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Frame Identification

Old 03-25-15, 01:01 PM
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Frame Identification

Evening Folks,

My brother-in-law donated a frame to me that he no longer wanted which a friend had given to him. Neither of us know the true origin of the frame. I would love to build a good tourer up from scratch and thought this frame might do the trick as it has eyelets for mudguards and looks to be of a sturdy nature. I am curious though as to see whether any body can help me identify the frame. As far as I can see there are no serial numbers, no holes for a head badge no name or label. The previous owner seems to have literally coated it in Dulux paint and then left it to rot. Although set up with one cog on the chain set it clearly has guides built onto the top of the bottom bracket for two cables. So in a previous incarnation it must have been a double chain set on the front. Someone I know said that a frame might be identifiable (period if not name) from the lugs which I have posted below. The only other thing I can say about it is the hex key for the quill stem seems to be imperial as none of my current Allen keys fit it. And the original paint seen inside the steering tube is a metallic dark red. I would like to restore it to its former glory but need a heads-up on the frame brand before I do. Any guidance and advice would be gratefully welcomed. I can always post more photos if these are not enough.

Thank you.

Gerald


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Old 03-25-15, 01:30 PM
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Well, the pictures are really too small to offer any kind of informative detail. That said, my guess would be one of the generic frame sets to come out of Japan during the seventies. Many mid level to higher end Sekine bicycles sported these frame sets. I have seen many other similar frame sets on mid eighties Dawes and other mid level machines. Chances are there will never be a way to determine the frame set's pedigree, unless someone, somewhere, has a data base of serial numbers that apply.

Anyway, a Sekine SHT270 with the generic frame set...

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Old 03-25-15, 09:51 PM
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hello maiello,

the frame's front end and original colour are consistent with a raleigh gran prix. however, the seat cluster and dropouts are not. one possibility is that it is a carlton midliner of some stripe such as a catalina. the steerer may possibly be 26tpi. likely the shell is 24tpi. tubeset may be three tube reynolds plain gauge. shell width could be either 68 or 71. a definite brit whatever she is. dating somewhere between late sixties and early seventies.

wrt the absence of serial numbers - since she has been the recipient of a respray it is possible the number(s) may have been filled or ground away. removal of the white paint front shell and from dropout faces may reveal some evidence. if there be evidence of grinding the numbers can often be brought up to legibility with an acid etch. numbers, if found, could yield a date and a factory where made.

are you able to see any writing on the dropout faces? from what can be seen in your small format photo they could be campag sport, zeus or agrati. raleigh/carlton made some use of zeus ends in the mid and late 1960's. if no name they may be agrati.

if you withdraw the fork it will be possible to examine the interior of the head tube to see if any fastener holes have been filled.

the forum has quite a number of raleigh/carlton experts who may well be able to contribute better information.

good luck with this puzzle!

----

nb - am able to see only limited detail due to small format of pictures.

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Old 03-26-15, 05:35 AM
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Yes, as @juvela said, probably a Carlton. The head lugs appear to be Carlton's "Crespera" model. But it could be some other manufacturer made a similar lug. Here's an image I pulled off the internet:

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Old 03-26-15, 08:11 AM
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Many thnks folks. Not sure why the pictures have come out so small as previous ones have seemed alright. I've attached some more to this reply, but I think it's going to remain a mystery as I can't find any numbers or names on the tubes. I measured the bottom bracket, the width is just under 7cm. The cup that was in the bracket had 1.37x24 on it. Not much else I can add. I will try to find a Carlton/Raleigh expert on the forum. But as mentioned it's likely to remain a mystery. Thanks for the help.

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Old 03-26-15, 09:25 AM
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If the color of the steerer tube visible in one photo is a candy pinkish, I had a Sekine that color long ago. I do not remember any other details about the frame except that it seemed to be a very tight wheelbase for its height so you might investigate that angle.

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Old 03-26-15, 09:37 AM
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thank you for the better images maiello.

rh dropout appears it may have some markings on its outer face just above the axle slot.

frame bears some resemblance to this competition strada model from the 1970 catalogue:https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/catalogs/carlton70/04.JPG

other pages from the same catalogue:https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/catalogs/carlton70

carlton resource page:Carlton cycles

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Old 03-26-15, 03:00 PM
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You might want to post this on Retrobike. There's quite a bit of Carlton knowledge over there. One of the members has his own site on Carltons: Spokesmann's Carltons.
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Old 03-27-15, 07:10 AM
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maiello-

Try as well the Veteran Cycle Club online catalogue library at this link. Yours looks very much like some kind of early to mid-60s Carlton due to the Crespera lugs, Wagner fork crown and the heavy gauge pressed dropouts. The long, leaf shaped seatstay cap was also characteristic of some Carltons in that period. Is there a serial number on the non-drive side dropout or on the bottom bracket shell?
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Old 03-27-15, 08:56 AM
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My humble comment, you may take out & check out the seat post, it should state its size / diameter that can give you a good guide of bike make per Sheldon's excellent web site data base, & if its original it may well have its year month date stamped as well another good pointer.
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Old 03-27-15, 11:10 AM
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+1. Seat post size will tell us something useful.
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