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Chamois cream and padded shorts/bibs

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Chamois cream and padded shorts/bibs

Old 08-03-15, 09:14 AM
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Chamois cream and padded shorts/bibs

I'm hoping someone here can help me get some saddle relief. I've bought some of Aerotech's gear and found it to be very disappointing in both the fit (some are too small, some too big) and quality (last about 500 miles) department so I'm not interested in giving them another chance. Right now I'm at 385lbs and average about 100 miles a week at a 13mph pace with a steady cadence so I'm looking for something that will help keep the saddle sores at bay. What I need are the list of manufactures (custom or otherwise) that can or will make extended sizes of padded (preferably gel) shorts or bibs. I have two pairs of extended sizes Canaris on the way (5XL) but in the interim I'm wearing a pair of shorts under a pair of bibs and the comfort isn't too bad but all of my shorts and bibs are worn out and need to be replaced immediately.

Again, cost isn't an issue but if I'm going to spend money I want it to be for things that are going to last and that are actually comfortable. I've reached out to a number of "custom" cycling clothing makers and for most of them "extended sizes" are a US 2XL, which is not going to work. It's frustrating having money to spend and nobody willing to take it.

I'm also curious if there's a chamois cream out there that is a bit firmer and longer lasting than ASSOS. Here's the list of chamois creams I've tried and my experience with them:

- Chamois Butt'r: decent but does not last very long during the summer. I had to stop every three or four miles to reapply yesterday, which is beyond annoying.

- Chamois Butt'r Eurostyle: great but tends to need to be reapplied multiple times a ride.

- DZ Nuts: great, but does not last very long and tends to dry out during the summer. Perfect for the trainer but just doesn't last when the temperature is over 80 degrees and it's a ride longer than 20 miles.

- ASSOS Chamois Cream: excellent but difficult to carry on the bike and tends to fade in the heat.

I don't really care about the cost but I'm looking for something that will last and is more of a gel style than a straight cream. Gooch Guard, Betwixt, and Friction Freedom are three that I'm about ready to try but I thought I'd ask here before pulling the trigger on those.
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Old 08-03-15, 09:54 AM
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Well, I'll try. The short answer is we don't know your anatomy, nor would we want to, and we don't know your saddle, riding style, fit, etc. All of these have a real impact on your comfort.

First off, saddle. You're not sharing yet where it hurts / doesn't, when, and whether there are clear wear spots that would help from a hint point of view.

Second, your desire for gel. I'm 60% of your size, but I truly hate gel. Of the serious cyclists I know, exactly none of them have gel anything. It tends to mask fit issues, rather than truly address them. Good to get my wife out to ride when she generally doesn't want to? Yup. A sounds strategy for 100 miles per week? Not in my experience. I had gel bibs once. I actually spiked them into the trash.

Third, you told us your weight, but not height. Some bibs are much better for tall folks (Hincapie comes to mind).

Fourth, Assos is the best I've found. If you're worried about renewal on the trail, you can carry extra in a ziplock, or get the mini-packs of Butt'r. Heck, even a tube of hand lotion will help. But you shouldn't be going through it that fast.
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Old 08-03-15, 10:09 AM
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I mostly ride Performance shorts of various styles.
DZ Nuts has never dried out on me even on centuries and double metrics.
I am way Down South where it gets HOTTTTT !!
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Old 08-03-15, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by adrien
First off, saddle. You're not sharing yet where it hurts / doesn't, when, and whether there are clear wear spots that would help from a hint point of view.
Right now I'm using a Brooks B17 Narrow that has about 150 miles on it (so it's got a ways to go before it's broken in) but the issues were the same on all of my other saddles too, even after a fitting. On the B17 Standard that I put 4,000 miles on the wear spots are on the sit bones and on the tip. I upgrade the seatpost to a Thomson set back and changed the angle, which has helped with the perineum pain, but most of the pain now is still outside of the sit bones. I've tried, literally, 25 saddles (Fizik, WTB, Bontrager, Brooks, most of the Selle lines) over the past three months and the only one that I've found tolerable is the Brooks and of theirs only the B17, though I found it a bit wide hence why I'm giving the Narrow a shot now. Fizik makes some great saddles but now in a width that will work for me since, according to the Bontrager sit bones machine, I have 146 sit bones.

