christ0ph

I just read something scary.
https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/1...ps-and-drinks/

Evidenly some recent research by a Harvard epidemiologist and colleagues revealed that eating SOME (not all, see below) canned foods -from cans that use BPA in their lining- can raise blood levels of Bisphenol A by a huge amount.

(Note post below>:" I work for a big soup company and we do not have this issue anymore.")

Its expected that some other canned items (similarly coated sodas + beers) are going to be even more of a health threat because people consume more volume of them. (Someone might eat food from half - as in the study, evidently- or even more of these BPA-coated cans in a day, but its even more common for people to consume several canned sodas or beers a day)

The evidence is mounting up that Bisphenol A levels and obesity are associated.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ty+bisphenol-a

Bisphenol A seems to negatively impact male fertility and it is one of the most omnipresent "endocrine disruptors" that seem to be increasingly linked to obesity, (also see here) reproductive system abnormalities, cancer, diabetes, and many other serious illnesses.

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This is the first few paragraphs of the NYT article:

"BPA Lurks in Canned Soups and Drinks
By ANAHAD O'CONNOR
Is there BPA in your canned food?

A new study by Harvard researchers may provide another reason to skip the canned pumpkin and cranberry sauce this Thanksgiving. People who ate one serving of canned food daily over the course of five days, the study found, had significantly elevated levels — more than a tenfold increase — of bisphenol-A, or BPA, a substance that lines most food and drink cans.

Most of the research on BPA, a so-called endocrine disruptor that can mimic the body’s hormones, has focused on its use in plastic bottles. It has been linked in some studies to a higher risk of cancer, heart disease, diabetes and obesity, and health officials in the United States have come under increasing pressure to regulate it. Some researchers, though, counter that its reputation as a health threat to people is exaggerated.

The new study, which was published Tuesday in The Journal of the American Medical Association, is the first to measure the amounts that are ingested when people eat food that comes directly out of a can, in this case soup. The spike in BPA levels that the researchers recorded is one of the highest seen in any study.

“We cannot say from our research what the consequences are,” said Karin Michels, an associate professor of epidemiology at Harvard Medical School and an author of the study. “But the very high levels that we found are very surprising. We would have never expected a thousand-percent increase in their levels of BPA.”

As part of the study, Dr. Michels and her colleagues recruited a group of 75 staff members and students at the Harvard School of Public Health, split them into two groups, and then followed them for two weeks. During the first week, one group ate a 12-ounce serving of vegetarian soup from a common brand of canned soup every day for five days; the other group, meanwhile, ate 12 ounces of vegetarian soup made from fresh ingredients each day. Then, after a two-day soup-free “wash out” period, the groups switched roles and were followed for five more days. At the end of each five-day period, the subjects provided urine samples.

Dr. Michels noted that all the participants were fed amounts of soup that were smaller than what people probably would consume on their own. “One serving of soup is a not a lot,” she said. “They were actually telling us that that wasn’t even enough for their lunch.”....

chefisaac

Christ: not all soups cans are like this. I work for a big soup company and we do not have this issue anymore.

christ0ph

Which company? Also, are you absolutely sure? No BPA in the coating?

If so, you should make that public knowledge. That is a big selling point. Also, you should write the NYT blog linked above as well as the researcher each a letter explaining that they may be wrong in some cases (give the specific info they need to verify that) as the article says that most cans are coated with plastic.

If you can PM me with some kind of info that shows this I will edit this post to reflect that.

christ0ph

Are you allowed to put that info on your can labels? "NO BPA IN THIS CAN'S LINER"

chefisaac

Chris: I am a small fish in big waters. There are many layers in the onion so to speak and all I am one of the chefs for the company.

Not looking for an edit on the post at all but just wanted to add that not every can is created equally. Technology has come SO far in the last 30 years when it comes to cans.

christ0ph

In some communities, canned soups and similar canned products like tomato paste are as good at it gets at the neighborhood food store.

I thought the move from tin cans with lead solder to plastic coated aluminum was completely good, but if they added BPA to some of them, that's not good at all.

Lead builds up in your bones, etc, BPA gets stored in your fat cells.

I wonder how they could ever do a study on long term exposure on this planet, they would probably have to use people from the very poorest countries as controls.. Certainly almost everybody in the US, has been exposed to lots of it.

I'd be interested in learning any method of identifying brands that use it from brands that don't.

stonefree

Aluminum without BPA isn't exactly innocent either, being linked to alzheimer's as it is used (in various chemical compounds) as an emulsifier in baking powder, table salt etc. and many processed baked goods, like pizza dough. Anyone getting the picture yet?

chefisaac

try soup in a pouch or in plastic.

christ0ph

Glass or stainless steel are good for cooking, but what are people supposed to use to buy store-bought food in. I suppose we could bring our own containers, and buy it in bulk from large glass/steel dispensers.

Like bulk items in health food stores. I used to buy shampoo like that.

It may come to that.

>"try soup in a pouch or in plastic."

Isaac, if the soup was cooked, then cooled very quickly, put in a pouch, sealed, and then immediately flash frozen, that might reduce the amount of plasticizers that could leach. Also, as I understand it, the very hard kinds of plastic are fairly safe, its the soft kinds that have the worst chemicals in them.

The same thing goes for the plastics on electronics. Those old soft plastics on TVs and monitors were very bad.

christ0ph

The stuff in non-stick coatings is also really, really bad. Especially if it gets "too hot".

