Any Clydes here on Full Carbon Frames?
 

Hey all,

Brand newbie here on the road for past month or so, logged about 200 miles so far on my hybrid (Cannondale Quick CX 4) and have already caught the bug.

Now, it seems that it's almost inevitable that the "engine" is going to see great improvements, and eventually that engine is going to want a nicer, faster platform to get on... I got to thinking...

When is a good weight to start getting on a road bike? Let's say one with 700x23/25 tires?

And when is it a good weight to start thinking about upgrading to a full carbon?

I anticipate putting a good 3-5K miles on my current lady before adding another one to the stable...

Hi, I have a Scott CR1 full carbon. 700x23 tires on 24 spoke Alexrim Racepro wheels. I'm 240 (for now, hoping for my goal weight of between 200-220 soon though) not sure about weight limits etc, but it feels very stable and solid even though it is very light and very fast.

I started out two years ago on hybrids as well. I put about 2,100 miles total on a few different ones. I was leery about making the jump to road bikes, but now I wish I would have done it sooner. If you know you like riding and have an itch to do faster rides, getting clipped in on a road bike is better sooner than later, imo.

I bought my first road bike at 325 lbs. It was an aluminum Specialized Secteur with 25mm tires. It held up fine for 1800 miles. It was fine on the smooth bike trails and city streets, but became a beating once I started doing longer miles on beat up country roads.

At that point, I had gotten down to 260 lbs and wanted to try carbon, so I bought a 2014 Specialized Roubaix (w/25mm tires) that was all carbon. Granted, the max weight listed for the bike is 240 lbs. I rode it for 2,650 miles without any carbon issues. I had to replace the stock wheels with beefier ones though.

I gained weight after I bought it and have ridden my carbon at weights up to 285 lbs. It never cracked on me, but it did creak and groan a lot, especially in the bottom bracket. I would occasionally drop a chain while trying to shift on a step climb. One day, I was just pushing extra hard on a ride and dropped a chain while shifting on the flats. The DR's were adjusted fine, this would only occur during extra hard efforts. I got the feeling that the hotter it got outside or the harder I pushed the bike, the more it would flex a bit allowing things like that to happen. 99% of the time the bike was very nice though. I've seen guys heavier than me on carbon bikes at big group rides as well.

Around that time, I bought a steel touring bike and realized it was more comfortable to ride on my beat up country roads that my carbon bike. I also went on a tour with a group folks and they were pointing out to me things they had cracked on their carbon frames. One guy cracked a head tube during the ride, others had spider webbed cracks on their frames they were keeping an eye on. But a lot had stories of carbon fiber frames breaking on them and they were all considerably lighter than I was.

At that point, based on the comfort of steel and the stories of cracking carbon among my friends, I decided to look into a lightweight steel road bike and found one. It's lighter than my carbon bike as a matter of fact and rides consistently, shifts smoothly and is very quiet on the road. I have since sold my aluminum and carbon bikes and only have steel bikes now.

If I was lighter and raced, I would definitely have a carbon bike. I feel like modern carbon bikes are a must for someone that is actively competing. But as a heavier guy that likes to go fast and do long miles on rough country roads, I'm of the mind that steel is the best choice for me. Although, the titanium bikes have been catching my eye lately :)

Here is some info on good steel bikes that I've found in the last few months of research:

Kona Kapu: KONA BIKES | 2015 BIKES | ROAD: CLASSIC | KAPU
All City Mr. Pink: Mr Pink | All-City Cycles
Jamis Quest: QUEST
Charge Plug 5: Charge Plug 5 Road Bike -- 2015

Ritchey Road Logic - has to be built and these places will build you one and ship it to you:
Ritchey Road Logic 2.0 Frameset - Framesets - Excel Sports
https://www.adrenalinebikes.com/stor...oductid=132634
www

Then there are the heavier Salsa, Surly bikes out there as well.

If you are looking for an inexpensive titanium bike, its good to keep an eye out here as well:

https://www.lynskeyperformance.com/store/loft.html

Also Adrenaline Bikes will build you up any steel or titanium frame you want and ship it to you:
https://www.adrenalinebikes.com

I too would recommend steel. Gunnar makes great custom steel frames at very affordable prices. The Roadie, Sport and Fastlane (disc brake road bike frame) are between $900-$1200 for the frame. Add a fork and group set and go to town.