Originally Posted by adrien
Second, your desire for gel. I'm 60% of your size, but I truly hate gel. Of the serious cyclists I know, exactly none of them have gel anything. It tends to mask fit issues, rather than truly address them.
I'm willing to give anything a try so why not. I've tried all of the non-gel bibs/shorts in my size and, outside of Hincapie, none of them lasted for any appreciable period of time and some of them were straight up trash. I had a gel insert stitched into a pair of shorts last year and they actually felt great but I lost them moving. If riding around on a pillow stuffed with $20 bills would work I'd give it a go since my heart, lungs, and legs can easily do 100 miles in a day but my saddle region can't. I've refused to do any of those silly gel covers but if this pain doesn't go away I may have to if I want to do more than 30 miles in a day.

Originally Posted by adrien
Third, you told us your weight, but not height. Some bibs are much better for tall folks (Hincapie comes to mind).
I'm 6'3" and Hincapies are what I would love to buy again but they no longer make the 3XLs. The actual bibs of their I have are still in decent shape but the padding is pretty much gone at this point. I suppose I could replace the padding but I'd rather just buy new bibs if I can find them in my size.

Originally Posted by adrien
Fourth, Assos is the best I've found. If you're worried about renewal on the trail, you can carry extra in a ziplock, or get the mini-packs of Butt'r. Heck, even a tube of hand lotion will help. But you shouldn't be going through it that fast.
Assos is what I've liked so far but even it doesn't last very long during the summer. When I ride my fat bike or do 30-60 minutes on the trainer it does a fabulous job but over the past month or so (since it's gotten hot here) it doesn't last more than, at best, 10 miles.
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Old 08-03-15, 10:30 AM
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This summer I've been using Gold Bond medicated cream and it holds up well in Iowa's heat and humidity. Tried Bag Balm the other day when the heat index was higher and it worked pretty well. Sorry to hear that Aerotech hasn't held up for you. I have two sets of bibs that I like very much. But it is all about stuff that fits.
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Old 08-03-15, 10:52 AM
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Sounds like you've got some challenges -- sorry to read but also great to hear the persistence.

I do think you're on the right path, and would suggest some non-gel bibs that have a good chamois. I personally love the KISS one on Castellis, as well as Giordana and Hincapie. Not a fan of Assos despite what everyone says -- just felt odd to me. I looked it up -- looks like Castelli goes to 3xl Size Charts | Castelli ? An Unfair Advantage

Two other things -- are you mostly on a road bike? If so, tires can help, but it sounds like you've likely tackled that based on the thoroughness of your replies so far.

Second, on riding style -- how much are you in the saddle vs. out of it? At your size, and assuming fitness is the goal, rising out of the saddle more and training shorter distances but varying intensity will do much more for you, and be more comfortable as you'll ultimately have less weight on your sit bones, both in absolute terms and in terms of %.
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Old 08-03-15, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by adrien
Sounds like you've got some challenges -- sorry to read but also great to hear the persistence.
Thanks for the feedback and, yeah, while I have some challenges at this weight, I'm really happy to be able to grind out 100 miles in a week. If not for the excess weight I could really stack some miles but it's a process and I'm progressing so I just need to stay focused.

Originally Posted by adrien
I do think you're on the right path, and would suggest some non-gel bibs that have a good chamois. I personally love the KISS one on Castellis, as well as Giordana and Hincapie. Not a fan of Assos despite what everyone says -- just felt odd to me. I looked it up -- looks like Castelli goes to 3xl Size Charts | Castelli ? An Unfair Advantage


You know, I saw those and was curious if they might work. I've heard really good stuff about Castelli and if those are anything like the Hincapies they're well worth the money. Assos makes great chamois cream but I've heard the same about them that I've heard from Rapha - great marketing and a decent product but way overrated and overpriced. I've also heard Assos feel weird too. My problem with most of the "extended sizes" bibs are that the pads in them are maybe a step about brillo pads. Are they better than just riding on the saddle direct? Sure, but not much.

