kevin_stevens

Oh, I imagine that the cleat eventually rotated enough to release, but that wasn't the action, the action was to rip my foot up before the @#$@# bike fell over. I'm highly confident I'm not the first new cleat user (with new pedals and new cleats) to employ this tactic.

KeS

CraigB

You state these as unequivocal facts, Nightshade, without offering any kind of supporting data, but when some of us say they surely can't be true, you believe it's incumbent upon us to provide evidence of that?

I'm all for offering one's opinion in public forums, and I do it myself frequently, but I always make sure it's stated as an opinion, unless I have specific evidence that demonstrates it to be fact. And I rarely make up statistics.

I freely admit that clipping in can lead to falls. Only a fool would debate that, even though it may have never happened to them personally (I've never fallen over because I was clipped in). But that doesn't logically lead to your next premise which is you will be injured when it happens. You might, you might not. Is the pedal the cause of the injury? Depending on the nature of the injury, no one can say with absolute certainty. As I said in response to one of your posts in another section, not riding is the only way to be absolutely safe from bicycle riding injuries.

Ratzinger

Ya, I told you I'd be happy to debate if you made another thread. This seems rude to me. But alas we've derailled...
After you have proved your ability to ignore all the rebuttals you'd gotten so far and then assert that no one had offered anything other than "I disagree", I have good reason to doubt that any attempt at a discussion would be worthless. Feel free to prove me wrong, in another thread. Many people who disagree with you are open and would like to hear your reasoning. So far you've offered none.

CACycling

There either is research/data/etc. supporting your position or there isn't. Seems it should be easier for you to provide research/data/etc. that supports your claim than for us to try and prove that research/data/etc. doesn't exist.

Ratzinger

Next question:

is there a God?

irwin7638

Your argument is false. Over many years,I have fallen many times while clipped in with either toe-clips or SPD cleats and suffered no injuries.
It is safer to ride without cleats or clips, but there's nothing absolute about it.

Marc

snowman40

Because my troll senses are tingling....

And to be helpful to the OP, I have Speedplay Light Action. I recommend these, I can rip my foot off the pedal if I need to, your results may vary. I've got some kick ass guads, according to my wife.

Nightshade

I'm right since people DO get injured or killed due to being clipped in. I've spent the better part of the afternoon trying to find examples but found hard data that only agrees that clipless is dangerous but will get better when people lean how to use them so there really is no hard injury data gathered at all. The sad truth is cyclist are just not important enough to gather data on how they get injured or killed in any great numbers.

Even you say I'm wrong but then turn around and site examples of your own falls due to clipless pedals. You were lucky that your injury was no more than a scrape or two but you must admit they could have been much, much worse.

Clipless to me ,to site an example, is like carrying a loaded gun with the safety off.

RollCNY

I like guns. But statistically they are bad news with bicycles. Loaded cyclists should not be off safety.

And, as earlier, I still like my Look graphites. Nice wide load area for a mountain shoe, never had hot spots. Don't confuse them with Keos

CACycling

OK, where's the hard data?

Ratzinger

Nightshade, you could be right. Being in the minority doesn't make you wrong necessarily. But you have to understand that you haven't given us one little bit that helps us to understand the way that you're thinking.

If you find a study, that's great. I doubt that it exists, but prove me wrong.

I also doubt that it was a study that made you come to this conclusion. It was probably either a negative personal experience (or of someone you know) or a baseless assumption. If it was a negative experience, genuinely I'm sorry for that. But it doesn't mean that everyone is in imminent danger.

Please help us understand why this isn't a baseless assumption and we'll take your conclusion seriously.

Obviously, people who are learning how to use clipless should be cautious, just like people learning to ride a bike. Just like a new cyclist needs to learn the rules of the road, how to keep a bike in good order, how to watch out for traffic, or else cycling is dangerous. With the right knowledge, a person can cycle thousands upon thousands ok KMs a year with little risk.

Same goes for clipless pedals and toe clips. When you learn how to use them, they're not dangerous. There is little risk, I would even say little to NO additional risk. (but of course that's based on personal experience and those of my friends).

Nightshade

ummm........we still speak English here.......right?

I've made my point as best as I know how. As to data I also said that I could find no hard data one way or the other since I don't believe it's being collected.

Ratzinger

Then we have no idea what leads you to believe why clipless pedals are dangerous, and no idea why to think such a thing except someone on the internet said so. I have read your posts. I do speak some english. Please refer to my last post.

[edit after reading post below this: if you don't have hard date, at least give us your 'soft data'. Help us understand why you're so adamantly anti-clipless and toe-clip. you've given us nothing but your conclusion]

If you have nothing further at this point, in terms of explaining your conclusion, I'll step out of the conversation.

