americanrecluse

Hi all,

I keep having random questions pop up, and since this is my safe space, I hope it's okay to start this thread here even if all questions are not, strictly speaking, C/A issues.

First up, hydration! I took a short ride yesterday - a bit later and hotter than usual. I forgot my water and was pretty spent when I found a spot to buy a bottle, around mile 4! Unfortunately the water was super cold so I couldn't drink much. I took a good long break, warming the water against my skin and taking small sips, but I felt like I needed a break as soon as I started pedaling again. At mile 6 I almost called my roommate to bring the van but I was too embarrassed. And I was only 2.5 miles from home! I made it home and spent the rest of the day trying to rehydrate but was nauseated and shaky most of the day. At 8.5 miles, this ride was a little bit shorter than my norm of 10-12.

So, that was weird. The question is: Is hydration a matter of my body adapting to what I do, or do I need to be smarter/more careful/make better choices? Or is it both?

Second - standing to pedal! Is this a matter of strength, or confidence, or....? I can stand and not pedal, but as soon as I start to pedal, my butt drops into the seat. Am I doing it wrong because my weight is on my feet? Should I be leaning harder on my hands?

cyccommute 

You were (are) suffering from a heat illness. I'd say that you were at least to the point of heat exhaustion and possibly starting into heat stroke. Neither is good. You don't need to go very far in hot weather to suffer either. The key to treatment is to get you core temperature down and to get your fluid level up. Here's a good article on how to treat it.

No, you don't necessarily "adapt" to heat exhaustion. The key is not to go without water when it is hot. And, contrary to what you may have heard, cold water is best. It absorbs faster and it cools your core temperature better. It's best if you carry it with you. The best way to do that is to carry a hydration pack (aka Camelbak) stuffed with as much ice as it can hold...especially for longer rides.

The hydration pack offers several features that water bottles just can't offer. The water stays colder longer...which is good. The ice in the bag will also serve to cool you and the water is far more refreshing than bath tub temperature water from a water bottle. It's also like carrying your own personal air conditioner. Not a good one but it's better than the sun beating down on your back.

Perhaps the most critical feature that the hydration pack offers is convenience. With a water bottle, you have to pull the bottle out, drink and put it back. There's a certain amount of fumbling going on while doing that which most newbies...on not a few veteran riders... struggle with. The hydration pack, on the other hand, has a tube right at your shoulder. It's easy to just reach up and put the tube in your mouth. Very little fumbling. I find that I drink more and more often when I use a hydration pack than if I'm using water bottles.

jade408

I personally feel awful when I get dehydrated when it is hot! I have zero heat tolerance, get heat rash aand everything.

I drink coconut water for sure to replace the electrolytes. That goes down a lot easier for me. Also for me queasiness can be a sign of low blood sugar too. Maybe keep some of those nuun tablet or similar in your bag. These help me on those hot days (the grocery store has electrolyte packets too).

I have a sensitive stomach though, so I could be really weird! I definitely can't drink super cold water when I have that queasy feeling. Yesterday I was out and about doing my errands by bike, as I got closer to home (and it goes uphill for a lot of it), I had no energy and started feeling crappy. I usually walk my bike for the last block (uphill, crappy street quality, weird street layout, it is just easier), I could barely make it. I got home and realize I had barely had any food and it was 6pm. Nowhere near enough food to support even a no activity day. I had a snack and hurried up to eat dinner. Then I felt better. Low blood sugar did me in!

FrenchFit 

Hydration: You train into to some extent. My wife and I (oldsters) will ride 30m/rt in the sun and just take a few sips. But that comes with years of riding. One trick, hydrate really well before you leave the house, and again at your intermediate destination if you are doing a loop. You may need a nature stop somewhere along the way, but that what coffee houses are for. If you do get overheated, get into the shade, drink, lie down. It may take 20-30 minutes for you to absorb enough liquid to feel strong again, but that's what MP3 players are for. I did a century when the temps were over 110, if I can do it anyone can do it.

