist-grip shifters - How do I hate thee - Let me count the ways

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Twist-grip shifters - How do I hate thee - Let me count the ways

Old 02-24-15, 08:40 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
What are we talking about?

Oh. New-fangled technology.
You musta missed the post with the grip shifting bike from the 1930s.
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Old 02-24-15, 09:00 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by arex View Post
Originally Posted by rhm View Post
With a twist grip shifter you can pull a nearly infinite amount of cable, so I don't think the design is going anywhere.
What's that mean?
Assuming a handlebar with a diameter of 7/8" the cable wraps around a diameter slightly larger than that, let's say 1". This means you can pull up to π" of cable in a complete turn of the grip, or 3" without any overlap or interference with the cable end. If you need more than that, you can run the cable in a helical groove, like the thread of a screw, adding over 3" of cable in each revolution. It would be easy to make a twist grip shifter capable of pulling a foot or more of cable in a hundred evenly spaced increments. Whether this might ever be necessary, well, that's another question. My point is only that the twist grip shifter has this potential, while some other designs (such as a bar end, for example) do not.
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Old 02-24-15, 09:03 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
You musta missed the post with the grip shifting bike from the 1930s.
No. I saw it. But since I don't run into many bikes from the 1930's, I associate this feature with "modern" bikes.
My wife's Bianchi has them. But I'll be damned if I know how to work on them at all.
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Old 02-24-15, 09:16 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
No. I saw it. But since I don't run into many bikes from the 1930's, I associate this feature with "modern" bikes.
My wife's Bianchi has them. But I'll be damned if I know how to work on them at all.
I've seen some of your work on the forums and can confidently say that there's no doubt you could master index shifting if you wanted to. None of this stuff is rocket science as far as I'm concerned, but I can relate. I pretty much have decided that electronic shifting bikes are something that I have no interest in and can't see myself learning about them any time soon.
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Old 02-24-15, 09:18 AM
  #55  
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After working at the co-op long enough, I know that the cheap ones are just garbage. Servicing them is a challenge to put it mildly. I've used the higher end ones before, and they are nice, but my real complaint is the actual grip portion starts to rot in the conditions down here. It's a bummer, because they are normally on low end bikes, so the value isn't there to upgrade them to better gripshift, and if you have to replace them, you have to replace the grips anyway since they are normally melted to the bars by then. So you're into it for more than the cost of the bike by then.
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Old 02-24-15, 05:57 PM
  #56  
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Give me levers i can trim... I don't need to know what gear I'm in by specific number.. My legs will tell me if I'm in the correct one.

Than again i also prefer carburetors. Which probably says allot about me.
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Old 02-24-15, 06:10 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by EvilWeasel View Post
Than again i also prefer carburetors. Which probably says a lot about me.
I'll go you one better, not only do I prefer carburetors I LOVE Rochester QuadraJets. Nothing like that QuadraJet "wail" at WOT! Well, except maybe a Carter ThermoQuad.

We now return you to our regularly schedule bicycle discussion......
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Old 02-24-15, 06:29 PM
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When I replaced the left side on my wife's MTB recently, the newest version was not the same as the old one. Instead of a symmetrical left and right housing the design used the same housing on either side. The new one therefore turned the opposite direction of the old one, making it more intuitive for an occasional user because it gets easier gears with the same direction twist. It had about a dozen detents instead of three, allowing for trim of the FD, and near-universal FD compatibility. I wouldn't call it nicely made but it was cleverly engineered to do its job. I googled through MTBR about it and it seems like some people use a grip shift on the left since it allows FD trim along with a trigger shifter on the right since it's used more and works easier.
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Old 02-24-15, 07:22 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Murray Missile View Post
I'll go you one better, not only do I prefer carburetors I LOVE Rochester QuadraJets. Nothing like that QuadraJet "wail" at WOT! Well, except maybe a Carter ThermoQuad.

We now return you to our regularly schedule bicycle discussion......
And a sweet set of glass packs at full song on a flathead..............
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Old 02-24-15, 09:21 PM
  #60  
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^^There is nothing like the sound of a Laverda in full song.

Rohloff rules the roost with grip shifting. Perfect indexing all the time, stand on the cranks- it does not care. Once you have one, you wonder why other people put up with derailleurs all the time- so coarse and unrefined! Perfect chainline, low wear, super reliable, a little on the heavy side is really the only downside. I have one on my Anderson stainless and the bike still weighs in at 22 pounds.

You can grab a handful of gear and go to any gear you need in a fraction of a second. You can shift while the bike is stopped. The gear range is 450% - about the same as a mountain bike might have; more than you usually need on the road unless you are riding the Dairyland Dare. Strong enough for tandem... grips shifts- life is good. I do wish it was easier to fit on drop bars though.
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Old 02-24-15, 09:41 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Salubrious View Post
Rohloff rules the roost with grip shifting. Perfect indexing all the time, stand on the cranks- it does not care. Once you have one, you wonder why other people put up with derailleurs all the time- so coarse and unrefined!
Because for the price of a Rohloff you can buy twelve Walmart bikes with grip shifters
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Old 02-24-15, 09:46 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Salubrious View Post
^^There is nothing like the sound of a Laverda in full song.
.
I will trade you 3 laverda's for one kawasaki two-stroke triple or a honda nsr 250 of any model.

I recently rebuilt a yamaha 300hp V6 direct inject 2 stroke at work.... Mmmmmm. Orgasm noises.mmm.

