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knee pain?

Old 03-08-10, 06:31 PM
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knee pain?

Hi everyone,

I'm not exactly a clydesdale but I'm pretty close. My weight hovers between around 185-195 although I'd like to get down to around 150. I'm not very tall (5'8") and I'm 37 years old.

I started biking last year and up until about a month ago, I was getting in decent shape. I was able to ride about 40 miles or so with only minimal stops (red light, etc.). I was just shy of 200 when I started biking (around 198 pounds or so) and got down to as low as about 185 a few months ago. I'm back up to around 190+ now. I generally commute to work about 2-3 days/wk (35 miles round trip to work) and another 40 miles on the weekend.

However, last month I ran my local 5k. I had not run in about 5 years prior to this. In order to sort of train for this event, I got off the bike and went on the treadmills a few times/wk. The actual run was on asphalt and I did ok (nothing good but made it, etc.).

I took about 3 weeks off the bike to train for the run. About a week after the run, I got back on my bike again as usual but this time at around mile 25, I felt a sharp pain in my left knee. It could not support my weight and even if I eased off my knee (so I did all of the work with my right leg), just the round motion was enough to really put a strain on my knee.

When this happens, I stop and rest for a few minutes until the pain goes away. I can then ride again for about 10 minutes but then the pain comes right back. It's a sharp pain that doesn't seem localized anywhere (just comes from my knee).

After my ride, my legs feel fine.

I am able to walk and run without a problem but maybe it has to do with the rotation on the bike or something that is causing this. When it's bad, I am gliding along on my bike but I can't even stand up it's so bad. However, the only time that this pain comes up is when I'm on my bike and it's only after awhile. I rode this past Friday and my knee started hurting at mile 12.

Has anyone experienced this? I will probably go see my doctor but just wanted to see if it was a common injury, etc.

RVD.
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Old 03-08-10, 06:35 PM
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Your seat may be too High or too Low.
I had that happen to me when a raised the seat too high.
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Old 03-08-10, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
Your seat may be too High or too Low.
I had that happen to me when a raised the seat too high.
+1 to that and I think the usual guidance is that pain in the back of the knee is seat to high, pain in the front is seat to low. Yours sounds kinda sudden and severe though.. might not be a bad idea to have a Dr. take a looky.
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Old 03-08-10, 07:04 PM
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thanks! the seat thing is interesting. when i raise the seat higher, it felt more comfortable to stretch my legs out a little bit so maybe that's it.

this is on my mountain bike (if that matters). i haven't ridden my road bike in awhile but maybe i'll try that and see what happens.
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Old 03-08-10, 07:46 PM
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That sounds like something more sever that can't be fixed by a saddle adjustment. See a sports medicine physician.
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Old 03-08-10, 09:05 PM
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You probably did yourself damage during the run, and then finished the job on the ride. Absolutely go see a doc post-haste.
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Old 03-08-10, 09:38 PM
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Not a DR, but 8 knee surgeries over 30yrs, and now a replacement.

You never *heard* or felt a 'pop' during the run? Shoes weren't loose, no stumble at all?

I'd say stay OFF the BIKE completely til you see an orthopod! I best *guess* (and it is just a guess) is you have torn some cartiliedge (sp), and either have a 'floatie' or a 'flappy' that is binding in muscle tissue during rotation.

Any swelling at all? Does the pained knee feel warmer than the other knee to anyone (best to test when in pain) - heat means more blood to the area = damage. Minor tears *may* heal on their own = meaning pain goes away - as any cart. tear does not *heal*.

To test if it is muscle or not - simple, stand on one foot for a while, pain should come if muscle, or do a *slight* knee bend one-footed (only like 10-20 degrees). With a floatie/flappy the pain comes under compression (meaning as you go to and past 90 degrees - so a higher seat can help) When the seat is TOO high your knee is going past zero into negitive numbers which also pulls the hamstring causing pain in the back of the knee.

Point is, if one week of rest does not show MARKED pain relief, it's NOT muscle, and you need to see the DR (A GP is a great DR to have, but this needs an Orthopod, period!

