seenoweevil

Ok. I have a standard crankset(52/39) on my Raleigh with an 8 speed cassette (13-27). I'm struggling with hills anyway, and was looking at changing to a compact crankset. Would changing the cassette to an 8 speed mountain bike cassette like an 11 or 12/32 be enough of a boost on the hills (cassettes seem to be pretty cheap)or should I go ahead and spend the cash and get a good compact crankset or change the little ring to a 34? I don't have the tools to pull the crank and change out the small ring, so I'd have to get it done at the LBS.

Mr. Beanz

A tripe with a 30 small ring (triple) and a 27 rear cog would give you a combo of 30 gear inches.

A 39 (doulbe) front ring and a 32 would give you a combo of 33 gear inches.

3 gear inches isn't much of a difference but to go to the 32, you'd prolly need to switch out your rear deraileeur to a mtb derailleur. I believe the doubles only handle up to 27,...maybe 29 is you push the limits.

Check out a gear chart, helps to see what combos you're dealing with.

CliftonGK1

Option A: Keep 27t cassette, install 34/50 compact crank
- Lowest gear = 33.7 inches. (5 inches lower than current)
- Crank can cost as little as $100 (or less) if it's a square taper BB.
- With shop labour to adjust derailleur, etc. Probably a $130 switch.

Option B: Keep 39/52 crank, install wide range cassette
- Lowest gear = 32.6 inches. (6.1 inches lower than current)
- Most road derailleurs can't handle 32t, so you also need to replace the rear derailleur and get a longer chain.
- Cassette ~$40. (SRAM PG870) Rear Derailleur ~$50 (Deore) New chain $25 (PC870)
- ~$130 in parts, plus shop labour, you're looking at closer to a $175 swap.

If I were you, I'd go with a compact crank (I have a Sugino XD700 from Velo-Orange, $110, stocks with a 34/48 chainring set). Buy a square taper crank puller, (you can get them for as little as $3.00 for a cheap one that works just fine) and do the swap on your own. Changing a crank is a pretty simple job.

You can't put a 34t ring on your current 39/52 crank. 39t rings are 130mm bcd, and 34t rings are 110mm.

cyccommute 

However a 39/34 would give a 30" gear. Although this would mean a new rear derailer and cassette, you'd probably have to change the rear derailer for a triple anyway and you'd need a new crank, front derailer and a new left hand shifter (for the triple).

A compact crank would give a 33" gear with a 27 tooth low, a 28" with a 32 tooth low and a 26" gear with a 34 tooth low. seenowevil would still need a new crank and a new derailer if he went with the 32 or 34. The shift pattern for an 11-34 with a compact would be horrible however...worse than a closer ratio cassette which is bad enough It would have huge jumps between the rings and not much overlap.

DieselDan

Just HTFU, much cheaper.

seenoweevil

DD - if you saw my red, sweaty face and heard me puffing like a broke down steam train yesterday, you'd probably have called 911! The 20 extra pounds I've picked up this winter are kickin' my poor butt HARD!
Maybe I am a little premature and need to ride more and HTFU some before I pull the trigger on a compact.

I sure do appreciate all the info though guys. In the mean time I'll be looking at compact cranks and pullers, definitely seems the way to go. I'm a little put off by the differences in BB's I guess, not sure what will fit other than mine is english 68mm. It came with a Shimano BB-6500, 109.5mm spindle, but I don't know what else will go in there or what is in it now. Haven't read much about them.

DieselDan

Just 20 pounds? Work on your technique and you'll never need to change anything.

CliftonGK1

While the HTFU approach is certainly the least expensive method, unless you're riding in a pro peloton there's no shame in rolling a compact crankset. I can't name many riders in my rando club who use a standard double. Most are using compact (34 inner and 46 or 48 outer), super-compact (28 or 30 inner, and 44 or 46 outer, like old TA Touring cranks), or a triple. Quite a few, like me, couple a 34/48 compact to an 11-32 cassette for an even lower bail-out gear.
With a 48/11 top end, it's unlikely you'll ever "spin out" that gear. At 40mph, you'll barely touch 120rpm. I've never found myself wishing for a taller top end gear, but I've often been happy for that 34/32 combo. I wouldn't want to grind my way up 4 miles of 12% grade on a 39/27 mid-way through a 400k.