But I will conclude for those who are considering clipless pedals- try them for yourself. Learn, at first, in a safe environment (not in traffic (just like learning to cycle)). The use of these pedals becomes second nature and it's great for cycling. Woo! Clip out as you're slowing down and you'll have no problem. It's very simply once you get the hang of it.

Ask in in the road forum, fixed gear, touring, classic forums etc...and you'll find that cyclist love these kinds of pedals and use them safely. (for thousands and hundreds of thousands of KMs (or miles if you prefer (no exaggeration)).

Just like learning to ride a bike safely with practice, clipless pedals and toe-clipts are easily used safely.

If you try them and feel uncomfortable, no problem. Switch to your old pedals. You do what is best for you and happy cycling!

CraigB

Even though you can't find any hard data to support your assertion, you still state it as a fact ("I'm right since people DO get injured or killed due to being clipped in.")?

IAmCosmo

I cited examples and hard evidence disproving what you say.

Find me ONE example of a cyclist being killed because they used clipless pedals. Just one. Shouldn't be that hard.

I can spend 15 seconds on Google and find tons of hard data about cyclists being hit by cars, cyclists colliding with pedestrians, etc. Seems to me with everything that is out there on the internet, data like you are looking for should be easy to find if it exists.

In less than 5 seconds of searching (this was the top result) I found this article: https://road.cc/content/news/31059-ir...-inquest-hears

True, the cyclist was wearing clipless pedals, but he was also not wearing a helmet, and he was hit by a car. While coincidental, I do not believe that the pedals had anything to do with him. I believe it was the two ton car slamming into him. I fail to see where he would have lived if he was riding on platform pedals.

I have been using clipless pedals for years (I suspect you have never tried them at all). While they hold my feet firmly in regards to vertical forces, small horizontal forces will unclip me. How do I know? I actually tested it this afternoon. I went out in my front yard and fell 20 times. 10 on each side of the bike (yes, I was bored). Every time I unclipped before my bike hit the ground. Is that a scientific test? No, far from it. Did I look like a fool to the people driving up and down my street? Of course. But, you know what? It didn't kill me. It didn't injure me.

sstorkel

Using this same logic, I will also submit that the moon is actually made of cheese. I could find no hard data one way or the other, because I believe that nobody has bothered to collect data on the cheesiness of the moon. But trust me: despite having a few rocks and some dust on the surface, it's mostly cheese!

jyossarian

Guys, stop feeding the troll. Or at least stop using logic since trolls are impervious to it. Instead, use witty, razor sharp barbs and retorts. It's more entertaining.

ChrisO

Better yet, post a link to something somewhere that talks about a cyclist being killed because they were clipped in.

ChrisO

It's hard to stop, it's so fun! (.....) <<That's the space where I'm supposed to come up with some witty and razor-barbed, ridiculously broad and generalized comment (that is also stated as an absolute fact) about trolls; but I'm in that post ride cool down phase and my brain is pretty much in idle...

ill.clyde

And if so, does he ride clipless? I mean, if he's God, all knowing, all seeing, etc ... he should be able to ride clipless because there's NO chance of him being killed, yes?

Better still ... WWJR? Now THERE'S a question that really needs debate!

Nightshade's rants are probably the most absurd thing I've read online in quite some time.

Ratzinger

It just makes me sad that people are being turned off of trying clipless for no good reason.

It takes some learning, just like riding a bike. But it's possible to use them well and safely. And they are wonderful and fun too!

Perhaps Nightshade knows of a particular danger associated with clipless pedals. We could talk about it and perhaps find a solution to eliminate risk for those who are at risk of this danger. Unfortunately we have no idea what he's talking about.

Ratzinger

WWJR?

Jesus would ride a steel bike from the 80s. He would find a good deal on a decent frame. He would them build it up with spare and 2nd hand parts that he had lying around or found at the bike coop. He would be casually into buying a selling bikes just for the fun of fixing them up and making them beautiful. At the end of the season he'll give away his extra crap to people who need it. He might take a break from cycling in the winter, after all, he lives in Canada.

No doubt he'd ride toe clips which would accomodate his sandals. I don't see him putting cleats on the sandals, too cumbersome when you need to hop off your ride for some healing or preaching to the masses. He'd probably also have one of those "ride along" things on the back of his bike for all the little children who suffer to come unto him.

ill.clyde

If Jesus rode a fixie that would explain why he was crucified ...

Ratzinger

Would he use his powers to turn water into half-strength gatorate? It's not that hard to mix though it might save him some time.

ill.clyde

Forget the manna ... Powerbars from heaven! Turning water into GU. Feeding 5,000 cyclists with five fig bars and bananas.