Neil_B

Stepping aside from ad-hom directed at me, I think the general point is that if the OP feels the need to complain in his ride reports about being dropped by his buddies, it's acceptable to note those riders have a habit of doing that to other able-bodied cyclists. Also, the OP not long ago started a thread about "what makes a good ride leader", so opinions on that topic are fair game too.

Neil_B

No one is criticizing him for his choice. He's being criticized for complaining about his choice. I'm reminded of someone who spends all day bowing and then complains his back hurts.

indyfabz

If we are talking about this ride, from the clarification, it doesn't sound like he was dropped. He got left because he stopped without letting the others know. If I am on a ride (leading or not) and I drop back for, say, a nature break without informing anyone and the group rides on, I don't consider myself dropped. And insasmuch as he clarified that it was his fault, it doesn't sound to me like he is complaining.

indyfabz

Wait. I thought your season was over anyway.

And as of now, looks like popping the cork this weekend might be premature:

https://gma.yahoo.com/penn-state-sex-...to-retire.html

wfournier

I was on the ride in question and can attest that what you described was not this case for that ride. My take on it was that there were a few factors that led to the issues. The group was larger than the ride leader was expecting (about 17 or 18 people as I recall). After the first stop two riders took off, it wasn't clear why but the ride leader took it somewhat personally and was upset (I can't say for sure but somewhere in there I got the impression they wanted to ride faster than the group was going to be). The trouble started after leaving the first stop when the ride leader led the group through streets that were crowded with people due to a parade and then onto the parade route riding in the opposite direction the parade was going. Neil was stopped from following the rest of the group by a police officer manning the intersection. It was not until about a mile down the road that Chris told me Neil got dropped and he was going back to find him (we didn't know why at that point). I rode to the front of the group (traveling at about 15-16 mph now) and told the ride leader that Neil got dropped. He did not appear to be at all concerned by this and did not stop until the next turn where he pointed out the road markings to the group. At that point the group started moving again before Neil and Chris caught up to the group. The rest of the ride basically just continued the chaos and I can agree that there seemed to be some feelings of animosity towards Neil and by extension Chris who was riding with Neil from the rest of the group (one example would be the women who somewhat rudely refused Chris's help with her second flat after swapping her tube but not finding what caused the flat in the first place). As far as the pace for the second half on the ride I rode with the group and it was not uncommon to hit 17-18 mph for pretty good stretches. As this was advertised as a 12-13 mph no drop ride I can see where some people would have an issue with this.

Personally I am willing to chalk this up to a bad day all around as it was the first time I rode with this group and from what I have seen it was a different group then generally does these ride. I think it is possible that the ride leader was in over his head and was not sure how to control the situation.

chefisaac

Neil: I never said that the philly ride with Sayre would be a speed ride. I am ok with doing a non speed ride plus it will be in the city anyway and speed usually is not a factor.

AGAIN... for me.... I do like to work on speed, hills, losing weight, etc. That is what works FOR ME NEIL. Geeeze. Its not on every ride... I do like to ride rides where I dont have to push all the time (like the ride I did last weekend). I think perhaps you are missunstanding this or I am not communicating this right.

chefisaac

As for last week, it was my fault because it was a quick stop that took longer then expected and I did not let them know I was stopping before I did so. Water under the bridge. No complaining or *****ing.... just part of the ride.

Phly has some good points.

When new riders come out with us (and we continue to have new riders), we accomadate pace and rest stops.

I would agree with Wfour. There were a lot of riders that day, more so then what the ride leader was expecting and it was hectic down town. There was a lot of things that I wish were different and I do take that ride a little personally because Neil is a friend (someone who I first rode with which meant a lot to me) and it sucks that he had a bad time on that ride. For that, I am truely sorry. I invited Neil and everyone out to do that ride so I do take it personally if someone didnt have a good time. Not talking about the DE folks but the PA folks.

This does bag the question though... food for thought.... when a ride is set for a 12-14 mph avg, must you always be in the 12-14 range when riding? I awlays thought it would be an OVERALL average when the ride ends.

