willydstyle

Dictionary definitions cannot possibly convey the full meaning of a word, as language simply isn't that precise.

armstrong101

Let's start from the beginning. There are 2 issues.

1. You have at some level, an issue with some of the "grails" posted in this thread. You claim they need to have a level of unobtanium to them. My definition was different. I tried to distill it here:

My question to you: If you don't believe grails without unobtanium in fact qualify as grails, then what happens if someone who wants a non-unobtanium Huffy (because their dad bought them one when they were 8 and would do anything to have a bike like that again) gets a Pope Colnago (a Holy Grail by any definition of the word). This person still wants that Huffy like no other bike. How can someone own their Holy Grail and yet still want another bike even more badly?

2. My message to you is that some people use (holy) "grail" to mean "ultimate favorite". You seem to disagree with this and prove it by defining "grail" and telling me to look it up. You even said the OP usage of the term was wrong. You state that here and here:

I don't have to look anything up. This thread is proof that some people use "grail" to mean "ultimate favorite". The OP was asking people to list their ultimate favorite bike, and that's what people did. So yes, people do equate "grail" with "ultimate favorite".

St33lWh33ls

Yes by all means, let us throw out those troublesome imprecise dictionaries and just wing it.

armstrong101

It's always easy to argue straw man, or to take other people's arguments to illogical conclusions, in order to "prove" your own positions.

armstrong101

That is a fair statement.

OldsCOOL

Having obtained the Trek 760 and Colnago that were on my list, I would have to say the Bridgestone Radac 3100 is my next "dream bike" (is that an arguable term??) so we'll see how this goes.

armstrong101

I don't know. Depends on how you define dream. Good dream bad dream or wet dream?

willydstyle

Go for a pink Trek 170 if you need a challenge!

St33lWh33ls

That's the problem, if you are going to base your supposition on beliefs instead of facts there is nothing I can tell you. If you believe several guys on the internet over peer reviewed dictionaries what hope do I have of convincing you of anything? So let's just let it go at that and move on and agree to disagree.

willydstyle

The central question of this thread uses "grail" as a metaphor rather than as the literal definition. The dictionary cannot possibly cover all of the ways that language can be used symbolically.

OldsCOOL

Dang, that's unobtanium stuff. I like to at least stand a chance.

St33lWh33ls

I apologize, that came off more snarky than I intended. Look up "grail metaphor".

iab

The dictionary has more than 1 definition of grail.

armstrong101

The fact is that Grail in this thread has been used to mean favorite bike and its use was understood by all. No dictionary needed.

What is your definition of Grail and could a Huffy qualify or not?

plumberroy

As I said earlier the 2 biggest things on my grail or dream list aren't super expensive just things I want . In 2007 I had saved about half of what i needed to build the surly LHT I wanted when they announce our jobs were going away so it didn't get built . I built it including the color I wanted in 2012 on a 2008 new old stock frame

The second dream bike was a Raleigh sports in my size in good condition I have the original seat and tires for this bike not super hard to come by but not real easy to find in this condition.
Only thing else a would like is a Rivendale I could order it tomorrow But I won't finance a bike with 8 decent bikes all ready

armstrong101

You quote me out of any context and use generic arguments (I'm all facts, you're all opinions). Must make you feel smart.

Dirt Farmer

Probably any 3Rensho

armstrong101

I did what you told me to do and looked Merriam Webster. Fact is nowhere did it say that a Grail bike had to be made of unobtainium. So you're the one arguing opinions, not me.

Roll-Monroe-Co

I click on Page 9 of this thread and you guys are still arguing about the definition of grail?

St33lWh33ls

Sure it does, which one do you think applies?

I mostly agree with this, that's why my examples were similar in nature to the bikes you pointed to in your post. Special bikes that are very hard to get, for example, not a Paramount. Again, a super nice bike, but you can get one. This also fits the grail metaphor...

