Piperflyer

HerrKaLeun

Do the ride that is more fun (scenic, better traffic etc.). You will do that one more often naturally.

ripkin

Hey all,

I posted something similar over in enduro forum b/c they were talking about keto, but was wondering if any of you have experience with trying keto, then starting to ride daily, and actually gaining weight and getting more carb cravings? I would imagine this has to do with exercise, muscle repair, and demand for glycogen on rides (my commute, which I started doing on keto when I was at my lowest weight, is 22 miles round trip).

So anyway, I got lazy/unmotivated and got off keto really around Thanksgiving, and I’m trying to find my way back into weight loss. I wound up 18-20 lbs heavier than my weight when I started commuting (238/240 -> 258) and I really need to find the motivation to get back on track.

I was doing a combo of intermittent fasting and and keto meals in the evening, but I wasn’t able to sustain that with two 11 mile bike rides 4 times per week. Does anyone have any ideas about how to stay strictly keto, while commuting by bike, and not feeling like your body is dragging on the rides? Maybe I shouldn’t have been pushing so hard (lighter spinning, not worrying about commute time/speed?). Not sure.

Would love to hear anyone’s experiences with anything similar....!

Thanks in advance.

HerrKaLeun

I'm trying to Keto. Problem is I cheat too much. I went from 220 to 175 pounds using "regular" healthy diet but plateaued.
Did you do dirty Keto (unhealthy food, like pre-made food fatty food) or do you use whole and clean food?

I can ride 50+ km in the morning and have my first meal after the ride. But i was able to do that before Keto. 22 miles isn't a huge caloric use.

One advice on intermittent fasting is to not start it before you are ready and the body is used to burning fat (via Ketones). This will take some weeks to get to that point. In addition, only eat when you are hungry. Keep in mind your body will play tricks on your psyche to make you eat before you are hungry. Have good healthy Keto food with you all the time so you are not forced to buy some junk once you get hungry. A clock is not a good meter to eat :-)
When you get hungry, eat. But figure out what are healthy foods that are yummy first. Don't buy that powder and s#$t they sell as Keto products. Also stay away from too much protein. If you eat dairy/meat you get a lot of protein and protein gets converted to glucose.

After cheating it takes me 2-3 days of eating a lot of Keto because I feel hungry. then on day 3 i eat less and am less hungry and can sustain longer fasting times. that way i know my body started to convert to burn fat. I try to stay under 40-50g net carbs (they say 20g is ideal, but with the amount of veggies I eat to get my potassium etc. this is hard to accomplish).

My food is:
- veggies salad with olive oil, nuts and sunflwoer seeds and blue feta cheese (has more fat and fewer proteins than regular feta). Has zucchini, cauliflower, broccoli, radish, and kale. Trust me, the olive oil, cheese, nuts and seeds make this extremely delicious. My salad dressing is some seeded mustard mixed with lemon concentrate and olive oil.
- sour cream with some kelp, chia seeds, flax seeds and unsweetened shredded coconut
- avocado
- occasionally brussel sprouts or asparagus cooked and smothered in butter
- varying meats
- scrambled eggs with bacon fried with coconut oil.
- some cheese
- hamburger meat in peppers with tomato sauce (made from actual tomatoes)
- canned herring or mackerel if I get hungry at work and didn't bring enough
- also have unsalted nuts at work for snacks if needed (better than desperately going to the vending machine)

I cut out fruits, milk and other things as they contain relatively much sugar.

daoswald

Don't try a specialized diet. It's too hard to sustain.

Ride your 22 miles per day, 4x/week, and do a long ride on weekends of 30-60 miles (more as you get into shape and find the time). Burn an extra 700 to 1100 calories every day, and more during your long ride. This will equate to at least 4300 more calories burned per week than you burn when not riding. One pound is about 3500 un-replaced calories. So you will lose about 1.25 pounds per week if you were stable before and do not increase your consumption.