No need to freak over this either - if my *guess* is correct, a minor 'scope surgery would be the fix - out-patient, long weekend, no stitches, no cast, easy peasy...

Ligiment (sp) damage is normally to one side or the other (like ACL damage, or miniscis(sp) ) - pain is at ONE point, any weight bearing adds to pain - more heat to one side or the other.

Last point - you did not speak of *any* prior issues, so I am ignoring an "OA flare-up" caused by the run - Osteoarthritis - but it would not be new to you to be this bad.

Main point is, time has not helped, which *usually* means damage, so see the knee DR and be safe. A floatie/flappy can create more damage if not trimmed/removed.
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Old 03-09-10, 09:14 AM
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I think the more important question is Who is the best Orthopedist in your area? Then go see them. Internet medical advise is like going to my mother's bridge party everyone has the same problem but there are 20 different solutions.

I had knee problems 8 years ago and saw a GP with a specialty in sports medicine, he looked at my knee and said, "Arthritis, not much we can do but flush it out." I when to a Orthopedic specialist later because I was incapable of running without lot of pain. Before I saw the doctor, he had me do an x-ray, within an hour he had looked at the X-ray and was looking at my knee. Showed me the X-ray and a shadow on the film. That afternoon I was having an MRI. He found a bone spur in my knee the size of a postage stamp. I had it removed and had my knee flushed and I have been riding ever since. I really believe in specialists.

I hope it works out for you.
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Old 03-09-10, 01:53 PM
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I would suggest a bike fit. The seat height weighs heavy on it. My knees didn't stop hurting until I went clipless. I needed arch support and my feet are locked into position. No problems at all since then.
For what you are describing now, I would get a DR checkout.
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Old 03-09-10, 02:37 PM
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thanks for the good advice. looks like i'll be making an appointment with a ortho soon.

i didn't feel any warmth or anything like that. i feel a slightly popping sometimes (i think) but it might be my imagination. in any case it's not severe or obvious.

but either way i'll be seeing my doc. thanks.

RVD.
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Old 03-09-10, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cyclist2000
I think the more important question is Who is the best Orthopedist in your area? Then go see them. Internet medical advise is like going to my mother's bridge party everyone has the same problem but there are 20 different solutions.

I had knee problems 8 years ago and saw a GP with a specialty in sports medicine, he looked at my knee and said, "Arthritis, not much we can do but flush it out." I when to a Orthopedic specialist later because I was incapable of running without lot of pain. Before I saw the doctor, he had me do an x-ray, within an hour he had looked at the X-ray and was looking at my knee. Showed me the X-ray and a shadow on the film. That afternoon I was having an MRI. He found a bone spur in my knee the size of a postage stamp. I had it removed and had my knee flushed and I have been riding ever since. I really believe in specialists.

I hope it works out for you.
+2

My point exactly - if you care, you go
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Old 03-09-10, 10:31 PM
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I didn't see anyone else mention this - maybe because it's considered common knowledge - but to possibly help you and anyone else who reads this thread looking for help please keep in mind the importance of maintaining the proper rpm as much as possible when biking... I think 70-90 rpm is considered best for knee health... the slower your legs go round, the more stress you're putting on your knees....
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Old 03-11-10, 04:17 PM
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I'm not a doctor, but I have been seen in a white lab coat on television.

Just my $0.02, but I agree with Peter C and Cyclist 2000; you need to go see a knee specialist at an Orthopedic clinic. Sharp pain is not indicative of an overuse injury (tendonitis, etc.), and if you had torn your meniscus, you would have a "locking" sensation; you knee would get to a certain position and then not move, for anything. You didn't mention any of those things, so I'm thinking something else is going on.

How old are the shoes you ran in? Reason being, like bike tires, they wear out. The average collegiate distance runner can get about 350 to 450 miles out of a pair of running shoes; clydes like us are closer to 250. If your shoes are significantly worn out, your gate could have been effected enough to set you up for knee pain.

