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-   -   My LBS rocks - and 700c rim suggestions? (

bdinger 04-21-07 01:31 PM

My LBS rocks - and 700c rim suggestions?
I detailed some annoyances with my new Trek 7.3FX in another thread, but today it really torqued me. 30 miles and two busted spokes. One they replaced while I was waiting, then I get another 5 miles and the other one busts. Talk about frustrating!

So they have offered to warranty out the stock Bontrager rear rim and hand-build me a new one. They will either use another Camino with some DT spokes, or a tougher Bontrager rim. Obviously, my question is, am I better off just getting another rim and having them lace it up? I'm pretty sure they are fine with it - they are applying the warranty credit towards parts and giving me free labor on the "new" wheel. Basically my only cost if they supply the rim are spokes, and only those because I chose to upgrade. Otherwise there would be 0 charge.

I would love to build a 36h wheel while I'm at it, but I just ordered a Brooks and.. well.. to avoid suddenly living alone I'm going to keep costs down on this one. :D Additionally the head mechanic said that if I manage to break a 32h wheel he builds, he'll buy it from me.

So my question is, if you were building up a new 700c 32h wheel for toughness, what rim would you use? Someone mentioned the Salsa Delgado XC rim, and I've also heard good thing about Mavic's Open line - supposedly the new Open Sport is a tank. Heavier than the pro, but supposedly just a beast.

Whaddya think?

Ziemas 04-21-07 01:39 PM

For toughness I'd use a Mavic A719 or the cheaper A319, which are touring rims.

Also keep in mind that you are breaking spokes, not rims, so high quality, double butted spokes should be an even higher priority than a fancy rim. I really like Sapim Race spokes, but it is only a personal preference.

bdinger 04-21-07 02:24 PM

Yeah, you echo exactly what the mechanic said. So I told him I'm fine paying for spokes, but if I am I want the toughest. He recommended.. something.. but I don't remember exactly what they are :). They are DT, aren't most expensive, but he said that's the only one he'll use on touring or tandems. He said the rim was probably fine, but as long as we're doing it that he'd recommend just replacing it. And now, as long as we're into it.. might as well do it right, you know?

I'll check out the A719 or A319.

diff_lock2 04-21-07 02:33 PM

2.3mm spokes. I heard DH wheels normally use them.

I have 2 wheels that the lbs built for me, after i busted a spoke going up hill, both use 2.3mm. NP yet.

(51) 04-23-07 04:25 AM

Does it have the Matrix 750 Rims on it? My first spoke popped at 2,000 miles. Since they rebuilt it with DT spokes I haven't had a problem (+3000 more miles). I don't think it is the rims fault.

bdinger 04-23-07 07:59 AM

It has the Camino Sport, which apparently are "pretty stout" rims, but since it's popped two and got a bit of abuse (I tightened up others to get the ~10m to the LBS, and the ~10m home) they just want to replace the rim. I don't blame 'em, and since they are giving the labor + whatever trek gives them for the rim it's fine with me.

After much thought, just so I can completely avoid this in the future I think I'm going to have them build a 36h Mavic or Salsa Delgado with a XT hub. Spoke problems are annoying enough to make it definitely worth it :)

andymac 04-23-07 11:18 AM

Where did the spokes break? Most wheels on fully built bikes are machine built, this does not necessarily equate to poorly built but it can, my Kona Dew Deluxe was proof of that.
In my case two spokes broke inside the nipples. When I took the tire and strip off to remove the nipples that were rattling around inside my rim I discovered something interesting. On the drive side several of the spokes were too long so the top of the spoke protruded above the top of the nipple. I believe wheel truing machines screw the nipple in from the top to true the wheel so when the machine was screwing the nipples in where the spokes were too long it would have bumped up against the top of the spoke. On these spokes the top of the nipple was mangled a bit and the top of the spoke flattened. In order to have flattened the top of the spoke the machine must be applying a fair bit of downward pressure. I think this resulted in these spokes being weakened. I had my bike shop replace the two broken ones and three others that looked suspect. Since then the bike has another 2000 miles on it with no problems.

bdinger 04-23-07 12:35 PM

Both spokes broke off right at the hub. In fact I think it might have even been the same damn spoke! Insanity..

andymac 04-23-07 01:00 PM

The wacky wheel builder at the shop that I frequent told me that when a couple of spokes break you need to loosen them all off and re-tension when you replace the spokes. Otherwise you have to put a lot of tension on the new spoke(s) in order to pull everything back into shape and as a result you have weakened your new spoke(s).
This makes some sense to me as the alignment of all of the other spokes is going to change when one breaks. It also makes sense that the spokes adjacent to the one the broke are going to have suffered the most so they would be the next most likely to break.

bdinger 04-23-07 01:51 PM

Yeah.. they said something along those lines. And what stinks is that they are hesitant to use parts I get somewhere else (JensonUSA) for the build, so I'm just going to take them on their word that they are building up a "bombproof" 32h wheel. If it breaks, then I'll definitely be PISSED. :)

JOHN J 04-23-07 02:21 PM


I had mine built with 40 spoke rear and 36 spoke fornt. They've worked out great!!!


late 04-23-07 02:30 PM

if you want a quick, cheap way out of this mess, have your LBS order this...

The spokes might need adjusting after you ride for a while (watch for wobbling with any new wheel)
but that is a lot of wheel for the money.

Primetime75 04-23-07 03:39 PM

I use A719, 32h f&r, ultegra hubs.

Been riding them for about a year with no problems, and I am 3 bills.

ang1sgt 04-23-07 06:25 PM

As someone mentioned, most wheels are machine built and as such, variations from wheel to wheel and batch to batch can occur. The best thing that a LHS can do IF they have one is to have their wheel builder build you a rim. Not all shops can do this right and you should be careful. Careful spoke prep and the right feel is what it can be all about. I can build a wheel, and have built many, but I still don't have the feel that some of these guys do.

I hope the new rims work out for you.


bdinger 04-24-07 02:11 PM

Well they called back with the final build, Sun Rhyno Lite with a Deore hub, 32h in a 3-cross pattern and DT Swiss Alpine spokes. And the price, well, they are doing it for half of what I would have paid for parts alone. I'm pretty confident in this build, as when he called back I told him that at this point price isn't an object, I just want TOUGH.

I'm pretty excited to get my bike back, as the Brooks B17 should be here tomorrow. A new bike that will be even.. well... MORE new! :D

andymac 04-24-07 04:36 PM

Rhyno Lites are pretty tough rims, I have used them on a number of bikes and they held up well.
The one thing to consider though is that they can be a bear to get some tires onto as the tire bead does not sit very far down into the wheel. Having a set on my commuter for a year with some Nokian slicks converted me from plastic to metal tire levers in my emergency tool kit.

FlatFender 04-24-07 06:43 PM

I have a 700c rhynolite on my commuter. I love it.
That should be a killer combo with the Rhynolite, and the DT AlpineIII spokes.
May be a little heavy, but hey, were big dudes, it dosent matter....

bdinger 04-24-07 07:46 PM

FlatFender - That's one thing I told the LBS, that I didn't care about cost or weight, I just don't want to have this happen again. I was very impressed when they came back with a very cost-reasonable solution. Them selling the parts to me at their cost (cheaper than what I could get online), giving me a credit, and giving me the build for nothing.. yeah. They've earned my continued business for a VERY long time. I'm REALLY looking forward to this new build.

andymac - I've heard that as well, thanks for the tip! I'll make sure to pick up a new set of levers for the Trek when I pick it up at the shop :).

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