Pamestique 

My Bike Buying Experience:

No, not for me. Thankfully I have some great bikes but I have a friend that now wants to take the plunge and buy a real road bike. She is a strong mountain biker and has been riding a “comfort bike” when trails are wet but she realizes she can’t keep up with the rest of us on our roadie bikes.

She has some difficult parameters: 1) she knows nothing about bikes and doesn’t want to know. If it’s any bother, she is not interested. She knows nothing about fit, or components etc. and doesn’t want to know (this is a lady that takes flats to the shop for fixing). So we go shopping – I don’t know her size and only know she is going to be fussy about color and she doesn’t want to spend more than $1000 “out the door”.

Good Grief…. I now have a lot of respect for people trying to get into the sport and don’t know much about bikes. I know quite a bit and my SO, who came with, builds his own bikes so knows a lot. The first shop we go to, I ask “need a first road bike, best components possible, less than $1,000”. The kid points to a bike but my friend didn’t like it because it was mostly white. I pointed to all the road bikes in the store to show her most of them are white with either black, red, blue or yellow decoration. The kid finds a bike that had more black and pulls it out. I ask “Do you think that will fit?” “Huh” he says. My friend is barely 5’2”. The bike was a 56cm. I tell him I think she is somewhere between a 48 – 51. He never measures her but just pulls out a 48. I won’t get into the test ride which was a whole other nightmare and let me just tell you my fiends is alittle stubborn so I have to work on the concept of “fit” with her.

The Shop was Jensen’s. They had a Jamis priced at around $800 with Sora Components. Not bad but I noticed it was a double. I know my friend. She won’t like the double. Do they have a triple. “no”. So we leave.

We next go to the local Specialized concept store. What a nightmare that was. This young girl comes out. I ask her “We are looking for a road bike, around a 50 – 51 cm, triple crank, around $1,000”. She first announces “You can’t buy a bike with a triple, they are becoming obsolete!” My SO walked away to avoid saying something nasty. I say “Ah no, they aren’t obsolete and won’t be obsolete… your store caters to young guys who want to race who don’t want a triple…” Realizing what she said, she then takes us over to the “book”. The first bike was in the price range around $1000 but the components were extremely low end (2300). I knew my friend won’t not be happy with that. I asked about the “Ruby”. It came in a triple with Tiagra components but sold at $1900!!! Good lord a low end for $1900!!! We leave knowing our best bet is either fix up her existing bike or find something used.

My beef is with the shops. The inexperience and down right lying sort of pissed me off. If you don’t have friends that know something how do you buy a bike and get a good deal? My friend most likely would have been sold something she didn’t like and would never ride.

phlydude

How frustrating...
However, if you didn't bring the issues to the attention of the management, then you really can't expect to get any resolve going forward. Give them a call and ask to speak to the manager at each location. Explain the lack of service and how you will not be back to their stores because of it...let them attempt a fix and give it another shot.

There are stores with great cust. service and those without, I choose to take my business to a LBS miles away from me because the guys in there take time to ask questions and try to figure out what will work best for me. They do the wrench work and the sales at the same time and are well rounded. Go smaller...you may pay a little more but your service experience will likely be much better.
Also, check out the manufacturer sites to see what you think would interest your friend and have specific models in mind when you go there. Referencing these models will help your LBS steer you towards the similar bikes in that range and hopefully, you come out with something to enjoy long term.

squirtdad

my 2 cents

first you need to give your friend a bike basics instruction.......basics things you need to know to be happy, fit, components, what it's going to cost, color limitations.

I would suggest you see if you can find an established independent shop vs a chain or manufacturer shop. The regional forums is a good place to ask. This will be exta important as your4friend will have an ongoing relationship with the shop (based on your description) you will need to explain that an independent will probably be a little more expensive on the purchase....but it will be a penny wise, pound foolish type of thing and she be better off long term with a bike she likes and support she trusts.

Looking at the costs of new bikes with reasonable components is some times shocking.....but when you look at the inflation etc... the prices are in line with what they have always been.

my guess is clothes will be a another whole experience...... point her to www.voler.com

sstorkel

This is almost true, actually. At least as far as Specialized's product lines go. In 2011 they eliminated many of their triple (and some compact double) models in favor of a "mid-compact" (52/36) crank and wide-range (11-28) cassette. You can see this especially in the Tarmac product line. For 2012, it looks like they're still doing mid-compact cranks for the Tarmac but most of the other product lines get a traditional compact crank (110mm BCD, 50/34 gearing).

Or do some more research before you go shopping... I'm surprised you didn't ask to see the $1100 Specialized Dolce Sport Triple. It has Sora components, but otherwise meets your requirements. If you can get your friend to overcome her triple-crank bias and try a compact, you'll likely find that there are quite a few more choices (and price points) available...