Standing: Your bike may not be set up well for standing, crank forward bikes, dutch bikes, are terrible for out of the seat mashing. That aside, you need to be in a high gear to resist your body weight. Typically, go up in effort two gears from sitting. A great way to gain confidence is go to a spin class and spend most of the class out of the saddle, you'll get the necessary strength and coordination quickly. Same is true for riding the drops, adjust your seat up and drop that spin bike bars to the lowest setting, a few sessions in a fully rotated position and any bike will feel comfortable with seat above the bars.

cyccommute 

While I agree about the feet forward bikes and using a spin class to learn how to ride out of the saddle (maybe), I don't agree with the common wisdom of shifting up when climbing or riding out of the saddle. I climb and sprint out of the saddle all the time and have never found upshifting to help.

The problem with upshifting when you get out of the saddle is the transition at the beginning and end. If I shift before I get out of the saddle, I'm bogged down and pedaling becomes harder. Standing becomes less of an option at that point. If I stand and try to shift, the system is under a lot of tension and the shift may not happen. In either case, I'm back on the saddle trying to fiddle with the drivetrain rather than actually standing to ride up a hill.

If I do manage to upshift and stand, when I sit back down, I'm in a gear that is too high to comfortably pedal and I'm probably in anaerobic debit. Now I have to down shift and end up going slower than if I'd just have stayed seated and ground out the hill. And, again, I'm fiddling with the drivetrain rather than riding up the hill.

I find it easier to remain in the same gear and adjust cadence as needed. Sure my cadence falls a little when I get out of the saddle but cadence can vary quite a bit and still remain comfortable.

To americanrecluse: Pedaling out of the saddle can seem difficult at first but is fairly simple to master. One of the things I see a lot of people trying to do is to keep their hips right above the saddle and trying to pedal from there. It looks...and is...awkward. You need to be further forward towards the handlebars when you get out of the saddle. This makes you stand up a bit further and you can push down on the pedals harder.

Try standing up to coast first. Put your feet parallel with the ground and just push up with your legs. You'll find that this action pushes you forward on the bike towards the handlebars. Optimally, you should be about centered between the saddle and the handlebars. Do this a number of times until it becomes natural.

Once it feels right, while holding on the bars lightly, push down with one foot. You'll find that your body tips toward that foot. The bike should naturally tilt the other way. If you push down with your other foot, your body will tilt that way and the bike will tilt the opposite direction. Your knee will be close to the bar but shouldn't hit the bar You don't have to push hard...yet...but just get used to the feeling of letting you and your bike tilt the way they want to tilt.

Once you get used to the feeling of the bike moving under you and you moving above it, you can start to push on the pedal harder. You can exaggerate the bike tilt more...and get a bit more power...by pulling up on the bar on the same side as you push down on. You are looking for a very natural feeling rhythm.

TrojanHorse

Hydration happens all day long. Especially in hot weather! Make sure you drink plenty of water all day every day, and of course, take it with you. I personally usually consume about a 24 oz bottle of water per hour when I'm riding (more in hot weather, less in cool weather).

You'll get used to it, just keep riding!

NYSteve

Great questions Recluse!

I remember when I was a kid i stoop up all the time. I was able to stand up on my pedals at level and stand with no hands. I have tried and tried and tried to stand and pedal while standing and cant do it. I can ride standing on my pedals going down hill. I love doing this. I look for hills now, just so I can go down them standing.

1nterceptor

"I took a short ride yesterday - a bit later and hotter than usual."

Was it around noon? If you have a choice on the time of your ride(s); I would try to avoid this time during the summer.
For me the actual temp. doesn't seem to bother me. It's weather or not I'm getting a lot of direct sun. And high humidity
saps a lot of my energy. Try stopping and resting a bit; finding routes with more shade; maybe going slower than your
normal effort.

Last time I was in southern California; a heat wave was on. Didn't have a choice on what time to ride since I was on the
airline's schedule. Packed my bike on board a NYC to LA flight. Touched down in LAX; threw the box my bike was in and
biked to my hotel in Anaheim. Stopped at a few 7-11's to refill my waterbottle with their ice & US$1 big drinks(Gatorade).
Also hanged out a bit inside the store to cool off. Since I was a customer; staff/owner didn't seem to mind. Made it to my
hotel okay but got lost on a few turns; ended up doing 50 miles on a 40 mile route. A day or 2 later; found out I got burned
by the back of my neck. Even though I remembered to put sunscreen on my face and arms; I forgot to put some behind
my neck. So that's another tip for you.