Originally Posted by adrien
Two other things -- are you mostly on a road bike? If so, tires can help, but it sounds like you've likely tackled that based on the thoroughness of your replies so far.
Yep, I have a Surly Cross Check that I ride during pavement season that I'm running Continental Contact II 32s on that are probably ready to be replaced. This week the shifters should be in for my new Ultegra groupset install so I might just go ahead and replace those while I'm having it overhauled. Any recommendations on tires in the 28-32 range? I like to run the tire pressure pretty high (usually the max) for a faster ride but I'm open to any suggestions.

Originally Posted by adrien
Second, on riding style -- how much are you in the saddle vs. out of it? At your size, and assuming fitness is the goal, rising out of the saddle more and training shorter distances but varying intensity will do much more for you, and be more comfortable as you'll ultimately have less weight on your sit bones, both in absolute terms and in terms of %.
I've started working in interval training to my weekly work out schedule so, to the best of my abilities at this time, I'm starting to do more out of the saddle sprinting to get the heart rate up (I wear a heart rate monitor at all times) to really maximize my training time. Right now I'm out of the saddle, maybe, 10% of the time but I've been hesitant to do much climbing until I replace my groupset this week (I'm paranoid about one of the crank arms breaking). My legs have gotten significantly stronger over the past couple of months so getting out the saddle to climb what passes as hills here in Minnesota is becoming less and less of a challenge but to really improve my riding ability (and overall health) I need to do that more often and at high intensities. Riding long distances is great and all but ultimately I need to get stronger and healthier and to do that I need to maximize my training time.

If you all have any recommendations on training guides (I have Joe Friel's "Training Bible" sitting right next to me) I'm totally open.
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Old 08-03-15, 11:14 AM
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I'm somewhat surprised the Aerotech bibs only lasted 500 miles. Mine (that I've outgrown - well more like out shrunk...) have close to 1000 miles and look like they have less than 50 on them. No wear at all. Maybe you're just hard on shorts or something. I also have t found the need to reapply cream during a ride and don't typically use it at all on rides of less than 25 miles. If you need that much of it, that seems to be a fit or saddle issue as much as anything.
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Old 08-03-15, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by bassjones
I'm somewhat surprised the Aerotech bibs only lasted 500 miles.
The jerseys last a long time, the shorts not so much. I actually bought a pair of the "baggy" MTB shorts and they were waaaay too small and wouldn't last being washed multiple times a week.
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Old 08-03-15, 12:38 PM
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You posted that you are wearing shorts under bibs. Have you always done so? If that is so then that is likely your problem. For cream I'm impressed with Mad Alchemy euro pro cream. I buy it mailorder from Competitive Cyclist. It lasts for more than a century even in heat.
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Old 08-03-15, 12:45 PM
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Me again.

On tires, and given your size and the fact that you have space, two occur to me, depending on budget and how intrepid you feel.

If you're riding mostly road and cuts don't bother you, I'd get a set of Vittoria Open Pave in 27. They are more expensive and more prone to cuts. BUT -- they are made of cotton casing, and provide a magic carpet ride. I rode Contis for years, and these, no kidding, are exponentially better in all but wear and flat resistance. Faster, but also notably smoother. Wiggle has the best price -- around $50 a pop. Get 3 so you have a backup.

Other option is one of the Panaracer lines. I personally have ridden Pasela tires a fair deal, and you can get 28s and 32s. You might also look at Gravel Kings in a 28, which is very similar to the Vittorias above -- but tougher, cheaper and won't be as sublime.