Oh yeah. Bicycles are cool to.
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Old 02-25-15, 07:40 AM
  #63  
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The fault is not in the concept of the grip-shift. As @Salubrious notes, Rohloff does it right. The fault lies in the implementation of the Shimano units that I've been inflicted with. I can fairly say that none of the dozen or so that I've owned left me anything other than somewhere between irritated and furious. It would seem that a thumb or bar-end shifter could be made for equal or less money, so the Shimano grip-shift isn't a matter of cost savings. It's a deliberate choice on the part of bike makers who should know better. And I'm not talking Wal-Mart BSOs, either - the cheap grip-shifts come on bikes up to about $600 or so from companies who should know better (Specifically thinking of Electra, although they're not alone). I've seen semi-functioning grip shifts on Raleigh, Trek, Giant, and other well-known brands.

Why, oh why, Lord must I suffer this travail? Curse the cheap grip shift to the hell that it so richly deserves!

Thank you - rant over - I now need to go install some better shifters...

FH
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Old 02-25-15, 07:53 AM
  #64  
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Just to add to the mix, I have had more issues with the trigger shifters (Shimano) on my wife's bike than my grip shifters (SRAM). Both bikes are about the same age but mine has a couple of orders of magnitude more miles. Ok, Ok, Okay! The grease in the trigger shifters gummed up and I had to clean and lube (wouldn't shift, stuck pawl). Haven't don that on the grippers.
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Old 02-25-15, 08:37 AM
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Well, if one wants to complain about Shimano... their Alfine 11-speed hub is the worst IGH ever made- even more disappointing than the Sturmey Archer SW of decades ago. IMO to buy one is to know regret.

missed gears, stuck gears, inconsistent lost calibration, really terrible indexed trigger shift... I came to think that Shimano never took the product seriously and had done everything possible to mess it up. It does not surprise me to hear they can't get grip shifters right either. The only derailluer I ever found with a penchant to wrap itself around the freewheel/cassette was a Shimano (although I am sure others could be coaxed).

Their 8-speed IGH did work fairly well- and it had a grip shift that never gave me any problems. I currently am looking for an IGH to install on a Schwinn fillet-brazed frame, but despite their 8-speed actually working, I am loathe to buy anything Shimano ever again after that 11-speed debacle.
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Old 02-25-15, 08:47 AM
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@Salubrious I can empathize with your position. I have been a Campagnolo snob for a long time. I try to listen to others and I have learned that I don't know nor have I experienced everything. I must confess the DA 7400 8 spd group on my 91 Pinarello could not be more smooth and exact. I think the difference varies all over the place.

Recently I bought a Linksys AC router after living with the WRT 54 G for a long time and having used and own several Linksys products. It sucked and I sent it back. Now I am using a NetGear with the same functionality and it works fine. Often the challenge is in quality variation, sometimes it just is a poor configuration that just wont' work. Some statement about "baby and the bath water" comes to mind.
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Old 02-25-15, 10:01 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by EvilWeasel View Post
Give me levers i can trim... I don't need to know what gear I'm in by specific number.. My legs will tell me if I'm in the correct one.

Than again i also prefer carburetors. Which probably says allot about me.
Like, for example, that you prefer internal combustion assist on your bikes?
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Old 02-25-15, 10:04 AM
  #68  
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My wife had a Shimano grip shifter for her Alfine 8, but complained that the detents didn't have enough tactile feedback. I swapped it out for a JTek bar-end shifter. She loves it! I believe they make them for Shimano 7 and 8 speed IGHs, and S-A 8-speed IGHs.

Jtek Bar-end Shifter

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Old 02-25-15, 11:37 AM
  #69  
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I've heard really good things about the Jtek. You wonder why the big guys can't sort stuff like this out...
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Old 02-25-15, 12:39 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Salubrious View Post
I've heard really good things about the Jtek. You wonder why the big guys can't sort stuff like this out...
They can, but it all comes down to marketing. SRAM, Campagnolo and Shimano all have sophisticated bar-end shifters for their derailleurs. It would be trivial for Shimano or SRAM to make a bar-end for their IGHs. They figure (perhaps wrongly) that most operators of IGHs prefer trigger shifters, or paddle shifters. Sturmey gets it right in offering trigger shifter, twist-grip AND bar-end shifting options for some (but I guess not all) of their IGHs.
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Old 02-25-15, 01:34 PM
  #71  
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For any shifter, IGH or derailleur, at least in my case I like to be able to make big shifts and not just one or two gears at a time which is for the birds. If you are in hilly country you really begin to appreciate the old downtube friction shifters... if you have a derailleur that is.
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Old 02-25-15, 06:38 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Salubrious View Post
For any shifter, IGH or derailleur, at least in my case I like to be able to make big shifts and not just one or two gears at a time which is for the birds. If you are in hilly country you really begin to appreciate the old downtube friction shifters... if you have a derailleur that is.
Gripshifts are nice for full sweeps across a cassette or triple chainrings. Better for climbing dirt mountains cuz they're on the bar. No friction option for the rear but fronts of some have 9 clicks, so plenty of trimability.
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Old 02-25-15, 07:06 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
You musta missed the post with the grip shifting bike from the 1930s.
To some people on this list, that's new-fangled technology.
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Old 02-25-15, 09:46 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
Gripshifts are nice for full sweeps across a cassette or triple chainrings. Better for climbing dirt mountains cuz they're on the bar. No friction option for the rear but fronts of some have 9 clicks, so plenty of trimability.
Or, as in my case, sweeps across the gears in my IGH.
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Old 02-26-15, 03:34 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by EvilWeasel View Post
I will trade you 3 laverda's for one kawasaki two-stroke triple or a honda nsr 250 of any model.

I recently rebuilt a yamaha 300hp V6 direct inject 2 stroke at work.... Mmmmmm. Orgasm noises.mmm.

Oh yeah. Bicycles are cool to.
Always been a Suzuki RGV250 guy, unfortunately now in name only
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