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Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) Looking to lose that spare tire? Ideal weight 200+? Frustrated being a large cyclist in a sport geared for the ultra-light? Learn about the bikes and parts that can take the abuse of a heavier cyclist, how to keep your body going while losing the weight, and get support from others who've been successful.

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Old 12-04-17, 07:58 AM   #26
ill.clyde
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Thanks for the input. Ideally one should be using the "terrain" of the Zwift course to determine resistance....not possible with dumb trainers. Mine is a fairly solid fluid trainer that's perfectly suitable for training, but not interactive training.

I read the DCRainmaker https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/10/...endations.html blog on trainers and I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the Kickr Snap. For now I'll muddle along in dumbness as Zwift makes the trainer time more palatable -- it was a lot more palatable at $10.00/month, but now it's $16.25 (tax included). Also going to explore the Bkool app to see how it compares.
I went with the Snap and I'm very happy with it so far. I was on the fence about it, but after being reminded "Buy Once, Cry Once" I pulled the trigger and I'm glad I did. I've ridden more, on average, in the month since I got it, than in my average in the two months prior (as the weather was turning toward winter).

I'm also getting involved with a US-based "club" that is just starting out, and I'm likely going to be leading some climbing rides just for Clydes and Athenas. C&As are a seriously under served group on Zwift
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Old 12-04-17, 09:30 AM   #27
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Very true and exactly the opposite of how one would shift on the road. Training by doing things the opposite of what you should normally do is counter-productive. Sure, the ride is good and the numbers jive, but you're shifting assbackwards from how you would face ascents and descents.
Wow, that's a scary scenario. Has shifting on a trainer screwed-up your on-road shifting ability? I wouldn't think that could happen, but then, I've been riding geared bikes for close to 40 years, so what gears do and why I use them is a deeply ingrained cause-and-effect relationship in my mind and body.
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Old 12-04-17, 09:48 AM   #28
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I went with the Snap and I'm very happy with it so far. I was on the fence about it, but after being reminded "Buy Once, Cry Once" I pulled the trigger and I'm glad I did. I've ridden more, on average, in the month since I got it, than in my average in the two months prior (as the weather was turning toward winter).

I'm also getting involved with a US-based "club" that is just starting out, and I'm likely going to be leading some climbing rides just for Clydes and Athenas. C&As are a seriously under served group on Zwift
Performance has 20% off trainers -- specifically excludes Wahoo...dammit.

Count me in for the C&A club
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Old 12-04-17, 02:53 PM   #29
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Count me in for Clyde/Athena club. My Kickr arrived today (I had to pick up at UPS myself)
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Old 12-04-17, 03:01 PM   #30
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i'm in...I am tired of getting killed on the races.
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Old 12-04-17, 03:40 PM   #31
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i'm in...I am tired of getting killed on the races.
LOL ... finished 9/13 today in a one lap race ... at least it wasn't DFL
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Old 12-04-17, 03:54 PM   #32
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LOL ... finished 9/13 today in a one lap race ... at least it wasn't DFL

I have done 2 races. Both in "E" class. First I was 27 of 32 and today I was 11/17 both races were 6.2 miles on the London loop. That 1.0-2.4 watts average power thing is crap! I saw guys doing 4.5 to 5 for the entire race in the "E" group. What a bunch of hosiers! Good thing its just for fun and to get a good workout.
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Old 12-04-17, 03:58 PM   #33
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Very true and exactly the opposite of how one would shift on the road. Training by doing things the opposite of what you should normally do is counter-productive. Sure, the ride is good and the numbers jive, but you're shifting assbackwards from how you would face ascents and descents.
That's what I meant by "trick".
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Old 12-05-17, 05:06 PM   #34
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I have done 2 races. Both in "E" class. First I was 27 of 32 and today I was 11/17 both races were 6.2 miles on the London loop. That 1.0-2.4 watts average power thing is crap! I saw guys doing 4.5 to 5 for the entire race in the "E" group. What a bunch of hosiers! Good thing its just for fun and to get a good workout.
I don't get why people do that. There is also the problem where people lie about their weight in Zwift, so for 200W output, you go faster. Some people have gone on to Strava and compared Zwift rides with IRL rides, and saw a dramatic difference for some riders .

