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Zwift rides for Clydes

Old 01-03-16, 11:47 AM
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Zwift rides for Clydes

Are there enough Zwift users here among the Clydes that we could possibly get some scheduled rides organized? I've done some solo rides and also tried the Sub 2 w/kg ride, but I still got dropped. I'd love to ride with some other Clydes to motivate us to ride more. It's snowing now in Portland, so I'm going to be on the trainer today.

If there's interest, how best to organize these so others will plan for them and participate? I'll throw out a first suggestion, short notice I know. How about a Zwift Richmond ride at 1:30 pm PT/4:30 pm ET today? Anybody interested in meeting for a ride?
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Old 01-03-16, 02:34 PM
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Zwift rides for Clydes

I will be interested.
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Old 01-03-16, 02:52 PM
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You mean for slow Clydes.
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Old 01-04-16, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster
You mean for slow Clydes.
Uh...no. I meant for any Clydes who are interested.
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Old 01-04-16, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by DoubleTap
Uh...no. I meant for any Clydes who are interested.
No...if you're getting dropped at sub-2w/kg, you mean slow clydes. I ride with some clydes that would blow you out the back quick, and that's what you're trying to avoid, right? We can say "slower," if it makes you feel better.
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Old 01-04-16, 11:47 AM
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I mentioned that I get dropped when riding with faster riders, but that doesn't mean I only want to ride with those at my level or speed. I believe that riding with faster riders makes me a faster rider, and I enjoy the camaraderie of this group.

All Clydes are welcome and invited. Try to add to the conversation, not just show how much smarter or faster you think you are.

Last edited by PhotoJoe; 01-04-16 at 06:56 PM. Reason: Removed Name-Calling
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Old 01-04-16, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubleTap
Are you always a dick? I mentioned that I get dropped when riding with faster riders, but that doesn't mean I only want to ride with those at my level or speed. I believe that riding with faster riders makes me a faster rider, and I enjoy the camaraderie of this group.

All Clydes are welcome and invited. Try to add to the conversation, not just show how much smarter or faster you think you are.
Well it certainly read like you wanted toride with a clyde group so you wouldn't get dropped, and I resent the assumption that "clyde" is equivalent to slow (or inexperienced, or low capability...whatever) rider. So when you said "no, not slow, I asked the question if you were not wanting to avoid being dropped, which seems perfectly reasonable to ask someone who complained about getting dropped but then denies wanting to ride with slower riders.

Last edited by PhotoJoe; 01-04-16 at 06:57 PM. Reason: Deleted reference to name-calling
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Old 01-04-16, 12:39 PM
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Hey, I'm in. When you weigh a lot, you can put out a lot of power without putting out a lot of w/kg. Meaning you get dropped by other riders alot.

Something my LBS does is group rides with an "A", "B" and "C". The "A" group is an all-out group, sneeze and get dropped. The "B" group rides at a fixed pace that's pretty brisk. The "C" group is a "no drop" group that rides at a very leisurely pace and doesn't drop anyone. I think an organized Clyde ride would be a lot of fun, even if we did it in two 'groups'. A front group with a set power output (like 2 w/kg or even 1.5 w/kg) and a 'no drop' group behind it that's paced to not drop anyone putting out an effort.

Part of the issue though is that "Clyde" can mean different things. There are professionals in the pro peloton who are Clydes; either over 6'4" or over 200lb. There was a lengthy discussion on Strava about "skinny people" being on the Clyde leaderboard. But Clyde doesn't mean "fat". It means over 6'4", OR over 200lb (for males). 200+ can in fact be an ideal weight for larger (tall and wide) riders.

This guy IS a clyde:


(He's just over 200lbs... a Clyde!) Very different from a 250lb+ (or even 350lb+!) guy trying to lose weight, putting out some serious efforts and serious watts, but is still quite slow.

So I think it would be great! Especially with a two group system. I'd even be down for a 1.5w/kg group. That can be a lot of power for a heavier rider. We've got some big guys and gals around here who are losing weight on a bicycle (I'm one of them!). A 260lb rider is going to have to sustain 240 watts+ to keep up with a 2w/kg group.

EDIT: The more I think about it, a 1.5w/kg "A" group and no-drop 1.0w/kg "B" group might make a lot of sense. Since there's ALREADY a 2w/kg group that rides regularly.

