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Nuovo Record gear range

Old 03-09-15, 08:52 AM
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Narhay
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Nuovo Record gear range

Is this possible?

52-39 first gen dura ace cranks
Nuovo record FD
14-28 freewheel
Nuovo record rd

I understand the max rear cog on paper for an NR rd is 26 but I've read a number of you doing fine with a 28. Just not sure about the 39t chainring if that plays into it.
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Old 03-09-15, 09:56 AM
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I'm running a 14-28 on mine. Brev chainsets being what they are, I wont experience a 39/28.
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Old 03-09-15, 11:15 AM
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I've never had a problem running 13-28 with a Nuovo Record rear. However, It is important to fine tune the chain length and wheel position in the dropouts so that the upper derailleur pulley isn't too close to the 28T cog. If you have the chain length incorrect then the upper pulley will interfere with the cog, which is not a big deal, but is irritating and can lead to balky shifting. The official chain wrap capacity of the derailleur is 26T, and a 52-39/14-28 has an official chain wrap of 27T. I've never used a 39T chainwheel, but this is highly unlikely to be a problem since the only times you'll exceed the capacity is if you crosschain (big/big or small/small), which you shouldn't be doing anyway.
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Old 03-09-15, 11:16 AM
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If I'm doing the math right, that should work, provided that your chain as short as it can be and still handle the 52-28 combination. Even so, your chain will be a bit slack if you ever use the 14-39 combo. Of course, you wouldn't ordinarily use either of those because of cross-chaining, but you want to have enough chain to handle the big-big in case you someday shift onto it by mistake..

The big question is whether your rd will shift onto a 28-tooth cog. It might, but then again it might not. The only way to find out for sure is to try it.

Originally Posted by Narhay View Post
Is this possible?

52-39 first gen dura ace cranks
Nuovo record FD
14-28 freewheel
Nuovo record rd

I understand the max rear cog on paper for an NR rd is 26 but I've read a number of you doing fine with a 28. Just not sure about the 39t chainring if that plays into it.
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Old 03-09-15, 12:30 PM
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Thanks all. I have both a 14-24 freewheel and a 14-28 so I guess I will just have to play around. At least I know to shorten the chain.

Can I mount the claw derailleur hanger further down the dropouts to adjust the derailleur position or does it have to be mounted as far back as it goes?
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Old 03-09-15, 12:47 PM
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I was able to get on the 28 cog but it didn't work great. I suppose it might have to do with the RD hanger location and dropout adjustment.
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Old 03-09-15, 02:00 PM
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Rant on: Why are 26T freewheels so scarce? This is the perfect size with the NR. Rant off.


Are you sure you need the 52T outer? For example, 48-39 / 13-28 would still give you a 100-inch top gear, while making the whole chain wrap and jockey wheel position problem easier to sort out.
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Old 03-09-15, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by John E View Post
Rant on: Why are 26T freewheels so scarce? This is the perfect size with the NR. Rant off.


Are you sure you need the 52T outer? For example, 48-39 / 13-28 would still give you a 100-inch top gear, while making the whole chain wrap and jockey wheel position problem easier to sort out.

This post points out an important consideration when setting up a NR derailer with a 28t freewheel.

There can be all the difference in the world between trying to get an NR derailer set up to work with a 42-52t chainset and doing the same with a 39-52t chainset.

Yes, if the dropout slots are long enough, you can slide the mounting claw forward, and this can be key to getting the effect of a just-right length chain, which is crucial in this application.

Experimentation with chain length (sliding the axle fore and aft) will likely be the key to getting the best performance here, but I prefer using a narrower-range chainset as John E has suggested. It all has to do with keeping the guide pulley within a proper range of distance from the freewheel's largest cog over the rider's choice of usable gearing combinations (no small-to-small, at all, for me).
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Old 03-09-15, 09:44 PM
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I'm running a 14-30T cog on my only NR setup right now; easy peasy. I think that's with a 52/42 up front.

I'm not a cross-chainer, though; I never, ever shift to big/big.
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Old 03-10-15, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman View Post
I'm not a cross-chainer, though; I never, ever shift to big/big.
That is to say, you haven't shifted onto the big-big yet.
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Old 03-10-15, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jonwvara View Post
That is to say, you haven't shifted onto the big-big yet.
I'm into the small ring before that happens.
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Old 03-10-15, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by John E View Post
Rant on: Why are 26T freewheels so scarce? This is the perfect size with the NR. Rant off.


Are you sure you need the 52T outer? For example, 48-39 / 13-28 would still give you a 100-inch top gear, while making the whole chain wrap and jockey wheel position problem easier to sort out.
That 26t equipped FW wasnt as popular as the 14-28. My NR equipped Trek 760 came with a Shimano SIS 6sp 13-26 to mate up with the Campy Brev 53/42. I have since removed that FW for a 6sp 14-28.
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Old 03-10-15, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by OldsCOOL View Post
I'm into the small ring before that happens.
Ordinarily, yes.

I know I keep harping about it and I'll stop after this, but Murphy's Law isn't a joke--it's a serious design principle. If something can go wrong, it eventually will go wrong. I rode my Nishiki Prestige with 52-42 chainrings, a short-cage Suntour Cyclone and a too-short chain for several years before the it finally caught up with me. I didn't get hurt and didn't even do much damage, but it would be an exaggeration to say I enjoyed it.
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Old 03-10-15, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by jonwvara View Post
Ordinarily, yes.