Also, don't forget that many shops are willing to negotiate on price, so you won't necessarily have to pay MSRP. My suggestion for new roadies is always to go for a bike with a compact crank, 11-28 cassette, and Shimano 105 or SRAM Apex components. MSRP is around $1500 and you can probably shave another couple of hundred off that if you're skillful or lucky.

Sounds like you've had the standard 21st Century bike shop experience. Now you know why I buy all of my parts online and do all of my own maintenance...

tony_merlino

I have mixed feelings about this.

Since I started on BF, I've seen almost a religious level of respect for the LBS. Yet my own experience with LBSs has been very mixed, to the point where I finally decided to bite the bullet, buy the tools, and learn to do all my own work. My last two experiences with a very highly regarded LBS convinced me to never go there again for anything - and that's a local business that's been in the same location since the 1950s.

On the other hand, I wonder why we, as cyclists, demand a level of competence, honesty and desire to please from LBS personnel that we don't demand from any other party we do business with. (At least I don't, but then again, I'm originally from NYC...) Would we expect a car salesman to know everything there was to know about cars, to have our best interests at heart, to be completely honest?

Some would say, yes they should, that's the way to build goodwill and future business, yada-yada. But I don't think most places work that way. Chances are that you're dealing with a high-school or college kid who's doing this part-time, and expects to be doing something completely different in a few years. Or you're dealing with the owner, who spots the dilettante a mile away, and figures it doesn't matter what he sells her; likely she'll ride for a few weeks, get sick of it, and the bike will rot in the garage until it shows up at her yard sale. Either way, all they want to do is say whatever it takes to get you out the door leaving some of your money behind.

A person who approaches cars the way the OP's friend approaches her bicycle will probably get by, but will pay a lot more in maintenance and repairs than a person who takes the trouble to do a little homework. I'm not sure it's even possible to "get by" without doing that homework, at least to some extent, in the cycling world, other than if all you do is take a few spins around the park on Sundays.

jethro56 

I'm kinda sneeky. When I go into a LBS for the first time I act like I don't know anything about bikes. I find that shops with dedicated salesmen will try to sell whatever they got. One time I had a 19 ish kid try to sell me a 54 cm bike (I ride a 60 cm) the shops that a mechanic stops whatever he's doing to talk to you will often say something like take a look at this. It's a 56 so it'll be too small but we have some 58s and 60s coming in. How flexable are you? If you're flexable then a 60 would be a better fit.... and off we go talking geek speak. I think best experience was when a Salesman said. "This is the same bike Lance Armstrong rides." I could help but break out laughing, it wasn't even a Trek.

Yo Spiff

Not all LBS's are the same, and even in a good one, you can get an employee that doesn't know much. Went into one local shop this summer, shopping for a hybrid or flat bar road bike for my wife. When we walked in the door, the young man who approached us must have sized us up as grandpa & grandma, not knowing I was an enthusiast and had been a customer there for 10+ years. He took us over to a heavy looking hot pink cruiser and proposed that as the perfect bike. Didn't even talk to us to ask what we had in mind. Then we went over to Performance, which sees regular derision in the forums. The guy actually recognized me as a regular and talked to us to find out her specific needs and wants before he made any recommendations.

Pamestique 

No you come give her the basics... I have been trying to teach her how to change a flat for 4 years (I teach a skills and maintenance clinic). She refuses to learn. She just cannot be bothered. That is part of my frustration. I totally understand the whole "fit" thing (I worked with John howard before) and tried to explain it to her. I sent her several articles this morning to read. Hope she does.

I can honestly say I know all the shops in So Cal. Been there done that (again the SO is a builder and frequents alot of the shops looking for deals on components etc). I can say 10 years ago there were a few good independant shops but most are now gone. You either buy Trek or Specialized and/or what REI or Performance carries. There are several other shops around that have any product but they are high end. They won't have entry level bikes for my friend. That's part of the frsutration.

And the clothes thing, that's been covered. She has been mountain biking for the last 4 years. Shorts and Jersey not an issue.

sstorkel - the shop did not have a Dolce Triple in shop. They had a double. The components are very low high I feel... the one we saw had 2300 not Sora (Sora would have been OK).

My friend does not have a triple crank bias... she would buy the double, just not knowing. However I know how she rides... and I know what we ride. There are alot of hilly climbs in So Cal and she would not be happy on a compact crank... its OK for flats but not so OK for long grindy climbs and the woman is never going to be that serious. She wants the road bike for when its too wet to ride mountain bikes. I know manufacturers are going to the double, cheaper to make and the public is easily convinced (it's lighter/faster) but it doesn't work for everyone. If my friend were a young, 35 year old male I woudl say go for it. She's 50, fluffier and not that into it.

I probably won't go into the concept store again because the clerk just outright lied. What she should have said is "no we don't have any triples in the store because people nowadays prefer double or compact cranks and those bikes are hard to sell. But I can show you what bikes are available in a triple..." That's what I would have done...

goldfinch

Back in about 2005 I decided to buy a bike and start riding. I did no homework and new nothing about newer bikes. I thought that a "comfort" bike would be a comfortable way to start. The LBS stuck me on a middle of the road Diamondback comfort bike, told me I had a free derailleur adjustment, and sent me out the door.