Of course it's not reasonable to suggest that you do not increase your consumption, so ride a little more, eat just a little more, and lose a pound a week. Continue losing a pound a week for six months -- that's 24 pounds. Continue for a year. That's nearly 50 pounds. Don't expect overnight changes. Don't step onto the scale every day. Weigh in every week. Whenever you feel like a snack, go for some cucumbers or something that isn't high in calories. Sure, it's not as fun. Have unsweetended almond milk with your cereal. Skip the candy. Skip the doritos. Eat at meal time, nearly as much as you want. Don't eat between meals.

Specialty diets are hard to maintain. It's much easier to maintain a general reduction in caloric intake, and a general increase in exercise level. It took your whole life to get to 250. It will take some time to get below 200. But if you do it slowly, and with a lifestyle change, you'll get there and stay there.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I've lost over 30 pounds this year (33) in about seven months. And it's staying off. I've layered in gym time now that the weather has turned cooler, and while my weight loss has tapered off, I'm sustaining the weight and still trading fat for muscle mass, getting leaner by the week. You can do it too. I was a 50 year old guy with and extra 33 pounds to get rid of, and a sedentary job. Now I'm nearly 51, at an ideal body weight, and putting in 8-10 hours per week either riding outside or doing cardio and weights in a gym, every week. You can do that too.

ripkin

Thanks for the pep talk. I think it’s a matter of staying mindful of what I’m putting in, and what I’m burning. I think your suggestion about an extra 700-1100 could work. I think this should be doable if I hop on the treadmill every night in addition to the commute.

Do you have an organized way of keeping track of calories/macros you’re eating, or just eat when you’re hungry and make sure as much as possible are whole foods?

ripkin

Awesome — love the menu, and how the whole foods come together to make the dishes. Do you make “fat bombs” for rides or higher carb keto bars or something like that to keep energy up, then go back to eating keto in between rides?

kingston 

It's not easy, but it sure is simple. I lost 50 pounds with pretty much the same method you described and have kept it off for 8 years so far.

HerrKaLeun

Before keto i took fruits on longer (over 75km) rides to eat. Not sure if I still would need food since Keto makes your body use fat directly (and even slim people have enough fat)
People over-estimate the energy required to ride a bike. If you are a TdF pro, yes then you burn thousands of calories, but not us mere mortals.

As long as I still have fat to lose, I don't just eat plain fat (with no other nutrients) since my plan is to have my body use body fat.

ripkin

Yeah, I really liked intermittent fasting while it worked for me (300 —> 240ish). Once I hit around 240 it got really hard to keep up for some reason—definitely not a lack of body fat. I do wonder what it was. Maybe a hormonal thing, feedback mechanism from adipose tissue changes, who knows.

But for a while I really could have a cup of coffee with heavy cream at 7 AM, and honestly not eat again until I got home from work at around 8 PM or so. Ate a keto meal that filled me, and woke up the next day to do it all over again. It was *awesome* for a while.

The bike commute changed my ability to do that—started having major cravings during the day, eating too many nuts at work, eating too much low carb ice cream at home, etc, etc. Before I knew it, I went from 237ish to 258. Although after 2 days of keto again + one day of a round trip commute, I’m at 250, so I guess 8 lbs was fluid expansion from insulin and probably higher volume of food over the post-Thanksgiving time period where I totally fell off the keto wagon. Still 13 lbs gained when you totally change your lifestyle trying to be healthy (commuting by bike) was an annoying pill to swallow for this mere mortal!

KraneXL

Yep, maybe with the exception of pro endurance athletes.Well we all still need to take in some fat since it is a vital nutrient with a daily requirement. Could you survive without it? Probably, but only if you were sedentary, and it would be extremely unhealthy.