I had a thought last night that you start going up towards the Epic KOM, you get above the snow line in the game, so if you are already bummed about it being cold and dark outdoors, that the Epic KOM might not be a good place to be. Some laps through the volcano might be better .
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Old 12-05-17, 06:56 PM   #35
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I don't get why people do that. There is also the problem where people lie about their weight in Zwift, so for 200W output, you go faster. Some people have gone on to Strava and compared Zwift rides with IRL rides, and saw a dramatic difference for some riders .

I had a thought last night that you start going up towards the Epic KOM, you get above the snow line in the game, so if you are already bummed about it being cold and dark outdoors, that the Epic KOM might not be a good place to be. Some laps through the volcano might be better .


I love the volcano circling track. Going to do the 25 laps one day
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Old 12-06-17, 06:43 AM   #36
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I love the volcano circling track. Going to do the 25 laps one day
Same here ...
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Old 12-06-17, 10:23 AM   #37
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Second race today ... another one lap deal, Watopia Flat Course ... all in all, I'm pretty pleased. 6/11, but seriously, of the top three, two were on ZwiftPower and the winner averaged 4.0 w/kg over the course. Come on ... in the D class?!?!?!

Take those three away and I'm on the podium LOL
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Old 12-06-17, 11:50 AM   #38
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It’s funny to me the folks who lie about weight in game and ride in events they are over qualified for riding in D race when they should be in A or B. SMH.
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Old 12-06-17, 12:16 PM   #39
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It’s funny to me the folks who lie about weight in game and ride in events they are over qualified for riding in D race when they should be in A or B. SMH.
Yeah ... I don't understand that at all. If your life is so bad, you have to lie and cheat in a video game, in order to just win at something, you're a very sad, sad individual.

I searched the three on the podium on Strava ... two of them appeared to be fairly accomplished road riders.

The third, didn't have Strava
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Old 12-06-17, 02:08 PM   #40
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I am honest with my weight as it does not help me to lie. Cheating myself is dumb.
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Old 12-06-17, 03:46 PM   #41
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I am honest with my weight as it does not help me to lie. Cheating myself is dumb.
Anyone who has seen how long it takes me to climb a hill would know that I am not lying about my weight .
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Old 12-06-17, 04:17 PM   #42
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Same here! On my dumb trainer I’d be going 2mph up the hills. With my hip was trying to not overdo it. Now I can change to easier gear and try to spin up hill with my smart trainer. Yesterday was so much more fun using the Kickr
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Old 12-06-17, 05:10 PM   #43
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I've had more success with TrainerRoad. You can use it (minimized view) and still be on Zwift as well. Based on your FTP test, it will tailor all workouts to your level. There's a base, build and specialty phase plan to take you from now until spring (in the US). Just pick one based on how much you can ride per week, they're labeled by Volume.

It's not just for racers either, there's century plans on there.


I used to just tool around on Zwift. Ton's of workout but no real structure. The TR plans have lots of explanations in workout text to talk you through intervals, rest, pedaling drills, etc. I needed the structure with a more clearer picture of the end goal.
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Old 12-06-17, 07:08 PM   #44
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Same here! On my dumb trainer I’d be going 2mph up the hills. With my hip was trying to not overdo it. Now I can change to easier gear and try to spin up hill with my smart trainer. Yesterday was so much more fun using the Kickr
Yes, riding Zwift with KICKR (or any smart trainer, I reckon) is definitely more fun, but I don't understand why KICKR enabled you to select an easier gear? Why couldn't you have done that on the dumb trainer? In fact, I'd say that's one of the advantages of a dumb trainer in Zwift, that you can't run out of gears, because they're self-selected. Once KICKR cranks up the resistance to match a hill grade, if you don't have low enough gearing to maintain pedal speed, you're just out of luck, but on a dumb trainer, the resistance only increases when you increase speed (either through pedal speed or gearing).
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Old 12-06-17, 07:23 PM   #45
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Yes, riding Zwift with KICKR (or any smart trainer, I reckon) is definitely more fun, but I don't understand why KICKR enabled you to select an easier gear? Why couldn't you have done that on the dumb trainer? In fact, I'd say that's one of the advantages of a dumb trainer in Zwift, that you can't run out of gears, because they're self-selected. Once KICKR cranks up the resistance to match a hill grade, if you don't have low enough gearing to maintain pedal speed, you're just out of luck, but on a dumb trainer, the resistance only increases when you increase speed (either through pedal speed or gearing).
On a dumb trainer Power is what determines speed. The trainer doesn’t change resistance so you have to change to more difficult gear and crank power up and keep cadence high to get it to reflect in game higher speed.