Good luck, and keep us posted.
D
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Old 03-11-10, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by atcfoody
I'm not a doctor, but I have been seen in a white lab coat on television.

Just my $0.02, but I agree with Peter C and Cyclist 2000; you need to go see a knee specialist at an Orthopedic clinic. Sharp pain is not indicative of an overuse injury (tendonitis, etc.), and if you had torn your meniscus, you would have a "locking" sensation; you knee would get to a certain position and then not move, for anything. You didn't mention any of those things, so I'm thinking something else is going on.

How old are the shoes you ran in? Reason being, like bike tires, they wear out. The average collegiate distance runner can get about 350 to 450 miles out of a pair of running shoes; clydes like us are closer to 250. If your shoes are significantly worn out, your gate could have been effected enough to set you up for knee pain.

Good luck, and keep us posted.
D
To be clear, if the meniscus is badly damaged, the *locking* sensation is there. but I for one have had meniscus damage multiple times, and it was more of a weakening of the knee, and was painful going from 90 grees to straight - but never locked on me

/shrug - in any event, when speaking bout knees, dull pain is good (muscle pull), but sharp pain is bad!

Just an FYI - the reverse is true with Heart issues (so says the heart DR) - he can car less bout any sharp chest pains, but the dull ones mean it's hospital time!

Please share with us what you learn!
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Old 03-16-10, 05:31 PM
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I spoke to a friend who is an orthopedic surgeon. He took a quick look at it and basically told me to just rest it and go back to biking slowly. He told me to start with less miles and slowly get back up while my muscle builds up. He felt that it is muscle strain on my patella. He did give me a few pieces of advice:

1) if i see a doctor and the doctor immediately suggests surgery, run away. he'd love to do surgery (he is an ortho surgeon after all and that's how he gets paid) but it's a last resort so the doc should have me to various exercise and other things first.

2) he feels that it's nothing serious so i should just take it slow and exercise it and build muscle.

But to be honest, I think his advice is worth what I paid for it...nothing.

I've rested it now for over a week (since I started this thread) and my knee has felt fine. I'm going to try biking to work tomorrow and we'll see how it goes. If I have any pain again, I'm making a call to another orthopedic surgeon.

RVD.
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Old 03-16-10, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by RVD72
He felt that it is muscle strain on my patella.

Sounds like my problem. Me and my insurance company paid a lot of money to find out the fancy name for it- "patellar subluxation". And not much else...

I had a serious relapse of it this spring caused by some telemark ski kneepads that seem to have helped force my kneecap out of alignment. My highly *not* recommended treatment plan: https://www.bialas.org/blog/2010/03/a...g-part-ii.html

I usually have to exercise through the pain to build the strength back up and get everything back in line. A physical therapist can give you some good suggestions for an exercise plan.

45 miles of commuting today and I seem to be doing fine...

But hey, I fix computers for a living- not knees. So don't pay any attention to my advice, it's probably really bad for you.
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Old 03-17-10, 12:34 PM
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A short note - am the guy with the new knee (8 surgeries, 30+years of knee issues)

PT is always a good thing, painful, but a good thing. My concern is simply why do you *suddenly* need PT or exercises, when you really didn't do anything too out of norm.

Got any X-Rays yet?
Surgery is normally never first, unless something is 'torn'.
A cortizone (sp) shot can relieve pain while allowing you time to build the joint stronger - but again, why must you do this now??

I maintain that knee pain that does NOT go away with rest, needs to be looked into. mis-use/over-use, *can* be a reason, but normally for someone OUT of shape...not like you sound...

Just my thoughts
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Old 03-23-10, 12:25 AM
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Well, I'm crossing my fingers but I think I'm ok now.

I rested for about a week and tried again and took it easy and there was no pain. I rode a few more times after that and went on a longer ride on my road bike and I was back to normal (or so it seems).

I'm not pushing it too hard but overall I haven't had that sharp pain come back again. I'll continue to work out my legs to build more muscle and I won't be running on pavement again for awhile.

Thanks for your help everyone. I for one and happy to be back in the saddle again...

RVD.
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