I know I keep harping about it and I'll stop after this, but Murphy's Law isn't a joke--it's a serious design principle. If something can go wrong, it eventually will go wrong. I rode my Nishiki Prestige with 52-42 chainrings, a short-cage Suntour Cyclone and a too-short chain for several years before the it finally caught up with me. I didn't get hurt and didn't even do much damage, but it would be an exaggeration to say I enjoyed it.
Definately a good PSA for those playing around with the drivetrain. Thanx for the "caveat"!
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Old 03-10-15, 07:11 AM
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I would want to know what year of Nuovo Record rear dérailleur. The dimensions of the early bodies are different from the later units. The top parallelogram pivots moved away from the mounting bolt, and the very last units shared the super Record jockey cage design, all these changes over time incrementally increased capacity.
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Old 03-10-15, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by John E View Post
Rant on: Why are 26T freewheels so scarce? This is the perfect size with the NR. Rant off.
+1. You'd think that with the number of NR and other short-cage racing derailleurs still in service, that 13-26 or 14-26 freewheels would be on some maker's list in addition to the ubiquitous 14-28.

Are you sure you need the 52T outer? For example, 48-39 / 13-28 would still give you a 100-inch top gear, while making the whole chain wrap and jockey wheel position problem easier to sort out.
+1 to this as well. After realizing that gears over 100" didn't make me go any faster (and just made my left knee ache), I've weeded them out of my bikes and have gotten a lot more use out of my big rings.
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Old 03-10-15, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
I would want to know what year of Nuovo Record rear dérailleur. The dimensions of the early bodies are different from the later units. The top parallelogram pivots moved away from the mounting bolt, and the very last units shared the super Record jockey cage design, all these changes over time incrementally increased capacity.
It is a PAT 11 (1985) just before the super record came out.

There is someone selling NOS dura ace rings on craigslist. I messaged them about a 49T but I didn't hear back. I'll try again today.
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Old 03-10-15, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Narhay View Post
It is a PAT 11 (1985) just before the super record came out.

There is someone selling NOS dura ace rings on craigslist. I messaged them about a 49T but I didn't hear back. I'll try again today.
If you pull the wheel back, assuming horizontal dropouts, you might get it to work, most likely to get they system chain length safe in the 52 x 28, the 39 x 14 will be droopy.
That is the best compromise in my book as you cannot damage much beyond paint.
Setting the jockey cage to the higher spring tension point might help too.
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Old 03-10-15, 02:50 PM
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I try not to worry about chain droop when the chain is on the smallest-smallest sprockets, since there are too many good reasons why never to use that combo, including chain slapping away at chainstay paint, a slower-moving (so slower shifting) chain, too few teeth engaged for shifting under much pedaling force, higher rate of cog wear, and much higher level of cyclic fatigue stress right where frames most often fail (at the chainstay/dropout area).
Not to mention increased loading on the bottom bracket and rear axle.

But the big-big combo must at least be respected. As jonwvara seemed to be alluding to, the inevitable use of the big-to-big gearing combo is, well, inevitable!
And with today's chains, which are so very much more tolerant of cross-chaining, why not take full advantage of this ratio as a last shift before having to cede forward momentum to a perilous drop from the big ring?
The shift from the big ring is death when holding on near the crest of a hill, so better to perhaps adjust the bike's fit parameters for a more-comfortable leap out of the saddle into the hill-conquering stand-and-lean-forward position where much greater force can be extracted from one's legs/knees without risk of knee injury.(!)

With the NR derailer in particular, I find that the requirements of using both chainrings with the largest cog must have the chain length and axle position compromised carefully for both chainring positions to allow clean, quick shifts to and from the largest cog. This unfortunately becomes much more critical when a wider spread of chainring size is to be used!
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Old 03-10-15, 02:55 PM
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Old 03-10-15, 09:03 PM
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OK, I have eliminated the chain droop.

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Old 03-11-15, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Narhay View Post
OK, I have eliminated the chain droop.
I think that's a really good solution.

Not to hijack this thread, but does anyone know how well those Soma aftermarket long cages for Campagnolo Record/NR derailleurs work? They're said to have a total capacity of up to 40, I think, and accept a 32-tooth cog. I'd need one if I had a Campagnolo-equipped bike--a 26-tooth cog wouldn't do it for me.
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Old 03-11-15, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jonwvara View Post

Not to hijack this thread, but does anyone know how well those Soma aftermarket long cages for Campagnolo Record/NR derailleurs work? They're said to have a total capacity of up to 40, I think, and accept a 32-tooth cog. I'd need one if I had a Campagnolo-equipped bike--a 26-tooth cog wouldn't do it for me.
Jon, I just set up one of these on the Mirella. Works fine on the stand, but no road miles yet.

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Old 03-11-15, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Narhay View Post
OK, I have eliminated the chain droop.

Good move!

Now you just need to eliminate your Shimano problem.



….kidding.
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Old 03-11-15, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by top506 View Post
Jon, I just set up one of these on the Mirella. Works fine on the stand, but no road miles yet.

Top
How about writing a post about the Soma cage once you've had some time to try it out on the road? Inquiring minds want to know how well it works. At least this one does.
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