If you have a pet bird, they say, never, ever use non-stick pans in your home, always use stainless steel, cast iron, or glass, because if you burn your pot - or even if it just gets too hot, you may not smell anything yet, but even that- low level of its vapor can sometimes kill them.

Some parrots are very intelligent and we now realize, self aware tool makers who bond for life - like (now-deceased) Alex "Pepperberg", whose life and work was eulogized in the New York Times. I love parrots but I don't have one, because I would be terrified of the responsibility, so many chemicals around us are dangerous now.

goldfinch

The evidence against BPA has been pretty dang persuasive for a number of years but the US has really dragged its feet on the issue. Industry lobbies are strong.

There is no good research showing a connection between aluminum and Alzheimer's. But a connection has not been disproved either.

And yes, don't use nonstick coatings if you have a pet bird.

david58

I just find eating parrots in excess makes me fat. So rather than blame the cans or the pans or my genes, I just don't eat parrots any more. But I cook with Aluminum, so I can't really remember.

christ0ph

Are there any feral parrots in Oregon? There are large flocks in San Francisco, San Diego, and Brooklyn/Queens (of all places)

Crows are also extremely intelligent, recent research shows, but they are less likely to be in a house.

Birds are commonly eaten as you describe as street food in Asia. Roasted on a stick. So are large grasshoppers.

christ0ph

Whoa.. that "pizza vegetable" is also laced with alumina? Maybe we should forgo the pizza in those controversial school lunches and just serve em spaghetti with gobs of tomato paste instead for their lycopene!

david58

Roast parrot is better than boiled, I find, whether on a stick or on an aluminum pan. Too many feathers in my teeth from the boiled ones in the plastic pouch.

christ0ph

I grew up eating food on aluminum but now the only aluminum cookware in my life is my wife's nonstick frying pan. Which I worry about a little but she's made up her mind on the issue.

Formaldehyde is another ubiqutous carcinogen that has been soft-pedaled around but which is probably a serious problem. Almost all recently built homes are loaded with it. People who own them should look into a heat recovery ventilator to allow year round ventilation without energy loss.

socalrider

the Jillian Michaels book "master your metabolism" is mostly about the things we encounter in every day lives that create havoc on our system. It is worth taking a look

https://www.amazon.com/Master-Your-Me...2153934&sr=1-3

david58

There are many icky things in our environment - some we can control, others we cannot. Accuse me of doing the head-in-the-sand thing if you wish, but I work on controlling the things I can within reason and not worrying about those I cannot. I try to eat and drink the right things, avoid doing the stupid things, etc. The thing I don't care for in the original article is the implication from one study that the compounds cause obesity. It is just another excuse for some for their situation, when the hard truth is all summed up in the concept of calories in / calories out. I had to come to grips with that before I could continue weight loss, since it is all too easy to out-eat my exercise (if I rode 6-8 hours a day, that would be different) in my still overweight state. But I can't blame externalities for my choice to eat more than I burn.

lookinUp

+1

goldfinch

I agree that there isn't solid research on BPA and obesity and most of the research is animal research and therefore questionable. However, I do not agree with you that understanding factors that enter into eating too many calories for our metabolism amounts to "just another excuse." I lost weight. My weight loss was not sabotaged by understanding that there may be genetic and environment reasons I ate too much and why there may be reasons why it is hard to keep weight off. In contrast to you, not taking all the blame on myself helped me lose weight and helps me be aware that it is going to be hard to keep it off. Knowledge is power and all that jazz. But what works for me may not work for others.

prathmann

If you're talking about BPA, then it's the other way around. BPA is used in the manufacture of polycarbonates, which were used in the very hard plastic bottles. But the hard bottles now sold are generally BPA-free. Softer bottles, such as typical bicycle water bottles, never had BPA.

david58

But in the end, we have to eat less than we burn to lose it, eat the same as we burn to maintain it, or decide to eat more than we burn to gain it. I'm not taking blame on myself, just responsibility. Nobody else can do it for me, or to me.

Axiom

It's better to eat fresh vegetables or fruit rather than canned, since a lot of the canning process removes a lot of the nutrients the food has to offer. If you do that, you shouldn't have to worry about that. As far as soda -- it should be avoided at all costs. And you are right, a lot of these studies are done by testing on animals. Animals aren't a very stable source for research because often times the same research is done on humans, only to find out that we react differently, making the original study null and void.

goldfinch

Yes, that is all we can do. But being aware of internal and external factors that effect weight gain may help us exercise that responsibility. Plus, I don't believe in beating myself up--it just makes me feel bad and hopeless. Instead, I'd rather go the behavior modification route and try to find ways of thinking that help me not overeat. So instead of thinking that I am a lazy-ass that can't resist food it helps me to know that resistance is difficult for most anyone in my position and my nature in fact is not lazy. Or, if I am stressed or unhappy instead of eating I will try to find some other way to relieve the stress. Thank goodness for birding and bikes! Or, if my spouse makes fudge instead of trying to resist the fudge I ask him to give most away and hide the rest. I know I can't resist fudge if it is sitting in front of me. Etc.


Axiom, I love my soda. I know it is bad for me and comes in BPA coated cans. But I am picking my battles and I am not fighting this one for now.

Axiom

I do too :-(

I didn't mention the fact that I am trying to avoid soda, and that it is still very hard for me. Good luck with your goals :-)