-Devil-

thanks for the link, yeah i might can handle that ... going out after work to map out some roads around my house and see if they are ones i feel safe on (big enough shoulder, etc... disadvantage of living in the country near a gravel pit.... lotta traffic of big trucks but mostly limited to daytime)

was already planning on building a second bike, looks like i may direct the build more twards a hybrid setup .... or normal mtb and take my current one and put some more road worthy tires on it.

on the F11 you have, is it all that hard to use? ... going to pick up either that or the F6 before the week is over ... mostly to monitor what i am hitting, but also to be able to go back and see the average and max ...

lil brown bat

You're still trying to run before you've learned to crawl. What you need most of all isn't to "do some extended rides" or anything like that; what you need is to create a workout that is systematic and progressive. Systematic means focused on the activities that will most efficiently help you achieve your fitness goal; progressive means that you define what "progress" means and make modest gains in that direction on a regular basis. Going into the gym and sitting on a stationary bike for 30 minutes 3-4 days a week is preferable to sitting on the couch, but the improvements you get from it will taper off pretty quickly; likewise, crashing around in the woods until your heart is ready to explode is a lot more likely to result in injury than fitness improvement. Take a big step back; find a basic systematic and progressive program for developing aerobic fitness using a bicycle; stick with it for six solid weeks, without throwing in a lot of extra stuff (just stick to basics); and at the end of that time, reevaluate where you are and where you want to go next.

jrafael

I have both polar (chest strap) and this one (finger sensor) and the finger sensor its my favourite.

bdinger

^^^^^ +10000

Seriously, you have to progress, you can't just jump into it and try to do the Tour De France next month. Last year I had a very spotty approach to cycling that wasn't crazy, but it lacked any sort of consistency. I progressed as a cyclist, sure, but not a lot.

This year I began the year with a pretty clear plan. First I shot for 100 mile weeks, after being off the bike on a daily basis for 3 months. The first two weeks were pretty difficult and almost discouraging, but I made it through it. Then I did 125 for a month. When I got my LHT, I shot for 150 and did it for a month. Now in July I'm at 200/week and things are great. I've progressed leaps and bounds this year, and my weight loss is also progressing at a absolutely predictable steady rate. Doing the consistent gain of mileage, by far, is the smartest thing I've done. The second smartest is that I took off the heart rate monitor and cyclocomputer, then told myself I'm not going to kill myself on the bike anymore. Guess what? I've gotten faster - way faster - in the two months since.

Reasonable goals and consistency are the only way to do it. Stop killing yourself and just build up a baseline.

-Devil-

that makes sense .. but i am still lost ... not really with what you say .. but in my search ... i have asked at local places before for help with a program that is focused twards bike riding ... and every place just tells me to 'get out and ride' ... even at the gym i go to ... when i bring that question up to a trainer .. they just point at the stationary bike ...

so would you happen to have a link or two that explains a basic program? i am sure there are links on this site, but so far in my browsing and such i haven't turned up any.

st0ut

why dont you ride you bike to the gym.
I love it as i dont have to do cardio on a boring staionary bike.


I ride to the Y and lift 3 daya a week and swim 2 days a week. as part of my excersice.

late

Start hiking. It will get you into the mountains and it will build legs and hips.
Then do some backpacking. Nothing like walking up a steep slope for hours carrying a 25 pound pack to build legs.

Since you go to a gym anyway, you could also lift some weights while you're there.
Deadlifts, squats, hyperextensions, swiss ball crunches. They all help.

I also think you need to learn more about cycling. Roadies spend months base training. This is riding at a light to medium effort to build a fitness base. As much as anything else, I think you need base training.

I'd kill to be your age and able to do some hiking again.

-Devil-

the gym i go to is close to 15 miles from my house ... in my current condition i don't think i could make it there and still work out .. then bike back home afterwards ...

sadly i live in an area that is 90% flat with no mountains within about 8 to 9 hours of me ...

the 'base training' as you put it ... is mostly what i am realizing i do need ... i shouldn't have just replaced my time at the gym with the bike riding and expected results ... (was doing combo of 30 min on a stationary, with 30 to 45 min weight lifting with high reps but lower weight ... well lower for what i can lift still higher then some)

wiggles

The F11 is great. I believe the only huge differences between the F6 and F11 are the F11 has a more comfortable chest strap (important if you're going to be wearing it under underarmor, or a tight jersey), and it has a built in fitness test which estimates your level of fitness based your calculated VO2max (the maximum amount of O2 that can be carried in your bloodstream). Plus it has workout plans and everything it generates for you based on the results of the fitness tests.