Sometimes we tend to forget some people are just starting out, too. 100 watts was a big deal when I first starting riding.
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Old 01-04-16, 01:01 PM
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Great input, Romans. I'm at about 1.7 w/kg right now, and your explanation is spot on. My original thought was to make this a ride for any Clydesdales interested, some perhaps riding slower and pushing others to ride stronger, similar to a real outdoor group ride. Obviously, those Clydes who are much stronger would likely self-select out of this ride because there are already many Zwift options for them, but they are welcome to our group regardless.

I'm riding the sub-2 ride tomorrow afternoon to see if I'm getting any stronger. I think within a few months I will be able to hang with them pretty well. I need to get my weight down to 250 and my FTP up to 240. That'll get me slightly over the 2 mark and hopefully able to hang with the sub-2 group and then begin to ride with the moderate speed groups also.

Last edited by DoubleTap; 01-04-16 at 01:03 PM. Reason: Corrected ride date
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Old 01-04-16, 01:20 PM
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I would also be interested in joining other clydes. I've been using Zwift quite a bit over the past few months and love it. Been sick for the past week but will probably be jumping back on over the next few days. Is that time the general kind of starting time your looking at? Time zone wise for me the 1:30/2pm PT is just do able. That is about 6:30am for me.
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Old 01-04-16, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubleTap
Great input, Romans. I'm at about 1.7 w/kg right now, and your explanation is spot on. My original thought was to make this a ride for any Clydesdales interested, some perhaps riding slower and pushing others to ride stronger, similar to a real outdoor group ride. Obviously, those Clydes who are much stronger would likely self-select out of this ride because there are already many Zwift options for them, but they are welcome to our group regardless.

I'm riding the sub-2 ride tomorrow afternoon to see if I'm getting any stronger. I think within a few months I will be able to hang with them pretty well. I need to get my weight down to 250 and my FTP up to 240. That'll get me slightly over the 2 mark and hopefully able to hang with the sub-2 group and then begin to ride with the moderate speed groups also.
What time do you usually ride? Even if we can't get a group together, I'd love to ride with you!
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Old 01-04-16, 06:59 PM
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MOD NOTE: I've done a minor cleanup here. Name calling is not allowed, even when a perceived tone seems to elicit it. The OP's intent is clear and I hope some members can take advantage.
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Old 01-04-16, 07:07 PM
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So I just watched the demo video. I'm assuming there is no "in-game" chat feature, or am I missing something?
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Old 01-04-16, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by PhotoJoe
So I just watched the demo video. I'm assuming there is no "in-game" chat feature, or am I missing something?
Yeah it's kind of a "blast to everyone" type chat feature using the mobile app. There are lots of great 3rd party solutions though if you want to do a group only chat; like a voice chat system like Teamspeak, etc.

As of yet there's no way to do any sort of private message or group chat channel. You just send a message and it appears as a "bubble" on the screen. Occasionally, it gets a little "busy" and it's hard to keep track.
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Old 01-05-16, 10:00 AM
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There's a Sub-2T ride tonight at 8 p.m. ET. I hope others can join is. They'll be using TeamSpeak Zwift Channel 2 tonight.
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Old 01-05-16, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by DoubleTap
There's a Sub-2T ride tonight at 8 p.m. ET. I hope others can join is. They'll be using TeamSpeak Zwift Channel 2 tonight.
I'll be there!
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Old 01-05-16, 10:32 AM
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Im working on getting a trainer so I can try it too. Nashbar has a 24% off day today and I'm looking at the jet fluid pro 2 trainer. Not sure if That would work or if I should get a full on electric one with Bluetooth or do I need the ANT version. I have an iPhone, Garmin edge and Garmin speed sensors.
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Old 01-05-16, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Flatbroke
Im working on getting a trainer so I can try it too. Nashbar has a 24% off day today and I'm looking at the jet fluid pro 2 trainer. Not sure if That would work or if I should get a full on electric one with Bluetooth or do I need the ANT version. I have an iPhone, Garmin edge and Garmin speed sensors.
Bluetooth works with Zwift but it's in beta and a little finnicky as of yet. You need to pair through a smartphone, you can't pair directly to the machine you're running Zwift on even if it supports BTLE.