Black wallnut 

Hydration, start early and hydrate often. Proper nutrition also plays a role in this.

I have had good results with learning to stand, first on the trainer then on the road. Shifting two gears harder works for me, then stand. Pick a spot in front to ride to standing. Then sit down and easy spin while downshifting.

Miele Man

What type of bicycle are you riding?

On hot humid days I use stainless steel Theromses to keep my supply of water cold. I have a bottle mount on my handlebar and in that bottle I keep about 8 ozs (250 ml) of water to drink whilst riding. When that bottle is empty or if I need more water than what's in it I just refill it from the Thermos.

Another trick is if you have a large enough saddle bag to hold a bottle or two of water you can freeze the water and carry the bottles there. I have a mount I made from an extra threadless stem that I attach to my seat tube that then allows me to mount my handlebar baag behind the saddle and I can put a number of bottles of frozen water in that bag without affecting the handling of the bike.

#2 Step 4a Handlebar Bag on Stem by Miele Man, on Flickr

#2 Step 4b Handlebar Bag on Stem by Miele Man, on Flickr

Cheers

StephenH

On your ride- hard to say- but lesson learned, take your water with you. But, FYI, I can do my 20 mile ride when it's hot without any water, I'm just thirsty when I get back, so not sure how different people respond to heat.


On standing- a large part of that is how much leg muscle you have relative to your weight- gets a lot easier when you lose weight or build up more muscle- may depend somewhat on handlebar positioning- and always LOTS easier if you shift into a higher gear, rather than spinning in a lower gear.

americanrecluse

Hi all! Thanks so much for the great replies!

To answer some questions:
I ride a Trek FX 7.3. I normally ride out at about 7:00am to get full sunlight but less heat. On the day in question I left the house around 9:30. I haven't yet dared a night ride.

I usually carry two 16oz bottles - one room temp in the cage, and one super cold that I carry in a string bag on my back, although I don't often have to bust that one out.

@cyccommute - I think you are absolutely right about the heat exhaustion. It was pretty bad, and clearly dangerous. I was embarrassed about stopping to rest, felt weird about standing in front of some random stranger's house for more than 2-3 minutes, and that was another of my mistakes! I just wanted to get home. Also thank you so much for the suggestion on standing! I think you're right that the tilt spooks me a bit.

I've had difficulty adjusting to the dry air here, and I'm sure that is part of my hydration issue as well. I will work on doing better at this.

@jade408 - I am going to try coconut water! Cold water nauseates me too. Ugh!

Another question - I want to get better, and I'm pretty much at a "nowhere to go but up!" state. I want to be able to do longer rides, a bit faster and with less difficulty, and I also want to be able to ride hills.

Are these separate skills that come separately? Or, for example, will riding hills increase my overall strength and endurance?

Here are two options that are easily available to me - I wonder if you have an opinion on which is best, given my goals:

1) There is a non-busy park close to home that has a short-ish, steep hill that ends in a parking lot. I imagine that going from the parking lot to the top of the hill then back down and to the lot would be about 1/2 mile round trip. I went exploring one day, found the park, and the hill was pretty hard. I could go there and just ride up and down it over and over.

2) There's a bus line near me with a dedicated, protected bike path along its entire length. I have ridden this once - took the bus to the end of the line, then rode home - 26 miles. It took a really long time and semi-killed me, although of course I felt pretty triumphant about the whole thing. So I could do that again and again.

Is one option better than the other for building endurance without, say, turning me into a big whiner who whines about cycling being work instead of fun?

DarthMonkey

variety for the win! Doing a mix of both is the best.

Although if it were me I would start with the short course more often (during the week) and ride the long one on the weekend when I had more time. Once speed improves that is less of an issue.

Also, as you get a bit stronger try alternating the 26 mile ride between a sustainable tempo for the whole ride and short sprints followed with a minute or two of easy spin, then another sprint.

Keep looking for new routes/places because biking the same thing all the time gets boring. Part of biking is seeing new places, or old places at a slower pace and catching new details.

americanrecluse

Oh, good call @DarthMonkey! What I neglected to mention is that the park is close to the subway stop I ride to several days each week. So in theory, on the days I ride and don't have to go to the store after work, I could easily swing over to the park for a couple trips up and down the hill!

gobicycling

You don't have to stand to be a good rider.

