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What is your grail bike and why?

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What is your grail bike and why?

Old 02-21-17, 05:05 PM
  #201  
willydstyle
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Originally Posted by St33lWh33ls View Post
LOL, it's not MY grail, it's every dictionary's description of grail. Don't shoot the messenger. If we agree there is one grail as described in every dictionary we can move on to opinion on how it pertains to bicycles.
Dictionary definitions cannot possibly convey the full meaning of a word, as language simply isn't that precise.
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Old 02-21-17, 05:50 PM
  #202  
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Let's start from the beginning. There are 2 issues.

1. You have at some level, an issue with some of the "grails" posted in this thread. You claim they need to have a level of unobtanium to them. My definition was different. I tried to distill it here:

Originally Posted by armstrong101 View Post
I think "the" Grail bike is whatever bike makes a person most happy to ride/own. Perhaps it can be defined as the one bike you would own if you could only own one bike.
My question to you: If you don't believe grails without unobtanium in fact qualify as grails, then what happens if someone who wants a non-unobtanium Huffy (because their dad bought them one when they were 8 and would do anything to have a bike like that again) gets a Pope Colnago (a Holy Grail by any definition of the word). This person still wants that Huffy like no other bike. How can someone own their Holy Grail and yet still want another bike even more badly?

2. My message to you is that some people use (holy) "grail" to mean "ultimate favorite". You seem to disagree with this and prove it by defining "grail" and telling me to look it up. You even said the OP usage of the term was wrong. You state that here and here:

Originally Posted by St33lWh33ls View Post
Sure we are, which goes back to my original point, grail is misused in this context.
Originally Posted by St33lWh33ls View Post
LOL, it's not MY grail, it's every dictionary's description of grail. Don't shoot the messenger.
I don't have to look anything up. This thread is proof that some people use "grail" to mean "ultimate favorite". The OP was asking people to list their ultimate favorite bike, and that's what people did. So yes, people do equate "grail" with "ultimate favorite".
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Old 02-21-17, 05:51 PM
  #203  
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Originally Posted by willydstyle View Post
Dictionary definitions cannot possibly convey the full meaning of a word, as language simply isn't that precise.
Yes by all means, let us throw out those troublesome imprecise dictionaries and just wing it.
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Old 02-21-17, 05:55 PM
  #204  
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Originally Posted by St33lWh33ls View Post
Yes by all means, let us throw out those troublesome imprecise dictionaries and just wing it.
It's always easy to argue straw man, or to take other people's arguments to illogical conclusions, in order to "prove" your own positions.
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Old 02-21-17, 06:01 PM
  #205  
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Originally Posted by willydstyle View Post
Dictionary definitions cannot possibly convey the full meaning of a word, as language simply isn't that precise.
That is a fair statement.
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Old 02-21-17, 06:06 PM
  #206  
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Having obtained the Trek 760 and Colnago that were on my list, I would have to say the Bridgestone Radac 3100 is my next "dream bike" (is that an arguable term??) so we'll see how this goes.
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Old 02-21-17, 06:08 PM
  #207  
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Originally Posted by OldsCOOL View Post
Having obtained the Trek 760 and Colnago that were on my list, I would have to say the Bridgestone Radac 3100 is my next "dream bike" (is that an arguable term??) so we'll see how this goes.
I don't know. Depends on how you define dream. Good dream bad dream or wet dream?
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Old 02-21-17, 06:21 PM
  #208  
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Originally Posted by OldsCOOL View Post
Having obtained the Trek 760 and Colnago that were on my list, I would have to say the Bridgestone Radac 3100 is my next "dream bike" (is that an arguable term??) so we'll see how this goes.
Go for a pink Trek 170 if you need a challenge!
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Old 02-21-17, 06:23 PM
  #209  
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Originally Posted by armstrong101 View Post
I don't have to look anything up.
That's the problem, if you are going to base your supposition on beliefs instead of facts there is nothing I can tell you. If you believe several guys on the internet over peer reviewed dictionaries what hope do I have of convincing you of anything? So let's just let it go at that and move on and agree to disagree.
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Old 02-21-17, 06:47 PM
  #210  
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Originally Posted by St33lWh33ls View Post
Yes by all means, let us throw out those troublesome imprecise dictionaries and just wing it.
The central question of this thread uses "grail" as a metaphor rather than as the literal definition. The dictionary cannot possibly cover all of the ways that language can be used symbolically.
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Old 02-21-17, 07:04 PM
  #211  
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Originally Posted by willydstyle View Post
Go for a pink Trek 170 if you need a challenge!
Dang, that's unobtanium stuff. I like to at least stand a chance.
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Old 02-21-17, 07:07 PM
  #212  
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Originally Posted by willydstyle View Post
The central question of this thread uses "grail" as a metaphor rather than as the literal definition. The dictionary cannot possibly cover all of the ways that language can be used symbolically.
I apologize, that came off more snarky than I intended. Look up "grail metaphor".
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Old 02-21-17, 07:10 PM
  #213  
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The dictionary has more than 1 definition of grail.
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Old 02-21-17, 07:24 PM
  #214  
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Originally Posted by St33lWh33ls View Post
That's the problem, if you are going to base your supposition on beliefs instead of facts there is nothing I can tell you.
The fact is that Grail in this thread has been used to mean favorite bike and its use was understood by all. No dictionary needed.

