DARKSCOPE001

Hello all. I am looking into getting some new wheels for my bike. Namely some stronger ones that will stay true longer. Currently I weight about 210 and my bike has mavic cxp22 (32hole) laced up to no name hubs, If memory serves me right the company that made them is called "joytech" and these hubs are basicly just to get you rolling. granted I have about 3000 miles on them.

My first year of riding when I did 1500 miles I had to get them trued halfway through the year. now this year I gave a wack at it myself and got it ok. But it sure seems like these things will not hold there true no matter what. Im not even hard on rims my rides are usually fast and flat with few potholes. A few seems where bridges meet roads and some chip-seal and the occasional steep climb.

I have been looking at a few different options and wanted to know what you guys think.

Option1: in my mind the better choice
Mavic cxp33 laced to shimano 105 hubs hand built https://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com...s/prod_67.html

Or some mavic open pros laced up to ultegras
https://www.pricepoint.com/detail/120...p=365%20SHIUL1

Both seem like great wheel sets. I have heard great things from both. But I have heard that the cxp33 are tougher and are generally more durable especially for heavy riders. Im not super woried about weight but any weight savings is always a plus especially rolling mass. But like I said at 200 pounds weight off rider is more advantageous than weight off bike.

So what do you guys think? Also is it the wheels fault it comes out of true or is that just normal?

Thanks
Sean Scott

RichardGlover

It's more about how well they are built than the components that they're built with.

I'd rather ride a pair of Sunringle CR-18s on Tiagra hubs and DB14 spokes built up by Peter White than a pair of high end mavic/velocity/whatever rims with Ultegra hubs built by a machine.

gunner65

I have that set from pricepoint on my casserole they seem very well made for the price strong as hell and out of the box they were very true. I do not have a ton of miles on them yet but they are still true.

At your weight 210 you really arent taxing the wheels that much. You are the same weight as I am and my road bike has bontrager race lite wheels with 20 spokes maybe less? I have several thousand miles on that bike and have never had to true those wheels. I was concerned at first but until they prove otherwise I would say that they support my weight just fine.

DARKSCOPE001

Thanks guys. yea I was looking at some mavic pre builts but idk how good those are. and I have heard some people say aksiums are great and others say avoid them like the plague. Also been looking at some ksyrium. But really liking the reviews I have been seeing on well built cxp33.

Because I havent had a ton of problems with these wheels but it seems like every 100 miles or so im truing them back up. Last time I trued them myself quickly with the brakes as a reference and they were good. Went on two rides and they arent bad. Front is still ok rear is out probably 1-2mm per side. So I cant run my brake blocks as tight as I usually like.

Also im worried that when I true them myself in the garage i might be running them to lose. I grabbed adjacent pairs of spokes and squeezed when I was done and they were firm probably not guitar string tight or anything but still had some give in them. So im not sure if they are to lose or just right without a spoke tensiometer. Either way no wheel should have to be trued this much IMO. I had my bike shop even do it for me and they are better but still coming out to fast.

Thanks
Sean Scott.

Btw I thought wheels from bike wheel warehouse were hand built? Granted its more than the first set I was looking at but still if its going to go alot further without maintinance i would be happy.

Drew Eckhardt 

Wheels should stay true between when you build them and when you bend the rims in crashes or on road obstacles (I got 12-14 years out of my last front rim before that happened, although the brake surfaces were getting a little concave and it was nearing the end of its life anyways). You might even make it to rim replacement from worn out brake tracks before that happens.

That often doesn't happen from machine built wheels because the machine can't maintain a fast and profitable production rate when configured for high tension.

If you make the tension as even as it can be within each side of the rear wheel and in the front wheel (a wheel can be straight with a loose spoke between two tight spokes on the same side or vise-versa but the loose spoke is less likely to have enough tension to keep the nipple from turning at which point the wheel becomes untrue) with the wheels remaining true and increase tension to 110kgf (measured with a Park tension meter, the only model that's affordable for the home mechanic) front and rear drive-side (the non drive side gets set to whatever it takes to center the wheel) they'll stay true indefinitely unless bent rims preclude having the wheel straight with sufficient tension in all spokes. Compromising on roundness to get higher tension on loose spokes from a small bend or stiff spot is OK here - small blips are insignificant compared to what's going on at the road surface and tire manufacturing tolerances.

You also need to avoid spoke windup so the wheel doesn't go out of true as they unwind. Lubricate spoke threads and rim sockets with a drop of oil before tensioning to reduce it (2.0/1.5mm spokes can still wind up a full quarter turn) along with squeals from the rim sockets and your chances of rounding off a nipple (I use anti-seize and still have 15 year old nipples on their third rim). I like a tape flag on a representative spoke in each group (front, rear drive side, rear non-drive side) starting at the valve hole (windup varies from negligible to over 1/4 turn before the spoke get tighter). Putting the axle on the ground atop a wood block (to prevent denting the floor) and pushing on opposite sides of the wheel all the way around can remove existing windup (flip the wheel when you've pushed on all spokes).