DieselDan

For the money you looking to spend on a new crank or cassette/deraileur, you could buy a trainer or rollers and HTFU all winter. I did.

seenoweevil

THERE'S the solution! Just ride over here on the weekends and pull me up these hills! SWEEET! You will, won't cha?

seenoweevil

Yessir, I'm shopping already. I appreciate the input. Like I said, I'm pretty ignorant about cranks and BB's and was hoping there'd be a little cheaper(and less painful than the HTFU!) way around the compact.

Mr. Beanz

Get whatever your little heart desires, it's all about moving the pedals around. When you decide to HTFU, you'll get out there and do some riding in the mtns with us!

Rollers!

Heck, I'll even make a video of you! Talk about HTFU, try carrying the extra weight of this recorder up the mountains!

seenoweevil

Yup, someday I'd like that! Thanks for the invite. I know I'll get in better shape pretty quick, just disgusted at how far down I've let myself get over the wet cold months. But even in better shape, I bet I'll be glad I got the compact.
Oh, Beanz.....I wouldn't want you to have to lug that heavy thing around just to break the lens getting a video of me in spandex! Ha!

cyccommute 

CliftonGK1, your 'compact' crank isn't what is currently the vogue when it comes to compacts. The most common compacts are 50/34 which give really crappy shift patterns...more like 2 10 speeds rather than the more progressive you'd find on a regular double (52/39 or 52/40). They are for guys who need triples but don't want to look like bad in front of 'the guys'. You know that triples are for those people who won't 'just HTFU' don't you?

seenoweevil: 48/34 is actually a much better compact double than the 50/34. The shift pattern doesn't require a double...or triple...shift on the back when you change ranges on the front. You may lose some top end (117 gear inches vs 122 gi) but even 117 gi (48/11) is higher than most bikes had 15 years ago. However, that would require a change in crank.

A mountain bike rear derailer can be had for around $20 (not a great derailer but cheap). A much better one can be found for $40 although that one is a reverse shifting derailer. No problem with it other than just getting used to the way it shifts.

A new cassette and a new derailer would be the simplest fix with the least amount of fiddling. Changing a cassette is dead simple and changing a derailer is almost as easy.

Changing a crank is more complicated. CliftonGK1's price list above is a good estimate of the cost, however, I think he may have lowballed the crank cost. With labor and no new parts, I'd put the cost as just about equal or the crank a little higher (more futzing to get everything adjusted). If other parts are needed...bottom bracket, chain, or cables...the costs go up quickly.

Mr. Beanz

Oh, this one is the "CPCS" model!.....Clyde proof/CLyde specific!

CliftonGK1

I got hooked on the 34/48 because the Cross Check complete came stock with a 36/48 and I swapped out the 36 for a 34 before changing to the wider span cassette out back.
When I looked to replace that FSA Vero crank, I found the Sugino XD700 and Sugino Alpina; both 34/48 out of the box.



A new cassette and a new derailer would be the simplest fix with the least amount of fiddling. Changing a cassette is dead simple and changing a derailer is almost as easy.

I did go on the low end of cranksets.
The FSA Vero is about $80, but no longer stocks a 48 outer, it's the crummy 34/50 so you'd end up dropping another $25 on a 48t ring.
The Sugino XD500 and XD700 are in the $90 - $110 range, both are 34/48, and between the two I can't tell that there's any difference. Similarly, I don't know that there's a functional difference between the XD700 ($110) and the Sugino Alpina ($175). The XD cranks and rings are satin polished finish while the Alpina components are mirror polished.
The big cost comes in if you aren't using square taper bottom brackets, then you have to shell out the money for an integrated crank. An Ultegra 34/50 comes in around $400!

seenoweevil

I actually have a new Deore rear derailer I bought for my Fisher(turned out I didn't need it). Not sure if it's an 8 speed. Kinda hate to take the 105 off though, i love how it shifts after the friction shifters on the Miyata and the SRAM on the Fisher. Dang, I thought this might be easy!

Mr. Beanz

.................and you'd be surprised at how many riders have that silly mentality. I have a standard and a triple, no problems on either bike but I use the triple only cause it's my beater bike. Avoid the 3 tallest cogs while in the granny ring and boom, you're equal to a standard double as far as gear inches.