What is your definition of Grail and could a Huffy qualify or not?
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Old 02-21-17, 07:28 PM
  #215  
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As I said earlier the 2 biggest things on my grail or dream list aren't super expensive just things I want . In 2007 I had saved about half of what i needed to build the surly LHT I wanted when they announce our jobs were going away so it didn't get built . I built it including the color I wanted in 2012 on a 2008 new old stock frame

The second dream bike was a Raleigh sports in my size in good condition I have the original seat and tires for this bike not super hard to come by but not real easy to find in this condition.
Only thing else a would like is a Rivendale I could order it tomorrow But I won't finance a bike with 8 decent bikes all ready

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Old 02-21-17, 07:31 PM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by St33lWh33ls View Post
That's the problem, if you are going to base your supposition on beliefs instead of facts there is nothing I can tell you.
You quote me out of any context and use generic arguments (I'm all facts, you're all opinions). Must make you feel smart.
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Old 02-21-17, 07:40 PM
  #217  
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Probably any 3Rensho
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Old 02-21-17, 08:03 PM
  #218  
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Originally Posted by St33lWh33ls View Post
That's the problem, if you are going to base your supposition on beliefs instead of facts there is nothing I can tell you. If you believe several guys on the internet over peer reviewed dictionaries what hope do I have of convincing you of anything? So let's just let it go at that and move on and agree to disagree.
I did what you told me to do and looked Merriam Webster. Fact is nowhere did it say that a Grail bike had to be made of unobtainium. So you're the one arguing opinions, not me.
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Old 02-21-17, 08:15 PM
  #219  
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I click on Page 9 of this thread and you guys are still arguing about the definition of grail?
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Old 02-21-17, 08:35 PM
  #220  
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
The dictionary has more than 1 definition of grail.
Sure it does, which one do you think applies?

Originally Posted by iab View Post
I define a grail as a personal choice that is difficult to obtain.
I mostly agree with this, that's why my examples were similar in nature to the bikes you pointed to in your post. Special bikes that are very hard to get, for example, not a Paramount. Again, a super nice bike, but you can get one. This also fits the grail metaphor...

Definition of grail

1 capitalized : the cup or platter used according to medieval legend by Christ at the Last Supper and thereafter the object of knightly quests

2 : the object of an extended or difficult quest

In hindsight it was the flippant use of a non word bolded below that probably caused the misunderstanding and that is my fault. I probably should have said special and very hard to get, so that's on me, the rest I stand by.

"The Pierce is amazing, looks very modern for a vintage bike. IMHO these examples are what really constitutes grail status. I think grail status for a lot of bikes in this thread is a misnomer, although probably politically incorrect I think a "10" status is more appropriate for most of these bikes. Grail, IMHO, = unobtainium."

My quote above I stand by with the exception of the non word in response to th OP question...