I am on Carbon. Giant Defy advanced. I emailed Giant about the weight limit and their reply was 300lbs. I'm at 290 and it has held perfectly fine, no issues, no creaks, nothing negative except the bar tape coming unwrapped (easily fixed).

I'm running on the stock wheels at the moment, and they have held perfectly fine, not even any noise, all is true and tight. But I do have some 36-spokes ones being made for me. Note: I learned the hard way, there are very few hub choices for a 36-spoke with disc brakes, so if you plan to upgrade the wheels it will not be cheap.

Got my first carbon when I was around 275, no issues, was a roubaix. Popped 1 spoke on the stock fulcrum wheels, switched to shimano wheels, never had a problem after that.

On a giant defy now still no issues, runs quiet. No weight limit and lifetime warranty. Cannondale lists their weight limits at 300, but most weight limits have to do with the wheels.

I find most of the carbon horror stories are from alarmists...

Maybe I just got "lucky," but I was in a LBS last week when two guys came in with cracked carbon frames. Neither was from a crash. One guy was clearly not a clyde. The other guy would qualify by height alone (I am 6'2" so he was probably around 6'4") and did not look overly heavy for his muscular body type. One of the bikes was a Giant. Can't recall what the other one was. Then I learned yesterday that a friend of mine found a crack in her relatively new Specialized carbon frame. The mechanic opined that because manufacturers are trying to churn out the lightest frames possible, a certain number of failures are inevitable.

On the flip side of the coin, steel can rust. My 11 y.o. IF has some relatively serious corrosion issues at the bottom of the head tube that may be fatal. I have caustic sweat and generally treat my stuff somewhat poorly, which is why I went with ti for my latest road bike.

I'm certainly not an alarmist. I like carbon bikes, but in my short time riding, I've seen a few break. I haven't seen any metal bikes crack in person yet, but I've seen carbon issues in my friend's bikes. My Roubaix was fine though.

If steel was not more comfortable than carbon, I would probably be still riding my Roubaix. But due to the increased comfort, reduced weight and potential ability to carry my weight better, I went to steel.

Most people in the market for a 2-3000 dollar bike aren't looking for ultra lightweight frames, which yes, are going to be more prone to breaks (same is true of any frame material trying to go ultra lightweight).

I've been riding on and off for 25 years. The only bikes and components I've seen break were aluminum. I kept my first carbon frame for 20 years, then sold it to someone who still rides it today.

Frame material has less to do with comfort than the wheels, tires, and overall design do. My aluminum touring bike is brilliantly comfortable... because it's riding on 700x35 tires. Personally, I'm not a fan of steel's increased weight, tendency to rust, and lack of stiffness.

I also have a Giant Defy Advanced (2009). I had issues with the stock wheels and switched to 32-spoke Open Pros.

Before that I had a full carbon Trek 5200 (2000). I put a ton of miles on that bike and even crashed hard enough to put myself in the hospital during a race on it. The bike was fine except for needing a new front wheel and a couple of scratches. I rode the bike another 20K miles after the crash.

I see this mentioned a lot and it makes sense. Big, cushy tires will be more comfortable. Big, cushy tires will also be considerably slower as well.

What if you want to go fast and be comfortable? Switching to giant tires is not the way to go then.

I know there are two camps out there. One says frame material has no impact on ride quality. The other says frame material does have an impact on ride quality. After doing my own testing, I happen to fall into the latter camp. I wish I could buy a cheap, aluminum bike that was fast and comfortable on my roads, but I can't. So I go to the frame materials that can provide me that, which happens to be modern, lightweight steel.

I've seen steel bikes break. Once I was following a guy up a hill when he stood out of the saddle. The frame cracked at the lug on the head tube. He swore that he'd never crashed it. It was a rather old bike at the time.

I had a steel Raleigh back in the day. I noticed some ripples in the paint on the top tube. I sanded away the paint and there were stress fractures in the tube. I'd never crashed that bike, but it did have well over 20K miles on it.

I believe every frame breaks with enough time and stress. I don't think any material is immune. If a frame can make it 20,000+ miles and still be good, then I'd say I got my money's worth.

