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Just Spec'd Out New Wheels

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Just Spec'd Out New Wheels

Old 10-09-11, 06:07 PM
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Just Spec'd Out New Wheels

I'm in the 230lb range, and I've broken just about everything I can on cheaper wheels. Today was the last straw. I'm already having to use a borrowed rear (borrowed from my old hybrid) because my rear hub broke, and today I noticed that my front rim had somehow gone totally out of dish. It still looked true spinning in the brakes, but relative to the fork (and the dishing tool once I was at the shop) the rim was a couple mm off to one side.

So I've decided to go for an upgrade, a real bullet-proof wheelset. I'm going hand-built by a local builder with an excellent reputation. Talking to him today, we were pretty much on exactly the same page all the way around.

My toughest call was on the hubs. The boutique hubs (White Industries, Chris King Swift/R45, etc) are just so...nice. They have style, they look cool, they have great internals, but they're expensive. But we ended up coming to a consensus that the classic Shimano hub is really the way to go for me. The cost, the proven reliability, serviceability, and finally the availability of black hubs in 105 level decided it. I just want long-lasting, no worries wheels, so it makes a lot of sense that the class cup-and-cone is a great way to go. And the cost is right when compared to boutique hubs.

So here's the build, what do you think? Probably overkill, but I'm tired of breaking things. Should still come out not much over 1800g, and the price is definitely right for an indestructible training set. And with the blacked-out look, they'll still look cool I think. Maybe I can get some decals or something to add some color.

Velocity A23 rims, black
Shimano 105 Hubs, black
DT Comp spokes, black, laced 32F/36R
Brass nipples, black

Last edited by pbd; 10-09-11 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 10-09-11, 07:20 PM
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i think thats a terrible choice of a rim. you say you want absolute bombproof but your going with a 420gram rim and you weigh 230lbs? not that smart in my opinion. go with a fusion at a minimum or a deep v if you truly want bombproof. IF your gonna build up a light set of wheels, then go with the A23's and get some lightweight hubs.

I'll bet a large sum of money that you do things to your wheels that they weren't meant to do. I'm 20lbs heavier than you and I've had a rim crack at the spoke holes on the drive side and that is what is going to happen to you if you use those lighterweight rims. you'll be rebuilding them again in 6-9 months. you would be more bomb proof going with deep v's with 24/28 spoke count and go with aero spokes. you'll be adding 200grams of weight in the rims but you'll be subtracting 100 grams of spoke weight so you'll still be in a pretty good weight range and be a bit more aero.

go with alloy nipples and you'll cut down another 50 grams so you won't be much off the weight you were expecting.

i have a set of 32/32 velocity fusion rims buitl with circus monkey hubs (you can get the same hubs from bikehubstore.com for $100) even with 32 spokes they weighed in at 1575 grams they have been excellent so far though I do alternate them with a set of carbon tubulars

Last edited by dalesclyde; 10-09-11 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 10-09-11, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by pbd
Velocity A23 rims, black
Shimano 105 Hubs, black
DT Comp spokes, black, laced 32F/36R
Brass nipples, black
Have to admit, I'm still a bit skeptical of running wide rims like the A23 on a road bike. If you want an ultra-light rim, I'd suggest that the Aerohead (front) and Aerohead O/C (rear) are better choices than the A23. If you want ultimate durability, lots of people swear by the Velocity Deep V. I went with the Kinlin XR-270 and XR-300 for my last wheel build. They're a bit lighter than the Deep V, though not as light as the Aerohead, and seem to be holding up well so far.

I would also avoid using black nipples. In my experience, it's far too easy to scratch the color off and they start to look ugly pretty quickly. I think that silver holds up a bit better than black. Stick with brass nipples rather than alloy.
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Old 10-09-11, 08:52 PM
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I'm 235, and have never had a problem with Mavic Krsyriums, the 2008 model, and now a set of 2011s. Never had to true them, and they feel very secure under me when I bottom out on nasty descents. Not very sexy, but just a solid set of wheels. 2011 are listed at under 1500 grams.
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Old 10-09-11, 09:26 PM
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I think the A23s are gonna be fine. They'll even let you run 700cx28 no problem, if you eventually choose to go wide.

If you get convinced that they're not sturdy enough, go Dyads. Slightly wider, slightly taller. Suitable for loaded touring and tandems.

But seriously, the A23s will work great, especially since you're (probably?) getting them built 3x instead of radial are anything silly like that.
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Old 10-09-11, 10:50 PM
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The build quality is equally important as the parts you use.