Emskirch

Would love to ride with you guys, might have to wait 4 weeks (hopefully) as I coach youth football. I can ride in DE or PA or NJ; Maybe if a Sunday ride is planned I can throw my hat in the ring, as football games are on Saturday. And this weekend I have plans with the wife and princess.

I lurk alot; but if I see a thread with a ride after this week on Sunday I will post, or free free to message me if plans are in the works and I have missed a thread!

paisan

In my experience (group rides in the va beach area) the advertised speeds were the max speeds for the group over flat ground. It's a lot more clear to say this ride is xxmph MAX on flat ground. Obviously climbs will be slower and downhills faster but with the group rolling on flat ground everyone sticks to the max speed.

The problem with the peach ride wasnt just the average speed and piss poor planning. My major issue was the fact that it was advertised as no drop. That doesn't mean "ehh they're close enough" it also doesn't mean "well there's marks in the road so we'll leave them to find their own way back" mind you we were still 1e miles away from the car when tje ride leader abandoned us. Also note that his "clear" road markings were anything but and at one point the whole group turned the wrong way including the ride leader.

The other issue was the friggin attitude given to the slower riders. At one point I offered to repair a flat and got yelled at "YOU JUST KEEP RIDING" at which point I responded something that I can't really remembered but I didn't get yelled at again.

As for someone who wasn't there telling Neeil it was his negative attitude that caused it, neil didn't say a word before/during the ride to deserve that treatment. It's only been since this ride that he's made comments, and rightly so to some extent.

My 2 cents

Sayre Kulp 

OT: It's retirement - not dismissal. And it will come at the end of yet another successful season - not Saturday.

Sayre Kulp 

YOU pretty much made things about you. Isaac clarified that there was no malicious intent in his recent ride. He let it go along time ago and yet somehow you can't. We get it - you have an axe to grind with this group after you got dropped on a group ride. After reading about said ride, I can't honestly say that I blame you for being pissed. But it happened and it's over now. Don't you think it's time to let it go? More than that, maybe stop misdirecting said anger at Issac. He certainly doesn't deserve the subtle shots you've been taking.

chefisaac

sayre, will, paisan, neil and anyone else: I say we hit philly next weekend..... to celabrate Sayres BIRHTDAY! Thoughts?

Neil_B

16,986 articles on Google News say differently. I'll let you pick out your favorite ones. Most of them use the word "fired." Many use "disgraced."

Almost every major newspaper, magazine, and sporting publication in the country pointed out why Paterno shouldn't be coach at Penn State. PSU made the right call.

Neil_B

Sorry, at the moment it's not Philly I'd like to hit. I'll pass.

Neil_B

I'm getting out as I can. I'm so arthritic at the moment I'm having trouble walking. I had to cancel a ride in Oley last Saturday because of the discomfort.

paisan

I'm gonna pass. I'm in Philly everyday, nothing mystical about it to me and I sure as hell don't want to ride in it.

paisan

Looks like the board of trustees said otherwise and Neil doesn't even have to wait for the weekend to celebrate.

Neil_B

PSU has a lot of work to do as it tries to repair public trust and move from its status as a semi-pro football team with an attached college. It started last night.

Neil_B

Little article for you, Sayre:

https://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/ar...this-me,26609/

Sayre Kulp 

1) The whole story changed within the 4 hours or so since I posted that.

2) This is off topic and I consider it trolling at it's finest. AS defined by wikipedia: "Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."

3) There's nothing funny about child abuse. A tragedy occurred, but there was seldom a mention of the victims or even Sandusky until Joe Paterno was fired. Even today, the most common news stories focus on the aftermath of Paterno's firing, rather than the status of the investigation. This is not indicative of responsible reporting by the media.

4) Getting your news from The Onion? Might as well be Fox News.

Neil_B

It's called "thread drift." But I agree your defenses of the indefensible are really for another place and time.

Sayre Kulp 

It's not "thread drift" when you design your post deliberately to cause an emotional response from someone. It's my fault though. Despite knowing who and what you are, I've been continuing to feed you. That's not goingto happen anymore.

Apologies to ChefIsaac for aiding in the derailment of your thread.

To the moderators - I apologize for this, and if you see fit, I suggest removing the posts that have gone way off course, bordering on personal attacks.

Neil_B

Only person making personal attacks is you, Kulp. See above.