Originally Posted by willydstyle View Post
Sorry if this thread is really common, but I'm new to C&V and still learning about what separates an old junker from a nice vintage bike. So what separates a nice vintage bike from a great vintage bike?
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Old 02-21-17, 08:37 PM
  #221  
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Originally Posted by armstrong101 View Post
I did what you told me to do and looked Merriam Webster. Fact is nowhere did it say that a Grail bike had to be made of unobtainium. So you're the one arguing opinions, not me.
My apologies, see above.
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Old 02-21-17, 08:55 PM
  #222  
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Here's my grail bike. I had no idea it existed until I found it. You just do not know.

I mean, dig the detailing on this baby. It's a beautiful braze and construction job.







It looks great. It rides great. And admit it, you'd never heard of it until now. Neither had I, until the moment of discovery.

And that's a grail. You don't know it until you find it, you are shocked into silence and wonder by it.

Have fun, guys.
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Old 02-21-17, 10:37 PM
  #223  
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Already have 'em

My renovated bike of my mid 20's has to top the list for me, --- sentimental favorite I guess --- bike has seen a lot of miles and a lot of suffering , -- some smiles too. Couldn't afford a Colnago/ Merckx/ Serotta/ etc etc when I was in college, but this machine got the nod - originally equipped with a Veloce kit, I built it in 1995 for around $1200 I think (Aelle tubes -- the original group is either long gone or scrap now -- I sourced some very nice Chorus and Record level bits for the rebuild )






The SLX equipped Superissimo acquired from a fellow board member is another -- very similar riding compartment to my DeBErnardi, but SLX tubes ---- quite possibly the bike I was dreaming of when I ordered my Aelle equipped DeBernardi !




Be impossible to ignore my modernized DeRosa !
I looked for the right deal on a complete bike for a couple of months -- and even whined and cried a bit about my plight on here -- Ultimately, --- I found the right deal on a frameset and built it up with modernish mostly 10 speed era parts and a decent set of wheels (but not super lightweight)
---
Its fast guys ! -- Carbon bike fast -- and comfy -- Almost an ideal combo of a resilient steel frame with the short reach bars , super stiff stem , zero offset post (puts me up and over the cranks a little better IMO ) -- The square taper compact Campy crankset rounds it out

Only a handful of rides on it so far, but it has delivered every time






I do have some MTB wants and needs (well ... perceived needs) -- but I feel like I'm basically set. But a Yeti SB 5.5 is on my short list of bikes to save my lunch money for

For me to look at anything any more "Grail Worthy" on the road than what I have, I would actually look at a modern carbon dream machine -- a C-60 would top the list, -- but I don't think I would see a tangible performance benefit over a couple of other bikes I have -- it'd sure be nice to try though .

Oh - a Pegoretti would be cool too, or a Bixxis , or a -------------- I guess I could go on and on

I am an offroad motorcycle enthusiast, --- It pains me a bit that any of the bikes I just mentioned (Yeti 5.5, C60, Pegoretti, Bixxis ) -- would wind up costing more $$ than a new Honda CRF 450 though ------ Unless your a billionaire playboy, ya gotta pick your poison sometimes

On the vintage side, I would love to have a nice Grandis, but if it never comes along, oh well

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Old 02-22-17, 06:17 AM
  #224  
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Originally Posted by St33lWh33ls View Post
I probably should have said special and very hard to get, so that's on me, the rest I stand by.
The definition of Grail by thesaurus.com (https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/grail) says:
Definition : sacred vessel

No mention of unobtainable. The issue is that it is sacred. Sacred is in the eye of the beholder. Therefore Paramounts are not excluded.
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Old 02-22-17, 08:38 AM
  #225  
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Originally Posted by armstrong101 View Post
The definition of Grail by thesaurus.com (Grail Synonyms, Grail Antonyms | Thesaurus.com) says:
Definition : sacred vessel

No mention of unobtainable. The issue is that it is sacred. Sacred is in the eye of the beholder. Therefore Paramounts are not excluded.

If that is the case, I would still mention my DeBernardi, and the Colnago, -- but exclude the red modernized DeRosa from my list just above.

It's a very very nice machine for my needs but I wouldn't quite call it a "sacred vessel" - Ditto for any of the modern bikes I mentioned. (Well, except maybe a Pegoretti) -
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