IMHO, get a good, name-brand trainer that works with zPower (not just vPower); unless you have a power meter. If you do, zPower is moot.

zPower works with;

  • Kinetic Rock and Roll
  • Kinetic Road Machine
  • CycleOps Fluid²
  • JetBlack Z1 Fluidpro

The reason for that 'short list' is those are the trainers Zwift has tested to be accurate, progressive, and predictable. I have the Road Machine and love it. If you don't have one of those trainers, you'll have to use the less accurate "virtual power" curve. Which is fine, but if you're going to drop money on a trainer, then you might consider getting one that's going to give you the most accurate power numbers.

A BIG advantage of the Kinetic Road Machine is that you can pair the inRide pod, which is a calibratable speed-based power sensor that works very similar to the way the Wahoo KICKR works. It's much more accurate and much higher resolution (meaning less lag and delay) than a wheel speed sensor and a tradition trainer. The sensor itself goes on the trainer. It's bluetooth only, so you have to pair it through the Zwift mobile app. That's what I personally use (the inRide pod on a Kurt Kinetic).

If you've got the budget for it, a smart trainer (like the Kickr, some Tacx models, etc.) will report power back to Zwift, AND, Zwift will adjust resistance based on the road. Meaning hills will feel like hills, you'll need to shift into an easier gear. Whereas on a traditional trainer, it's actually the opposite. If you want to go faster up a hill, you need to shift into a harder gear and/or pedal faster. At the end of the day, Zwift calculates speed based on watts, weight, and gradient. So going up a grade faster requires more watts. The smart trainers make this more 'realistic' by increasing the resistance when on a hill. It is, admittedly, a little 'weird' to be pedaling at the same speed and same resistance, then suddenly slow down considerably up a hill. The smart trainer will be more realistic.

So really it comes down to budget. IMHO, the Kurt Kinetic Road Machine is the best dumb trainer you can buy. It's not super expensive. You can get the older version on Amazon for like $330 (it's the exact same resistance unit, just a few aesthetic tweaks and it supports some bigger MTB tires), get the inRide pod for $75, and you'll have a very, very accurate trainer. Lots of folks have compared a properly warmed up, properly set up and calibrated Kinetic Road Machine w/ inRide and found it to be very similar to their power meters numbers. Again, it's the same speed and spin-down technology that the Kickr uses. (At least; the same 'concept').

EDIT: Oh, and if you DO get a smart trainer, make SURE that it's compatible with Zwift (check their website). There are a couple of models out there that it's not compatible with. It would suck to drop hundreds of dollars on a smart trainer only to not be able to take advantage of a smart trainers most important feature; the adjustable resistance!
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Old 01-05-16, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Flatbroke
Im working on getting a trainer so I can try it too. Nashbar has a 24% off day today and I'm looking at the jet fluid pro 2 trainer. Not sure if That would work or if I should get a full on electric one with Bluetooth or do I need the ANT version. I have an iPhone, Garmin edge and Garmin speed sensors.
I looked at their list of supported trainers and am going to pull the trigger tonight on either the Nashbar Fluid Trainer or the Tacx Blue Matic. I already have a Wahoo Blue SC This seems like a lot of fun.
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Old 01-05-16, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by bo31210
I looked at their list of supported trainers and am going to pull the trigger tonight on either the Nashbar Fluid Trainer or the Tacx Blue Matic. I already have a Wahoo Blue SC This seems like a lot of fun.
Just keep in mind that there's a big difference between the "zPower" and "virtual power" supported trainers. Not to say you won't have fun, or have a good without, with a virtual power trainer (of course you will!). Just that the zPower trainers are a lot more accurate and much better supported by Zwift. Worth mentioning in case that's important to you.
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Old 01-05-16, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by RomansFiveEight
Bluetooth works with Zwift but it's in beta and a little finnicky as of yet. You need to pair through a smartphone, you can't pair directly to the machine you're running Zwift on even if it supports BTLE.

IMHO, get a good, name-brand trainer that works with zPower (not just vPower); unless you have a power meter. If you do, zPower is moot.

zPower works with;

  • Kinetic Rock and Roll
  • Kinetic Road Machine
  • CycleOps Fluid²
  • JetBlack Z1 Fluidpro

The reason for that 'short list' is those are the trainers Zwift has tested to be accurate, progressive, and predictable. I have the Road Machine and love it. If you don't have one of those trainers, you'll have to use the less accurate "virtual power" curve. Which is fine, but if you're going to drop money on a trainer, then you might consider getting one that's going to give you the most accurate power numbers.