Both are more prone to flatting. Vittoria are much more tolerant of lower pressure. I'm 215, and they do fine under me in 27s on wide rims at 85/95. On my pure roadie, I ride them in 25s at 95/105. Fantastic tires.

On bibs -- try a pair of Castellis. Even their middle models are great. If I can make a leap here -- I love Hincapies, and love Castellis. If you like the Hincapies, then try the Castellis.

Have you tried cutout saddles? Selle Anatomic makes a cutout model that is similar to Brooks. Another whacky way to go is SMP, though those things are very locked-in -- some people love them.

For me, I settled on Spesh Romins, except for winter / long rides over 6 hours, when I go Fizik. Romin are very hard, but just the right shape for me.
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Old 08-03-15, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Black wallnut
You posted that you are wearing shorts under bibs. Have you always done so? If that is so then that is likely your problem. For cream I'm impressed with Mad Alchemy euro pro cream. I buy it mailorder from Competitive Cyclist. It lasts for more than a century even in heat.
I missed that... Yup, no underwear under cycling shorts. Skin directly on the chamois.
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Old 08-03-15, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Black wallnut
You posted that you are wearing shorts under bibs. Have you always done so?
This is a recent change since all of my Hincapie bibs have started to wear out along with my shorts. It's totally ridiculous and borderline dumb but at this weight it's actually worked to keep the blubber from spilling over where it doesn't belong and gives me good padding.

Originally Posted by Black wallnut
For cream I'm impressed with Mad Alchemy euro pro cream.
Thanks, I'll give that a try too!

Originally Posted by adrien
If you're riding mostly road and cuts don't bother you, I'd get a set of Vittoria Open Pave in 27. They are more expensive and more prone to cuts. BUT -- they are made of cotton casing, and provide a magic carpet ride. I rode Contis for years, and these, no kidding, are exponentially better in all but wear and flat resistance. Faster, but also notably smoother. Wiggle has the best price -- around $50 a pop. Get 3 so you have a backup.
I was actually looking at those as possible replacements. Cost isn't an issue with me (if I weren't this weight I'd have an S-Works) so I'm willing to roll the dice on those and see how they do.

Originally Posted by adrien
Have you tried cutout saddles? Selle Anatomic makes a cutout model that is similar to Brooks. Another whacky way to go is SMP, though those things are very locked-in -- some people love them.
I tried a couple of the Brooks cutouts and two of the Selle Anatomics and actually found them to be very uncomfortable. Cutouts work for some people but with this much excess weight (and blubber) it has to go somewhere and the cutout actually exacerbates that instead of ameliorating it. I tried an SMP too but couldn't find one with the right balance. I see why people love those but they just didn't feel right to me.

Originally Posted by adrien
For me, I settled on Spesh Romins, except for winter / long rides over 6 hours, when I go Fizik. Romin are very hard, but just the right shape for me.
I'm really hoping once the weight comes down a bit to switch everything over to Fizik, even though they're a little narrow. The Aliantes are fabulous saddles but right now I'm just way too heavy for them. The Romin is actually one of the saddles the fitter recommended but after my experience with the other cutout saddles I passed. If I ever get down to sub-300lbs it would probably be perfect, but right now those are just too painful.
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Old 08-03-15, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bassjones
I missed that... Yup, no underwear under cycling shorts. Skin directly on the chamois.
You both missed it, it's two pairs of chamois - a pair of PI shorts (decent pad, but rolls down) underneath a pair of Hincapie bibs (holds everything together, but the pad is almost gone).
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Old 08-03-15, 01:45 PM
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Perhaps the friction from the outside of the shorts is what's killing the pad of the bibs.
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Old 08-03-15, 01:54 PM
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I may be presuming here, but -- am I correct you're looking to get the weight down in part by cycling?

Off topic, but there are many great stories here. Mine pales, but I can share. Either way, this is a good group and if we can share on that front, we'd be happy to.

:-)
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Old 08-03-15, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by adrien
I may be presuming here, but -- am I correct you're looking to get the weight down in part by cycling?
Other way around - I'm taking the weight off so I can ride better, faster, and farther on the bike.