Often forgotten is that your heart rhythm control can be very affected by your electrolyte balance/imbalance, which can easily be thrown off by sweating a lot and drinking water. I mix a sports drink 1/2 with water, as this happened to me recently. I thought I was back in AFib - something I left many years ago.

Tolerance to heat varies tremendously. I had some gamma knife surgery this past year, essentially killing a nerve (on purpose) but the side effect was a loss of feeling in 1/2 of my face, EXCEPT that everything now seems hot when it did not use to. So, my heat tolerance has greatly decreased - and I now need to consider it, when I did not use to. In my 20's I was a forest fire fighter, and nothing heat-wise bothered me. In my upper 70's all is changed, sadly, and I need to be more careful.

Heat stroke is a killer. Heat prostration is not too great either. Great recommendations.

Good questions.

americanrecluse

@gobicycling - oh, that 1/2 water 1/2 sports drink idea is a good one! I find sports drinks too sweet and often horrid tasting, but cutting it with water will surely help.

PatrickR400

I use GU tablets in my water bottles but it took a few rides to get accustomed to the taste and you have to insure that the bottle vents because the tablets create a pressure inside the bottle which can become messy.

When I don't want to use GU, I use a table spoon of Real Lemon concentrate per bottle.

As for hydration, drink water before the ride, your pee should be almost clear is you are hydrated enough. Starts you on the right foot.

GravelMN

I strongly suspect you were already dehydrated and possibly on the verge of heat exhaustion when you started your ride. Riding <10 miles, even in hot weather, should not create that degree of incapacitation even if if you didn't drink anything in the first half of the ride. Just how hot and humid was it and what else had you been doing that day or over the past few days?

You can acclimate to heat to some degree but once you are dehydrated and into heat exhaustion, the only choice is to get out of the heat (but not to the point that you chill and start to shiver), rehydrate (my personal rehydration choice is the same as what I carry in my water bottles, 1/4 cup lemon juice in a 24 oz bottle with a couple tablespoons of honey and a good pinch of Morton Lite Salt, which is half sodium chloride, half potassium chloride), and rest until you feel better (this can take a couple of days in more serious cases).

Here are some ways to check your hydration level:

- Your urine should be pale yellow and you should be urinating 250 ml or more every 3-4 hours. If your urine is dark and has a strong odor or you haven't urinated a normal volume in more than 4 hours, you are dehydrated.

- Look at the veins in the back of your hands with your hands held level. If they are less prominent than normal, chances are you are dehydrated.

- Gently pinch up a fold of skin on the back of your hand and hold it for 5 seconds. Release and start counting. If it takes more than 5 seconds for the fold to completely disappear, you are dehydrated. If it takes between 3 and 5 seconds, you might be dehydrated to a lesser extent. If it snaps back in <3 seconds, significant dehydration is unlikely. Note that as you age this sign becomes less reliable as your skin loses elasticity, so do consider that if you are over 45.

- If your heart rate goes up and/or you become light headed when you first stand up, you may be dehydrated. This can also be a symptom of other conditions, so if this persists, becomes more severe or is accompanied by other symptoms, please seek medical attention.

Signs of heat exhaustion include:

- Generalized weakness
- Pale, sweaty skin
- Nausea/Vomiting
- Dizziness
- Headache
- Confusion
- Drowsiness
- Muscle pain or cramps

Cyccommute mentioned heat stroke which is a very serious condition. Signs include:

- Dry, red, hot skin (if you stop sweating while you are overheated, that is a bad sign)
- Increasing body temperature (like a bad fever)
- Severe confusion, headache and/or loss of consciousness
- Rapid heart rate

If you suspect someone of having heat stroke, get them out of the heat ASAP and actively cool them with cool water, fanning, etc. CALL 911 heat stroke is a true emergency and can cause brain damage or be fatal.

As for standing while pedaling, it takes practice. I find that shifting up to the next harder gear helps. Shift your weight forward, not so much onto your hands as onto your feet. Lean forward slightly. It is important to continue to pedal in circles rather with than an up and down motion. Think elliptical trainer, not stair stepper. Don't allow your knees to lock at the bottom of the stroke. You will put additional strain on your quads, so they will fatigue quickly at first. Start with just a few pedal strokes out of the saddle then add a little bit each day. Watch other riders to see how they shift their weight.