A BIG advantage of the Kinetic Road Machine is that you can pair the inRide pod, which is a calibratable speed-based power sensor that works very similar to the way the Wahoo KICKR works. It's much more accurate and much higher resolution (meaning less lag and delay) than a wheel speed sensor and a tradition trainer. The sensor itself goes on the trainer. It's bluetooth only, so you have to pair it through the Zwift mobile app. That's what I personally use (the inRide pod on a Kurt Kinetic).

If you've got the budget for it, a smart trainer (like the Kickr, some Tacx models, etc.) will report power back to Zwift, AND, Zwift will adjust resistance based on the road. Meaning hills will feel like hills, you'll need to shift into an easier gear. Whereas on a traditional trainer, it's actually the opposite. If you want to go faster up a hill, you need to shift into a harder gear and/or pedal faster. At the end of the day, Zwift calculates speed based on watts, weight, and gradient. So going up a grade faster requires more watts. The smart trainers make this more 'realistic' by increasing the resistance when on a hill. It is, admittedly, a little 'weird' to be pedaling at the same speed and same resistance, then suddenly slow down considerably up a hill. The smart trainer will be more realistic.

So really it comes down to budget. IMHO, the Kurt Kinetic Road Machine is the best dumb trainer you can buy. It's not super expensive. You can get the older version on Amazon for like $330 (it's the exact same resistance unit, just a few aesthetic tweaks and it supports some bigger MTB tires), get the inRide pod for $75, and you'll have a very, very accurate trainer. Lots of folks have compared a properly warmed up, properly set up and calibrated Kinetic Road Machine w/ inRide and found it to be very similar to their power meters numbers. Again, it's the same speed and spin-down technology that the Kickr uses. (At least; the same 'concept').

EDIT: Oh, and if you DO get a smart trainer, make SURE that it's compatible with Zwift (check their website). There are a couple of models out there that it's not compatible with. It would suck to drop hundreds of dollars on a smart trainer only to not be able to take advantage of a smart trainers most important feature; the adjustable resistance!
thanks
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Old 01-05-16, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by RomansFiveEight
Just keep in mind that there's a big difference between the "zPower" and "virtual power" supported trainers. Not to say you won't have fun, or have a good without, with a virtual power trainer (of course you will!). Just that the zPower trainers are a lot more accurate and much better supported by Zwift. Worth mentioning in case that's important to you.
there are a couple versions of the road machine. I found the road machine, road machine 2.0 and the road machine smart. Which one should I get? Not sure what the difference is between the road machine and the 2.0. The 2.0 isn't listed on the kinetic web site as far as i can see.
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Old 01-05-16, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Flatbroke
there are a couple versions of the road machine. I found the road machine, road machine 2.0 and the road machine smart. Which one should I get? Not sure what the difference is between the road machine and the 2.0. The 2.0 isn't listed on the kinetic web site as far as i can see.
The road machine "smart" comes bundled with the inRide pod. When I looked though, it was like $100 more; and the pod can be bought separately for $75 on Amazon. That's the route I went. So, effectively, I HAVE a "smart" road machine.

The 2.0 is a slightly updated model. The resistance unit is exactly the same, but the 2.0 will support some other tire sizes, I think it might support fat bikes. And it has rubber feet instead of hard plastic feet. All in all, unless you have a bike that won't work with the 1.0, the 1.0 is a better deal; it's usually cheaper.
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Old 01-05-16, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by RomansFiveEight
The road machine "smart" comes bundled with the inRide pod. When I looked though, it was like $100 more; and the pod can be bought separately for $75 on Amazon. That's the route I went. So, effectively, I HAVE a "smart" road machine.

The 2.0 is a slightly updated model. The resistance unit is exactly the same, but the 2.0 will support some other tire sizes, I think it might support fat bikes. And it has rubber feet instead of hard plastic feet. All in all, unless you have a bike that won't work with the 1.0, the 1.0 is a better deal; it's usually cheaper.
343.55 shipped for the road machine smart is what I've found. On westernbikeworks. Seems like a good deal. They also have the Rock and roll. Is that one worth getting or is it harder to use since it moves
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Old 01-05-16, 06:59 PM
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I ordered the road machine smart unit. Do I need the heart rate monitor or does it come with it and or will my Garmin ones work
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