Six years ago I weighed 520lbs and, through changing my diet and getting active, have taken off almost 140lbs (depending on the day and water intake levels). Two summer ago I got down to 360lbs but started putting it back on (got up to 417 this past fall) and am slowly taking it off again. This is the second time I've taken off a considerable amount of weight (I took off 180lbs over 15 years ago) so I'm well aware exercise alone isn't going to take the pounds off, though it can certainly help. It's a process and a grind but it beats the alternative. Besides, I realize that for every 10lbs I take off that's another five or so miles I can ride each week without seriously damaging my internal organs and muscles.
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Old 08-03-15, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by RollingBlubber
Yep, I have a Surly Cross Check that I ride during pavement season that I'm running Continental Contact II 32s on that are probably ready to be replaced. This week the shifters should be in for my new Ultegra groupset install so I might just go ahead and replace those while I'm having it overhauled. Any recommendations on tires in the 28-32 range? I like to run the tire pressure pretty high (usually the max) for a faster ride but I'm open to any suggestions.
You need to run the right pressure in your tires for a faster ride, not the max pressure.

This article on tire pressure talks about that. And it has links to tire pressure calculators for your size and tire size.

You'll probably want 32s, so that you can lower the pressure a little. And if the tire has too much pressure in it, that will make the ride rougher, which will exacerbate the problems that you've been having.

This may not be a magic bullet, but if you do several things that help, then all of them together may give you a ride that is less troublesome.

GH
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Old 08-03-15, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by RollingBlubber
Other way around - I'm taking the weight off so I can ride better, faster, and farther on the bike.
Whatever works!
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Old 08-03-15, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by RollingBlubber
You both missed it, it's two pairs of chamois - a pair of PI shorts (decent pad, but rolls down) underneath a pair of Hincapie bibs (holds everything together, but the pad is almost gone).
I am not clear - have you tried a single layer with padding? We are all different of course, but for me, any extra layer of anything chafes (sp?) badly.

I have only used Aerotech stuff and oddly enough have had no wear out issues. Some of my bike shorts have thousands of miles on them, especially the ones from when I started riding a lot and only had 1 or 2 pair.

Another observation about Aerotech - the different types of shorts/tights have completely different fits and protection from pain. Towards the end of the year last year, my favorite shorts were the more expensive 8 panel (IIRC) ones, the entry level ones were not good for 20+ mile rides. This season, I started a tick heavier and am now lighter than last year but the entry level seem the most comfortable for long rides.

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Old 08-03-15, 05:47 PM
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I used to have the same problem. Stop wearing shorts over the bibs.

And if if you must wear shorts over bibs, there is a guy around the forum that makes custome made cycling gear. I have many of his clothes and love them all.
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Old 08-03-15, 05:58 PM
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Here is the link. The owner is awesome to work with!


Foxwear | Custom Sized Sports Outerwear | Made in Salmon, ID
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Old 08-03-15, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bassjones
I'm somewhat surprised the Aerotech bibs only lasted 500 miles. Mine (that I've outgrown - well more like out shrunk...) have close to 1000 miles and look like they have less than 50 on them. No wear at all. Maybe you're just hard on shorts or something. I also have t found the need to reapply cream during a ride and don't typically use it at all on rides of less than 25 miles. If you need that much of it, that seems to be a fit or saddle issue as much as anything.
Yes I will ditto on the aerotechs, I got mine in November last year and rode them nearly every day until I got my Performance ones in June this year, they must have 1500 miles on them at least and are still perfectly fine.

The best chamois cream for my is none :-).
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Old 08-03-15, 08:01 PM
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I don't know anything about these but Big & Tall clothing you might look here.
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Old 08-03-15, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by BigMo59
I don't know anything about these but Big & Tall clothing you might look here.
That's the Zinn site and everything is high quality. They have a pair of XXXLT on sale - last year's shorts. I'd snag em if I needed em and they were my size.
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