On smart trainer the trainer becomes more difficult to spin just as riding outside gets more difficult when you hit a hill. Just like outside you select an easier gear to allow easier spin and higher cadence.

That was my experience yesterday. I was able to maintain a higher speed uphill. Im not using erg mode. I can’t explain why it feels different but it does and allowed for better real feel.
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Old 12-06-17, 07:57 PM   #46
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This is with my Kurt Kinetic trainer with my stages power meter


Not same grade but you can see different performance by me on hill on the Kickr (HR monitor was not linking on this ride)
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Old 12-06-17, 10:38 PM   #47
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On a dumb trainer Power is what determines speed.
To be clear, speed in Zwift, when using a dumb trainer, is based on an algorithm, basically, of weight, road grade, and estimated power (or actual power if a power meter is present). There's other stuff, e.g. drafting, but basically that's it. Estimated power is derived from wheel speed given the resistance curve of a given trainer.

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The trainer doesn’t change resistance so you have to change to more difficult gear and crank power up and keep cadence high to get it to reflect in game higher speed.
Correct, but cadence does not need to be high to make power, although higher cadences make generating more power easier because the pedal torque load is lower, which is less fatiguing on leg muscles. It usually requires more cardiovascular fitness, but it's more repeatable doing lots of reps at light load than at heavier load. So, in Zwift, whether you kick up the watts using torque or rpm, the more power you make, the faster you go.

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On smart trainer the trainer becomes more difficult to spin just as riding outside gets more difficult when you hit a hill. Just like outside you select an easier gear to allow easier spin and higher cadence.
Yes, and looking at the graphs you posted, you can clearly see you were making more power at the indicated point on the smart trainer. That's why you were going faster. Also, that happened at lower RPM than what you did on the dumb trainer; maybe you felt like you were handling the effort better, but at 68rpm, you were not only spinning slower, you weren't even spinning; that's grinding it out!
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That was my experience yesterday. I was able to maintain a higher speed uphill. Im not using erg mode. I can’t explain why it feels different but it does and allowed for better real feel.
I agree a controlled trainer feels better in Zwift, but again, you went faster because you made 73% more power.
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Old 12-06-17, 11:16 PM   #48
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All I know is it felt more realistic to outdoor riding. I enjoyed riding for once on a trainer and it was less of a struggle to put the time and effort in. I don’t exactly know tge tech. Tho I did know it was more than power (I knew weight etc was factored in). My main point for ME is that it felt better and I felt I got more out of it and felt like riding up hills wasn’t completely bass ackwards with regard to shifting. My opinion.
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Old 12-07-17, 06:17 AM   #49
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All I know is it felt more realistic to outdoor riding. I enjoyed riding for once on a trainer and it was less of a struggle to put the time and effort in. I don’t exactly know tge tech. Tho I did know it was more than power (I knew weight etc was factored in). My main point for ME is that it felt better and I felt I got more out of it and felt like riding up hills wasn’t completely bass ackwards with regard to shifting. My opinion.
There is no doubt that using a smart trainer with Zwift is a more fun and immersive experience! I bet you’ll see training gains, too, since the trainer will be pushing you harder than you harder than you were willing to push yourself. Traditionally, so much of cycling is psychological— the classic “ability to suffer” but also understanding how your body feels— but having real data, especially power, really gives you better self-awarness (i.e. how you feel vs. how hard you are working) and helps you ride better. If you’re having more fun while doing it, too, well...that’s a psychological battle axe!

I mean, isn’t it interesting and awesome that, with the graphs you posted, that you self-selected to compare a climb that was steeper and where you put out significantly more power, as being comparable and easier than, a less steep, less intense effort?! Really, I think that’s impressive, and that it augers well for your winter training. Keep crushin’ it!!
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Old 12-08-17, 05:46 PM   #50
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Since my trainer is not interactive (only connects speed/cadence and HRM), I've been doing the structured workouts trying to maximize cadence for the Wattage specified. Difficult, but not impossible, to participate in group rides where my trainer's resistance isn't controlled. Maybe I'm missing something. I'm still looking for some "how tos" in using Zwift

I'm pricing out some more connected trainers. Recommendations welcome.
Looks like cycleops is doing a zero percent financing thing: https://getsetup.zwift.com/products/26?utm_source=facebook_newsfeed&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=usa_android_affinity_dth_magnus_a
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