Definition of grail

1 capitalized : the cup or platter used according to medieval legend by Christ at the Last Supper and thereafter the object of knightly quests

2 : the object of an extended or difficult quest

In hindsight it was the flippant use of a non word bolded below that probably caused the misunderstanding and that is my fault. I probably should have said special and very hard to get, so that's on me, the rest I stand by.

"The Pierce is amazing, looks very modern for a vintage bike. IMHO these examples are what really constitutes grail status. I think grail status for a lot of bikes in this thread is a misnomer, although probably politically incorrect I think a "10" status is more appropriate for most of these bikes. Grail, IMHO, = unobtainium."

My quote above I stand by with the exception of the non word in response to th OP question...

St33lWh33ls

My apologies, see above.

Poguemahone

Here's my grail bike. I had no idea it existed until I found it. You just do not know.

I mean, dig the detailing on this baby. It's a beautiful braze and construction job.







It looks great. It rides great. And admit it, you'd never heard of it until now. Neither had I, until the moment of discovery.

And that's a grail. You don't know it until you find it, you are shocked into silence and wonder by it.

Have fun, guys.

DMC707

Already have 'em

My renovated bike of my mid 20's has to top the list for me, --- sentimental favorite I guess --- bike has seen a lot of miles and a lot of suffering , -- some smiles too. Couldn't afford a Colnago/ Merckx/ Serotta/ etc etc when I was in college, but this machine got the nod - originally equipped with a Veloce kit, I built it in 1995 for around $1200 I think (Aelle tubes -- the original group is either long gone or scrap now -- I sourced some very nice Chorus and Record level bits for the rebuild )






The SLX equipped Superissimo acquired from a fellow board member is another -- very similar riding compartment to my DeBErnardi, but SLX tubes ---- quite possibly the bike I was dreaming of when I ordered my Aelle equipped DeBernardi !




Be impossible to ignore my modernized DeRosa !
I looked for the right deal on a complete bike for a couple of months -- and even whined and cried a bit about my plight on here -- Ultimately, --- I found the right deal on a frameset and built it up with modernish mostly 10 speed era parts and a decent set of wheels (but not super lightweight)
---
Its fast guys ! -- Carbon bike fast -- and comfy -- Almost an ideal combo of a resilient steel frame with the short reach bars , super stiff stem , zero offset post (puts me up and over the cranks a little better IMO ) -- The square taper compact Campy crankset rounds it out

Only a handful of rides on it so far, but it has delivered every time






I do have some MTB wants and needs (well ... perceived needs) -- but I feel like I'm basically set. But a Yeti SB 5.5 is on my short list of bikes to save my lunch money for

For me to look at anything any more "Grail Worthy" on the road than what I have, I would actually look at a modern carbon dream machine -- a C-60 would top the list, -- but I don't think I would see a tangible performance benefit over a couple of other bikes I have -- it'd sure be nice to try though .

Oh - a Pegoretti would be cool too, or a Bixxis , or a -------------- I guess I could go on and on

I am an offroad motorcycle enthusiast, --- It pains me a bit that any of the bikes I just mentioned (Yeti 5.5, C60, Pegoretti, Bixxis ) -- would wind up costing more $$ than a new Honda CRF 450 though ------ Unless your a billionaire playboy, ya gotta pick your poison sometimes

On the vintage side, I would love to have a nice Grandis, but if it never comes along, oh well

armstrong101

The definition of Grail by thesaurus.com (https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/grail) says:
Definition : sacred vessel

No mention of unobtainable. The issue is that it is sacred. Sacred is in the eye of the beholder. Therefore Paramounts are not excluded.

DMC707

If that is the case, I would still mention my DeBernardi, and the Colnago, -- but exclude the red modernized DeRosa from my list just above.

It's a very very nice machine for my needs but I wouldn't quite call it a "sacred vessel" - Ditto for any of the modern bikes I mentioned. (Well, except maybe a Pegoretti) -