I have a single pair of wheels for my CX bike to train and race on. They're $15 rims and $20 hubs. Seriously; I have a pair for my ss roadie rig, too. They're $98 a pair including 14g DT spokes. But I build them strong as hell and they put up with MTB trails, multiple crashes involving people stepping on/through spokes, and so far a half season of race abuse after a full summer of training torture.
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Old 10-09-11, 11:30 PM
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You can still run 700x28 on Fusions or Deep V. I would look at going to the Fusion or if you truly want bombproof the Deep V. The Hubs and spoke are just fine.
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Old 10-10-11, 02:17 AM
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I have a set of 105 hubs from 97 that are still in great shape, yes the Deep V accepts 28's, I have them on my tandem.

32 spokes should be fine in a Deep V. I'm using a 28/24 combo on my bike right now and still fine after 9000 miles. I currently weigh more than you.

Maybe a Deep V in the rear and a Fusion up front.

Or a Deep V in the rear and a CXP33 up front.
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Old 10-10-11, 09:51 AM
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I think that's way overkill for someone 230 lbs. I've got about 20-30 pounds on you and I've been riding 20/24 spoke wheels with no issues.
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Old 10-10-11, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mandopickr
I'm 235, and have never had a problem with Mavic Krsyriums, the 2008 model, and now a set of 2011s. Never had to true them, and they feel very secure under me when I bottom out on nasty descents. Not very sexy, but just a solid set of wheels. 2011 are listed at under 1500 grams.
My SL Premiums are out at Mavic right now being requilt around the original hubs. One of the front nipples cracked. The rear rim flat out cracked at one the spoke holes. 3 yrs. old. Never rode on them at more than 220 lbs.
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Old 10-10-11, 04:23 PM
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Seems really odd that a front wheel would suddenly become dished, and have it remain laterally true at the same time. Being a front wheel, it shouldn't have had any dish to it at all, right? For the hub to have been pulled off-center, and still rotate in plane, all the spokes to one side of the hub had to change tension the same amount. That sounds very weird to me.

But then I only know enough about wheels to get me in trouble.

Last edited by CraigB; 10-10-11 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 10-10-11, 06:53 PM
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I've got 6 months of occasional riding on some silver, dirt cheapest Alex RP15F rims, 36H, 14 guage straight no-name taiwanese spokes, Front and Rear, 700x32C tires on some joytech taiwanese/chinese hubs. Still running true. Great commute and casual riding wheel. Heavy, and only single wall. But I really don't notice with the 32C rubber. Box of 100 spokes w/ brass nipples was like only $23, and the rims were $9/ea on sale. I've hit a number of potholes, and flew off curbs. After removing off the bike and check the axles, they spin better than when new, and the rear axle is still straight. The only thing I think would be better would be lower cost shipping. They wanted 1/4th the price more for shipping on average.

My point is that any decent rim matched to a decent tire acting as a cushion along with a rider that can react to road conditions to properly absorb impacts will extend a wheel's service life. You don't need a lot of money.
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Old 10-10-11, 09:26 PM
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Thanks for the replies.

I didn't expect complete agreement, but I didn't expect complete disagreement either. But hey, it's all good.

The build will definitely be done right, and it seems pretty universally agreed that's the most important part.

As far as the rims, I didn't think they'd be that controversial. I'm disappointed to read that some think I'm an idiot (although he's banned now, it seems), but encouraged that many agree it's a good rim for me. I've read a lot about rims. Deep Vs they're not, for certain, but they're getting used in cyclocross by a lot of people it seems, and there are reports of people running them on mountain bikes as well. The A23s are roughly the same weight as Open Pros, so not super light weights, but not boat anchors either. But from my reading and from talking to the builder who is very well regarded, I think they're probably a good bet. Especially with that many spokes to spread the load. Several good reports around about running them tubeless as well, I may have to give that a shot and see what the fuss is all about.

Either way the builder will stand behind them. I should end up with a set of wheels that ride great and last forever...if not then I feel sure he'll take care of me.



Originally Posted by CraigB
Seems really odd that a front wheel would suddenly become dished, and have it remain laterally true at the same time. It shouldn't have had any dish to it at all, right? Which means all the spokes to one side of the hub had to change tension the same amount. That sounds very weird to me.

But then I only know enough about wheels to get me in trouble.
Maybe it was like that all along and I just never noticed. Either way, not happy with current wheels.

Last edited by pbd; 10-10-11 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 10-10-11, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by pbd
They're roughly the same weight as Open Pros, so not super light weights, but not boat anchors either.
Actually an OP is 420 and a Deep V is listed at 520 but a few of the comaprisons have them down in reality at 560. But you said you want a durable training wheel.
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Old 10-10-11, 09:57 PM
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I meant the A23 is about the same as an Open Pro. Edited for clarity.
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Old 10-11-11, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by pbd
The A23s are roughly the same weight as Open Pros, so not super light weights, but not boat anchors either.
The Open Pro's seem to have gotten lighter, and less durable, over the years. I can't think of many 700c aluminum clincher rims that are much lighter than the A23's 426 grams... Velocity's lightest 700c clincher would appear to be the Blunt SL at 420g.
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