The thing that worries me about carbon and clydes is design parameters. People like to say that carbon is different from other materials because the builders can literally tune the carbon to any specs they want. Unlike metals, CF can be as strong or weak as they want it to be anywhere in the frame. So if they have that control and are building frames will money and weight as they driving design parameters, I doubt they are plugging in the formula to make modern carbon bikes 100% safe for a 250 lb rider. I'd guess they are dialing in the CF design with a 185 lb rider in mind. That coupled with most manufacturers putting a lighter max weight on their carbon frames, its something to consider that the off the rack CF frames may not be the best purchase for a big rider.

I'm not saying they can't be. My Roubaix held up fine for me for weights between 260 and 285 lbs for 2,650 miles of me pushing for Strava segment goals. I'm just wondering how long it will last when its being pushed beyond its origin design parameters like that. Will it make that 20,000 mile mark? I dunno.

Then that coupled with the somewhat delicate nature of CF. It's really strong in one direction, but not so strong in others. One good accidental tip over onto a rock or curb could introduce a fracture that spider webs out into something to be concerned with. I have seen that with my own eyes on friends bikes.

All of those factors have pushed me to steel lately. Not saying its better for everyone, just feels like a better choice for me personally right now. But those in the know say if you like steel, you'll love titanium. That's certainly piqued my curiosity lately.

I'm over 200 lbs, didn't seem to bother my last carbon roadbike.
2013 Scott CR1 Pro with the stock tires(Continetal Ultra Race 700 X 23)
and wheels(Syncros/DT Swiss RP1.5, not sure about spoke count/18 and 20?):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-rQ...IoDLA&index=19

Which is precisely why it is used in the manufacturing of aircraft!

Carbon fiber is safe for bike frames. I'll be more than pissed if my Roubaix is no longer useful a year from now. As of this morning 13,853 miles without any cracks or other frame problems. Yes I will put on more than 7K miles this year with plenty of elevation, mostly on rough chipseal and some of the time me hammering to try to better my standing on Strava segments. My Roubaix gives me a comfortable ride for several centuries a year as well as a double century and lots of shorter rides. Roads paved and otherwise.

I say enjoy your hybrid until you wish to ride longer than an hour at a time or wish to average in excess of 15mph. Then you may find that a road bike meets your needs better although there is no guarantee of that. I still sometime ride my hybrid. I also enjoy riding my CX bike and if I had a fat tire or a mtn bike I'd enjoy that as well.

You know that's false equivalency :)

What's used (probably more important, how it is used) in an airplane is not the same as what bike corporations use in their low end, price point aimed, Chinese made, carbon fiber frames.

I think in this day and age, going with a new bike of any frame material is probably fine. They are making some neat stuff in carbon, aluminum, steel and titanium these days.

I'm on a used carbon Felt F4 I got on Ebay last fall. I have about 3k miles on it and few hundred miles on dirt/gravel. Been stout and haven't broke it yet :thumb:

Wrong!

But thanks for playing.

All other things being equal (like the GP4000s tested for that article), wider tires have less rolling resistance. They will be a bit heavier, but that only matters when accelerating or (to a far lesser extent) climbing.

I'm currently at 275. (And getting pissed off about it, but that's a different story.) I'm on a Specialized Roubaix. No bottom bracket creaks until we replaced the BB with one with a BB30 adapter to take my power meter. I also occasionally drop a chain, but I have a fraken-drivetrain with an XTR RD so I can run an 11-34. Just get good wheels. I did Deep Vs with Chris King R45 hubs.

That's talking about using 25's over 23's in race tires. Not 700x35 hybrid tires for your next race :)

Admittedly, there are not many (any?) 35mm race quality tires, but quite a few 28mm and even some 32mm tires. The article I linked had several 28s tested - including the fastest tire in the test. Even a 28 compared to a 23 is likely to give a bigger improvement in comfort than going from a good quality rigid aluminum frame to a good quality steel frame.

I didn't find that to be the case when going from 25's to 32's on my aluminum bike, but I'm sort of an outlier though I guess :)

My steel frame bike gives me a nicer ride on 23s than my aluminum frame bike did on 700x32s (although I'll admit these tires ran small, probably closer to 28mm wide when measured with calipers, my 23mm tires FYI measure exactly 23mm). Tires can't make up all the difference between a stiff aluminum bone shaker and a quality steel ride. ;)

You are making broad generalizations about steel and aluminum frames, and about narrow and wide tires. There are hand-made narrow racing tires that probably would give superior comfort compared to 35mm Specialized Armadillos, and there are high-quality aluminum frames that could give superior comfort compared to an uncommonly rigid steel frame.