I've done some training rides with some highly decorated riders (in their mind ayways, I'd wait for them at the top of a climb and they'd say, "you beat me up the climb riding a triple?".....I'm not sure what it is that makes riders think triples are for sissies! Now the fact that you had a superlite bike with super climbing wheels and you can't keep with me while I ride a tank makes them the sissy!

I've neve and don't care to have a compact, nothing against them. Some say they shift better than triples but I've seen a ton of lousy sounding/shifitng compacts around. I htink it's more about proper adjustment. I'll keep my triple even if I do ride like a sissy and can't HTFU!

CliftonGK1

7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 speed derailleurs all operate inside the same space; it all has to do with cog/spacer/chain widths and how much crap they're cramming into that space. A Deore derailleur can be set to work across an 8 speed cassette by fiddling with the limit screws.

I use a Deore long cage on D-A bar end shifters set to full friction mode on my brevet bike. The shifting response is plenty snappy, plus I don't have to worry about things doing out of adjustment since it's all friction mode.

cyccommute 

The derailer doesn't care about how many gears are on your cassette. It's a robot and just does what the shifter tells it to do. It will work with your shifters just fine.

As for a short vs long cage derailer, I can't honestly tell the difference. An indexed system is just click and it will shift. All of my long cage derailers shift very quickly.

seenoweevil

Cool. I may try to change out cassettes this weekend......then again, if it's dry out, I may just ride! It's been in the 60's all week, but raining!

Pinyon

I love my 50/34, and highly recommend it. I know that a lot of people prefer triples, but I don't. I spend almost all of my time on the big ring, and prefer the quiet reliability and...simplicity of a double.

My bike has a 50/34 on the front, and a 11-28 on the rear. Like I said, I spend a vast majority of my time on the big front ring, and only use the smallest two gears in the rear when the slope goes above 4% - 5%. I only use the small chainring on the front when I'm on a hill over 8% slope, or when I'm on a single climb that takes more than 20-30 minutes to top. It also does not hurt my knees if my cadence is anywhere north of 50 rpm.

As for the simplicity? I'm just an old-school rider, that does not like to worry about cross-chaining issues that you often get with triples. I have my compact double set up so that with my big chainring, I can use all gears on the rear cog without making noise on the front derailure. I do get chain-rub in the stiffest two rear gears when I'm on the smaller chainring, but it is VERY rare that I use that configuration. I only use the smaller front cog for big hills, and automatically switch to the big chaingring if I need anything stiffer after the first couple of gears.

So...Its not that I want people to think that I'm a He-Man that does not need a granny gear at all. I just live on the big chainring, and don't like triples.

But like I said, I'm more of an old-school rider in that respect. I've had my commuter bike for over 22 years, and am used to only having 6 gears on the rear. I often find myself shifting two gears at-a-time on my more recent roadbike that has 9 gears in the rear.

youcoming

[Beanz quote]I've done some training rides with some highly decorated riders (in their mind ayways, I'd wait for them at the top of a climb and they'd say, "you beat me up the climb riding a triple?".....I'm not sure what it is that makes riders think triples are for sissies!

Triples are not for sissies they are for those who ride the big stuff and don't want to kill their knees, were I live we have no mountains and the hardest climb in my area is a 40km stretch that averages 3% grade with jumps to 9% we do have some pretty high grades but still no mountains, I have a compact 50-34 with 11-25 and a standard 53-39 also with 11-25. I actually climb better on the standard but it might have something to do with the bike. As for rollers the toughest part of them is you never get into a rythym, I started riding with a guy last yer who spent years in B.C. and lived in the mountains he actually finds our riding harder as the speed combined with unsteady heartbeat gets him more than the steady groove one gets in the mountains. At the same time though he states it's a real killer when you've been climbing 5% for an hour and then hit over 15%. To the OP I would go with a compact or just loose weight and train better.

Peter_C

Pardon me?

HTFU = what?

CliftonGK1

Harden
The
F___
Up

It's a common response when someone complains about hills, rain, cold, snow, tornadoes, tsunamis, Godzilla, snipers, or anything else plaguing them on their ride. There's always somebody who claims to have it worse and tells them to HTFU.

There's a guy in my rando club who tells people, "If I wanted to listen to somebody whine, I could have stayed home with my kids."