You want hand built wheels. Deeper extrusions than the Open Pros are harder to bend on road obstacles and not a bad idea.

It's the wheels.

CliftonGK1

The hub concern when building a wheel is more about the quality of the races and bearings than anything. Cheap made hubs roll rough; low grade bearings and low tolerance machining on the races.

That's not to say that "cheap" (inexpensive) hubs are all poorly made, though. I have a few pairs of IRO track hubs that I paid $40/pair and they're very well made. I mated them to $15 IRO house brand rims with DT spokes and I beat the snot out of one pair on my daily commute, and another pair is my CX racing pair.

As for the Mavic rims - I'd get the cxp33 before the Open Pro. I've seen too many Open Pro failures to trust that rim any more. (I think) in thinning out the rim wall or changing the alloy composition (whatever they did) to lighten the weight, Mavic reduced the strength on that rim. Running higher tensions as required by heavier riders has a greater tendency to pull the eyelet out along with an accompanying section of the rim. I've seen it with 3 of these rims, but I've never seen a pull-through failure with a cxp33.

DARKSCOPE001

yea im really leaning towards a set of built cxp33. I might see if my lbs can even do it for me but idk. I wouldn't mind learning to build wheels myself but I think it might be a bit more work than im up for. Are wheels from bike wheel warehouse ok? Because the next set of wheels i get for this bike I kind of want to be my main wheelset and I can use my current cxp22 for backups and emergencies or whatnot.

But on a side note what I would like to do is get the park spoke tensionmeter and go through and bring them up to a higher tension (I believe drew said 100kgf) and im willing to bet they arent that high but idk ill check. Also just as a side note. to lube the nipples (man that sounds weird) could I use penetrating oil like kroil or something? so that I dont have to remove the spoke to apply anti-sieze

Oh and about my hubs. yes they are cheep cheep hubs. but to tell you the truth they have been pretty good. not rough and roll ok. I cant complain but this is my first road bike so I have no idea what a "good" hub feels or acts like.

Thanks
Sean Scott

Drew Eckhardt 

110kgf front and rear drive side is a good number.

Sure. One drop of 3-in-1 oil on the spoke threads and another in the nipple socket works for existing wheels when the nipples aren't frozen. Clean the brake tracks with a solvent like mineral spirits when you're done.

Use the anti-seize when you build a new wheel or replace the rim.

DARKSCOPE001

Wow so to add more confusion to my pile. I just realized that the wheelset I posted was the cxp33 and ultegra build. Also I was choosing the cxp33 because i thought it was eyeleted. So I started looking at some other wheels just to take a look. I found some of the BWW inhouse brands for quite a little less laced up to some 105 hubs. Its the pure aero. Does anyone have any knowledge of these wheels? or would it be better to spend the money and get the mavics? Because i really just want some wheels that will work for the next 10k miles or more without needing trued ever 100 miles.

Thanks
Sean Scott

ill.clyde

I looked at the Pures, and was tempted ... but reviews I'd read were somewhat spotty.

I finally settled on a set of Fulcrum Racing 7s. I read so many good reviews on them, including many from fellow clydes. Just awaiting their arrival now

RichardGlover

Right.

So, here's my analysis.

CXP33's, Shimano 105 hubs, DB14 spokes from BWW: $330 + shipping


Peter White seems to charge quite a bit for Mavic CXP33s - $105 for each CXP33, where you can probably find the rims cheaper elsewhere. (price updates on his web site are spotty, so actual cost may be different).

Same rims/spokes, from Peter White:

CXP33s: $451
Velocity Deep-Vs: $387
CXP22s: $341


If I had to choose, I'd get the Deep-Vs from Peter White, and get them in the color I wanted, instead of being restricted to Silver or Black Mavics.

Drew Eckhardt 

You want hand-built wheels. A big brand name makes that unlikely (it cuts into profits).

You want rims that are readily available for replacement. People with proprietary wheels have ponied up $200 rebuild fees and waited moonths to get their wheels back. When I bend a Mavic Open Pro there's a replacement waiting on my door step in a couple days and I'm out just $70. With Mavic wanting to focus on pre-built wheels you're probably better off with a Velocity of some sort. Velocity and Kinlin rims also give you a _lot_ more color options. The BWW Pure Aero looks like a Kinlin XR-300 which is easy to source (for about $40 with shipping running about $15) but you'd want to confirm that and you might not like how tight tires mount (Velox rim tape is right out).