HerrKaLeun

I tried the fat in coffee, but it didn't fill me. As long as I need to lose weight, i avoid the "fat only" things that don't have nutrients. Like i use coconut oil for my bacon and scrambled eggs since that fills me, but don't use it in coffee. i also avoid all non-essentials, like ice cream. I assume any ice cream (low or high fat) will be total chemistry crap.

Athletes train for years and many also take illegal enhancing substances. a normal rider puts out 100-200W, then coasts, then 100w again. A TdF rider constantly puts out 500+W. So what a pro athlete consumes has not much every day relevance for normal people. Like comparing a formula 1 car to a Camry.

As a general rule I try to eat food as close as a human could eat in nature and avoid long ingredient lists. Yes, now we have access to foods from all continents and at any time, and milk turns into sour cream, and we cook the meat... but I try to stay as close as possible.
Or in other words, if it doesn't go bad within a week, I don't eat it. Because if fungi and bacteria don't want to eat it, why should I?

squirtdad

use myfitness pal it also links with garmin devices like the vivoactive HR. Track what you eat and what you exercise using the combo.

ripkin

Good thoughts; I wish I could keep up with it. I might try it again this time—probably will encourage me not to go around grazing on everything. Especially if I have to whip out my phone 10 times a day and log every morsel going into my belly.

HerrKaLeun

Pro tip: enter the food BEFORE you intend to eat it. Seeing what it does to you may prevent you from eating that cookie :-)
Also keep in mind all the trackers ESTIMATE. Unless you are in a lab, any estimate how many calories you burn are just that, an estimate. People (and apps) often overestimate how many calories they burn.

superdex

raria -- another vote for longer rides from the house. If you can, do them fasted; i.e. in the morning before you eat breakfast. 2hrs of Z2 in a fasted state is rock star for fat burning adaptations.

KraneXL

Full disclosure: I have a Christmas day ride tradition. However, I do take Thanksgiving off because its all about eating lying around and eating some more.

DrIsotope

Opposite! I've never once managed to get free time to ride on Xmas day. Maybe this year, as the kids are both teens, and cashed in Xmas already-- the boy wanted to join Snowboard Club at school, and the girl opted for Anime Expo. Looks like I won't be up wrapping presents until all hours this year. Which is definitely bittersweet.

jsigone

FrenchFit 

From a runner's perspective -- LSD rides build fitness and are great at burning fat to a point but once you're acclimated you'll get diminishing returns. Intervals take over from there, burning more carbs, but one long ride/run a week is still a good practice to make sure the foundation doesn't slip away.

colnago62

HerrKaLeun

I have been doing Keto for a week so far (under 20g net carb). so not much glycogen stored in my body. Last meal yesterday was 7 pm and I didn't eat before this morning's ride of 3.5 hours over 42 km inc. some single tracks with my fatbike (622m elevation gain). There is not much coasting with a fatbike, so it is more a workout than with my hybrid. I also didn't eat until over an hour after I was back home (wasn't even really hungry). I don't know what zone 3 is, or why I would care, i just ride to enjoy :-). It was 22°F when i left and in summer I usually can last longer.

I'm not trying to argue over who is right or proof any lab test, I just can tell how it works for me and I can easily do long rides without eating. I also started 16/8 intermittent fasting. That also helped me to last longer without food. YMMV.

For a professional athlete everything is different, sure. But as normal riders we don't need to do what a TdF rider needs to consider - that would be like treating a Corolla like a Formula 1 car.

Manny66 

Long Slow Riding or High intensity, for Weight Loss???

If I knew the answer to that one I'd be a Millionaire, Im keeping an eye on this Thread because I wanna find out for myself too .

So far some good responses.

Rollfast

The answer is ride, ride, ride. And watch what you eat, ask your physician if medications tend to make it harder to lose weight...

The path is multi-faceted, one single thing doesn't do it all.

KraneXL

HITT are more intense but extremely effective in weight loss. Not only do you get the benefits during exercise, but due to higher energy state your body continues to burn fat long after the exercise is complete.