DarthMonkey

nuun also makes decent tablets, but i find some flavors are disgusting, but others are pretty good. Flavor + electrolyte but no sugars can be a good thing if you are doing short rides or getting calories from another source.

lemon flavor can make water more appealing and easier to drink but be careful because lemon is also a diuretic.

gobicycling

There are numerous different sports/nutrition drinks or make your own. I do not like Gatorade and use others. Try several until you find one you like.

ChuckD6421 

Here's my US $0.02, based on years as a competitive/long distance touring/hardcore commuting bike dog who's seen his maker many times thru dehydration and starvation (The Bonk).
I like what everyone has offered here and even picked up a few tips I didn't know about. Hydration begins before you ride. If you feel thirsty (and not just a dry mouth), it's probably too late. Hydration is more than just water. I've really come to like the Skratch Labs products. All natural, meant for the pros but good for us mortals too. I sweat like a sponge being wrung out and my sweat burns my eyes, which leads me to conclude I lose a lot of chemicals. So an electrolyte is critical and has solved all my calf cramping issues (often due to electrolyte depletion/imbalance). I also really like a beer mug of V8 Fusion juice on lots of crushed ice after a hot ride.

One other concern I had while reading was about the time of day and the air quality there. I believe your proximity to LA should make you take note of ozone and other pollution levels, especially later in the day.

TrojanHorse

Try camelback elixer tablets (you can bust them in half too). They provide a little electrolyte and a little flavor with no sweetness. Non-gatorade sports drinks (of the cycling variety... ) tend to be far less sweet. The G2 low-cal gatorade is also less sweet and of course you can mix it at less than full strength.

Here's the air quality map for LA county: AQMD GIS Maps

I tend to ignore it unless it's really bad or I'd never get out of the house, but you can sign up for alerts when it's really bad.

FrenchFit 

Don't fret with sports drinks, they will train you to burn sugar for fuel... and that will dehydrate you faster.

The hills are great,- interval training But you should get base miles under your belt first. 15-20 mile round trips, ending fairly fresh, should be a solid start. Then add shorter, higher effort rides. As you gain bike fitness, push you total miles and discover your thresholds. My 62 yo spouse rides 30 r/t on a moderately heavy mixte twice a week, you can easily do that on your Trek with a little patience. There is nothing to be gained by rushing it, take your time and build your bike fitness level - or else you will be nursing some chronic injury. Or...attack the basic fitness issue in spin class, you will get into bike shape a lot quicker - if you work hard in spin your bike will feel like a rocketship.

americanrecluse

@GravelMN - I think I get dehydrated easily/often, although I make an effort to hydrate properly. I force myself to refill my bottle at work at least 3 times, for example. But it seems that I lean toward the dehydrated in general even though my urine is typically clear-ish other than first thing in the morning.

@TrojanHorse - thank you so much for the link! I think I'm one of those "sensitive individuals" mentioned in the hierarchy of alerts so I've signed up!

@FrenchFit - your logic sounds good to me, and made me think of this: My legs get tired fast. Like, FAST. Like, 1-1.5 miles in* fast. Because I ride early, I tend to only have about a cup of coffee and about the same amount of water in me when I go out. Tomorrow I'm going to do it differently - more water, and something small to eat - and see if that doesn't change things both with the hydration issue and the "my legs are jelly" thing. If the wobbly legs aren't nutrition, then surely the problem is strength, which means your suggestion to focus on distance over hills is the way to go right now. Does that sound right? Or possibly right?

* my normal weekend ride takes me through a very large 6-point intersection just prior to the one mile point. There's some "humping it" involved in getting through this intersection (hence the standing to pedal question), and it's some small distance after that my legs become jelly. Then I recover a little bit, and hit SUPER DUPER FOR REAL jelly stage around mile 11-12.

FrenchFit 

Think in terms of months and years, not days. Your mantra while riding should be "all day long" and if you are scooting around at 8 mph that's completely fine - the fitness will come. Pushing too hard too fast and then blowing up is classic wanker behavior.