Like I said, I love mine. Now, if you're just looking to get something that monitor your HR and calories burnt, by all means go for the F6. I'm a geek, and like my little doodads

Also, when you take a systematic approach to training, try to never increase more than 10% in a single week. You may feel like you can do it - but your body may not agree when you do it regularly. Its better to err on the side of caution - injuries suck. And if you get hurt, you can kiss most of your endurance training goodbye

lil brown bat

My main source is the book "Conditioning for Outdoor Fitness. The reason why I use that book is because when I started, my main goal was to be more fit so that I could do activities like hiking, skiing, etc. The first section is all about aerobic fitness, anaerobic fitness, exercise physiology, principles of creating a training program, etc. The second section is about anatomy (different areas of the body, strengthening same, common issues/injuries and prevention), and the third section talks specifically about how to develop functional fitness for different outdoor activities. I think it's a good book for anyone, even if your ultimate goal isn't fitness for outdoor activities, because its explanation of principles is so good and so thorough.

I go back and forth on this...I think what makes up a "good guide" depends on how thoroughly you want to understand what you're doing, and where you're going. The better your understanding, the more suited you are to guide your own progress -- and unless you're independently wealthy and can work with a personal trainer on a weekly-or-better basis, ultimately you are going to have to be your own guide. The amount of information can be a bit overwhelming, though.

-Devil-

i stopped by the LBS that does organized road rides in my town and talked with the owner for a bit ... going to see about tagging along on some of their beginner rides ...

also talked with one of the trainers at the gym i go to. though he doesn't know much about bikes ... he has offered to help me come up with a weekly routine that will cover everything .. in an 'aerobic' fashion (still not sure what that means) ... with steps on how i should progress it and increase what i do as the weeks go by ...

the only other issue i am having ... is convincing myself to do the gym thing .. when it is such a nice day outside and i could be riding ...

if i am understanding the basics of this ... i could do road riding ... for 3 days and gym for 3 ... and maybe 1 mtb ride a week ... but that would have me going 7 a week .. and no day off .. which i am figuring i should have ... or could do the gym 2 a week .. road 3 ... one day off .. and 1 mtb day ...

lil brown bat

If you read that book I suggested, you'll know all you ever wanted about aerobic vs. anaerobic activity. The short version is that aerobic activity is fueled with blood glucose and is lower intensity, while anaerobic activity is peak effort sprint-type activity, fueled by ATP, which in turn is produced from fat and glucose that is already within the cell. Anaerobic activity can burn a lot of calories, it's true, but if you don't already have a base of aerobic fitness, you're going to be very limited in what you can do at anaerobic levels, you'll need much longer recovery time between sprints (thus largely defeating the purpose), and you're a lot more likely to get hurt.

So then go riding. What's the issue?

Why are you making this so complex? Go do aerobic exercise. Pick your preferred form and just do it. You really don't need a finely tuned program at this point, just do it. Pick a time of day and do it at that time every day. If you want to take a day off once a week, that's okay; if you don't feel the need to, then don't. Increase the duration of what you're doing by 10% a week. Do that for about six weeks, then it's time to think about maybe changing in other ways. Crawl, then walk, then run.

-Devil-

i will be looking for that book today at the local book store ...

i am making it complex, because right now it seems to me that is what it is .. till i can read enough to understand more ...

wiggles

Its a bit intimidating at first, but the basics are:
1) Eat healthy
2) Do aerobic exercise

1 really is a little off topic, basically avoid processed foods, and stick with stuff you either make yourself or simple things like fruits, veggies, and homecooked meals. Thats what worked for me. This is fuel for your metabolism - your heart can't be pumping blood if it doesn't have energy to power it. You body will burn whatever is easiest for it to burn to get energy - whether it be fat, carbs, glycogen, muscle tissue, or your own internal organs. Thats why you wanna eat right.

2 is the real meat of the subject. If you want to do nothing but cycle, then go out and cycle to your hearts content. Your body will adjust rapidly and you'll quickly build up your ability. However, don't expect to be able to run a marathon just because you can do quintuple century before breakfast. Your body will build up aerobic ability, but if you only use one type of exercise you'll start to see limited health benefits because your body will start to tailor itself towards cycling.

Thats why i like cross training - cycling day, jogging day, then a day of airsoft/paingball/sprints/jumprope/whatever - there are tons of things that work the cardiovascular system. It all uses cardio, but it switches it up so your body can't adjust to just one. You'll see slower results in your abilities with each, but you'll see a much better benefit towards your overall endurance and cardio. Unlike weight training, you can do cardio every day so go nuts. Just because its a jogging day doesn't mean you can't cycle, and vice versa.