You want 32 spokes. While fewer spokes don't necessarily produce problems, it's nice when you can finish your ride with a slight bend that unloads a spoke. The Pure Aeros are 24/28.

achoo

As long as you're looking at BWW, these ain't light but they'll last forever:

https://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com.../prod_161.html

I like DT Swiss rims a lot more than I like Mavic rims.

socalrider

+1 on the DT Swiss.. If you decide to go mavic, choose the cxp33, the new style open pros just have too many problems and you will find yourself replacing the rim when they crack at the eyelets 1 year down the line..

The rr585 only comes in 32 hole max, they are very similar spec to the Velocity Deep V but with a little nicer finish to them.

DARKSCOPE001

I do like the look of those dt swiss ones. But I im really leaning towards the cxp33. I like mavic idk why i just have a preference for them. I did a little more research on the cxp33. Looks like it is in fact eyeletted, hmph i didnt think you could eyelet deep rims but oh well. Im mostly likeing the cxp33 over the dtswiss because of price but if there is a serious problem or defect anyone could think of with cxp33's might go for the swiss because I want something that will last a good long time.

Ok second question now. I really wouldnt mind learning more about wheel truing/ building and I have looked up a few videos and resources on the subject and so far it doesent look super hard. I would really like to be able to true my own wheels but really would like to learn to build them too. I watched this video on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-1n--L8Pjs

I liked this video because he has a good overview of wheel truing and makes a good reference to his resources. I have some basic woodworking tools and it looks like the stand he made is easy to make and looks like it rivals higher end wheel stands.

So here is my question. when I get my new wheelset would it be a bad idea to try and build my own wheels using my existing cxp22 and some decent hubs and spokes. My lbs has a class on wheel truing and I would not mind giving it a shot. Anyone had any thoughts on this?

Thanks
Sean Scott

DARKSCOPE001

Ok guys not to bring up a dead post but it seems like im going to be buying a new wheelset sooner rather than later. While chaining a flat on my current wheels I rotated over the wheels while holding the skewer and the part that sits in the dropout. Front still spins fine. Got to the rear. felt like the bearings were built with plebes rather than bearings. I took the rear hub apart. It uses cartridge bearings, but there is no mfr stamped on the hub at all. These are the stock wheels that came with my 2008 iron horse victory 3.0 so I guess im only assuming that they are in house hubs.

I poped out the non drive side bearing, it felt fine. the drive side bearing is the culprit but I cant for the life of me figure out how to remove it. the non drive side just fell out almost with a few taps from a punch on races. (I know you arent supposed to pull on the inner race but I was gentle and quite frankly I dont care about these hubs) no mater what I looked for or how I tapped with the hammer that bearing was not coming out. So I checked to see if it would even come out. The ratchet for the hub paws are a smaller dia than the bearing outer race. and it cant be pushed through and exit the non drive side. And i looked and looked for a circlip or pin or something that screamed how to remove the ratchet but I couldn't. So I just cleaned up the old grease and re greased the paws put it back together and got kinda mad.

Tried sending iron hose an E-mail yesterday but there online complaint dept or whatever isnt working. after I took the time to type up everything asking for service info and mfr of the hubs i hit send and the next page said "message failed to send plese try later" So anyways. I guess this kinda puts me in the market for a new wheelset. unfortunately with a shoestring budget. I have become more open minded about what wheelsets I like.

Kinda digging the fulcrum racing 7's especially for that price and seems like they hold heavy guys like myself up alot. And I like the fact that it seems parts support is easyer to find. What I dont like is its lower spoke count (but with beefy spokes like that it might not matter) No eyelet on the rims (have to step up to the racing 5 for that but not really sure how much it helps) and it seems like there is alot of price variation. So Its hard for me to tell what I need. Wiggle bikes or whatever seems to have one right around 200 and afaik its for shimano and its the wheelset.

My other thought is still the 105 and cxp33 option. I like this because its a traditional wheel with higher spoke count. Name brand wheel and good hubs. servicability is almost encouraged with cone bearings. bearings are more easily serviced by the user with name brand parts (balls and whatnot)

But as of now really liking the fulcrums. and Still want to know what someone thinks of me getting a 105 hub and either building the rear wheel up or having someone build it for me. I realize there is alot of special tooling but it could always wait.

Thanks everyone
Sean Scott

Christobevii3

The difference between the 32 spoke bww and 20/24 fulcrum racing 7's seems kind of out there in comparison. The weight difference isn't much between them but i'd imagine 32 spokes vs 24 in the rear is going to be quite a bit for durability in theory. I'd at least look at 24/28, pure race aero from bww maybe? I'd get the 32 spokers from bww and have a solid workhorse wheel then look at something lighter with less spokes later. It sucks not being able to ride because your wheel is needing spokes replaced and you don't have a backup.