Weight training won't help very much for what you're looking for with one catch. See, when you build muscle, you build new blood vessels along with it. That means more blood is able to reach muscle tissue, which translates to more oxygen getting to the cells that need it. It also increases the capacity that current blood vessels can hold. Worth it? Up to you. It will help you shape your body however you want it, and you can weight train for either toning (light weights with many reps), or muscle building (heavy weights with very few reps).

Hope that didn't muddy things up even further. There are a ton of options and you really can pick which route you want to take.

-Devil-

the eat healthy part i understand, been doing that since jan of this year ... its the aerobic part that confuses me ...

but how you put it, makes it a lot more clear basically aerobic = cardio ? right? ... if so... then doh! ...

thanks for breaking it down like that ... =)

lil brown bat

Understanding is great -- I think if you really understand how exercise physiology works and how calories get burned, you'll be a lot less likely to be fooled into some exercise or diet fad, or to lie to yourself about how healthy your lifestyle really is. Another great book, BTW, is "Eat Drink and Be Healthy" by Walter Willett -- focused on nutrition, it complements the exercise book nicely. It's focused on cutting through the lies and half-truths that we're told about nutrition, and boiling it down to a relatively few general recommendations that have good empirical support. Each chapter handles a different aspect of diet and nutrition -- for example, chapter three ("Healthy Weight") explains the body mass index and how ranges of healthy weight are determined; chapter four talks about different types of fats and gives you the whole skinny on trans, saturated, polyunsaturated, monounsaturated, etc. -- and then provides a few simple recommendations.

Here's the thing about simple, though -- "simple" and "easy" are two different things. Important to remember that too.

wiggles

Yup! Cardio just means that it stresses/exercises your heart. You stress your heart by using muscles over long enough periods of time that the heart has to speed up to give them the oxygen they need to keep going

-Devil-

they didn't have the book so prob will order it online, i have prob spent 200$ so far in books alone just to understand nutrition and such ... i still don't fully apply it but each month i am adjusting to the changes even more...

for the exercise part of it ... or cardio ... i think now i have a basic grasp of what everyone was trying to say ... but getting the book to have a place to go to for help and questions ...

got me a HRM, to start seeing where i am at in my range ... and to use it to pace myself as i start doing more time on the bike on the roads ... will prob go between that, and occasionally at the gym on the treadmill or elipitical if the weather is to bad, or i had to work to late to get on the bike (gym is 24/7)

since bike riding is my main interest. i will keep doing it a majority of the time .. but will try to find other stuff to mix in (maybe vollyball with the in-laws or other stuff at the gym .. will have to just pay attention to my options and go from there) ...

-Devil-

started keeping a chart for my HR and such and just set the baseline tonight at the gym ... posting it up for if it shows anything to those who know more ...

21 min on stationary bike 122 avg heart rate 19 min was above 111
21 min on treadmill 128 avg heart rate 20 min was above 111

from what i am figuring ... my max heart rate is about 185 ... i should be shooting for a min of 111 for warming up and such ... then trying to stay around 130 to 147 (in the 70% to 80% range) for a duration .. then going back down for a cool down... is that the basics of it? ...

on each of the above peices, i never really was 'out of breath' .... but was winded... i felt as though i could have gone longer on each, but starting with a number i know i can do, and going to stick with it for at least a week before changing it ...

Tom Stormcrowe

Sounds like a plan to me.

10 Wheels

It is very SIMPLE:
You don't need the gym time period.
You don't need a heart monitor.

Just ride and keep drinking while you ride.

Monday 80 miles Temps 100* on the bike.
Tuesday 86 miles Temps on the bike 104*

JUSY RIDE THE BIKE>........

wiggles

You don't need a heart rate monitor, but you will never find a more useful piece of equipment if you're trying to lose weight. Estimating calories burnt and guessing whether or not you're in your target heart rate zone is not the most easy thing to do.

-Devil-

till i used it at the gym last night .. i always thought i was at a higher HR then i actually was .. which explains why i am not loosing like i think i would ... but it also showed me that i need to work at upping the legnth and intensity of what i can sustain ... just to get up into the 70% to 80% range with my HR ...

wiggles

Did you end up getting the f6?

-Devil-

i ended up going with a nike triax C8 ... they let me try on the chest straps and the nike one was better fitting for me .. plus they had them 25% off so only paid about 78$ after tax for it.