I barely rode the bike. So, I probably fulfilled the expectations of the LBS. Middle-aged, overweight person buys a bike and doesn't use it. Well, in part I didn't use it because it didn't fit right. No one helped much with the saddle, beyond putting it at a certain height and asking me if it felt fine. I didn't know. What was fine? Over the next 5, 6 years I rode that bike maybe 100 miles at best. I was always uncomfortable. After I tried to force the issue last spring and make the bike fit I realized that would never happen. The handlebars were too far away if set low enough and if set close enough they were too high. Fortunately, I found this forum when I was fussing with the bike and ended up learning about bikes and buying a new one that did fit. It helped change my life.

My next experience with LBS's was when I went shopping for a hybrid bike to replace the Diamondback. Nearly every LBS wanted to put me on whatever was the smallest adult bike they had, which was inevitably too big. They only seemed interested in whether I could more or less clear the top tube. I did a bunch of research and figured that I needed something smaller and ended up driving 170 miles to a LBS that had a hybrid bike that fit me. But even though that LBS had the bike that fit it did nothing to fit the bike to me beyond a quick seat adjustment. Later on, when I eventually worked with a fitter he said that anything larger than what I ended up finding would have been way too big. I am inclined to agree. As it was, I had the handlebars chopped off and other adjustments made to keep the reach within my reach. My husband couldn't believe that I actually paid someone to fit the bike to me and kept at trying to find something that worked. The fitting turned out to be the best money I had spent.

I go to quite a few LBS's as I travel a lot. I should try what Jethro tries but as it is older women tend towards invisible so I try to act very visible and assertive. There truly is a wide range of helpfulness and expertise. That was most apparent to me when I had front derailleur problems with my Cannondale Quick. Four attempts to fix, with the first place saying the derailleurs were adjusted as good as they were going to get, the second saying that they adjusted the derailleurs and they were fine, the third, at Cannondale's behest, changed out the chain ring, cables and front derailleur and then said it was fixed. Nope. It took an offhand comment to a mechanic at another LBS. He said that he bet the kick stand was interfering with the cables. He changed the kick stand mount and it was finally fixed.

How many put up with bikes that just don't work right? How many put up with bikes that just don't fit them right? Unless you have some sort of drive to ride I can see why many bikes end up unused in the garage.

My best experiences have been with the two fitters I have worked with. And the one mechanic who thought beyond adjusting cables or replacing parts.

rdtompki

Another option with a Compact is an 11-36 cassette. This gives a pretty low gear and with the right RD shifts just fine. Not ideal for a paceline with the wide spacing, but for almost anything else pretty practical. My wife, older than your friend, has a Specialized Triple with and 11-36 and that works well, but not ridden much since we tandem; our super-LBS suggested the 11-36 rather than a 24t chainring since the 24-39 upshift in the front is often pretty brutal. I would suggest finding a good, independent bike shop (as above) and having your friend do some test rides. Also, scour Craigslist for used - you might get lucky.

goldfinch

The funny thing is that in my home town of about 100,000 people finding a $1000 to $1500 road bike with a triple is easy. People don't have a ton of money and the hills are steep. I test rode the Dolce triple but it didn't fit.

Push

This is exactly what I do




On topic, I dunno but sounds like the buyer (your friend) wants to walk in and get the perfect bike that is a great color (why that matters so much I don't know ) without doing any of the research or homework to at least get in the ball park of what she wants, Veruca Salt comes to mind

The first bike was out of the question because of color? hmmm then you say that she is "somewhere between 48 and 51" the guy pulls out a 48, sounds standard to me, I know that when I go to look at a bike I get on and see how it feels, too small? go a size up. I just bought Trek Xcaliber, it was a 2011 and the shop didn't have any in stock so I tried a Mamba out for size (same frame) 19 was too small, 21 inch frame was a perfect fit and I ordered the Xcal I guess what I am saying is that if you have a hard time with her trying to explain fit etc how is the guy or gal at the shop suppose to do it better? especially since you said she "doesn't want to know"

when you said "My friend most likely would have been sold something she didn’t like and would never ride" a little research goes a LONG way here, I will use my recent experience with buying the Xcal again, I was deciding between a Rockhopper 29er and the Cobia initially, with a brief flirt with the idea of a Specialized Carve tossed in there and the more that I researched it I was leaning towards the Cobia even though I have an old rockhopper that I love. I test rode the RH and it seemed crowded and felt small so I decided against it but when I walked into the shop that sold specialized I said "I am looking for this in a bike, I have decided that its between a Trek Cobia and the Rockhopper, now tell me why I should buy the the rockhopper and not the Cobia" the fella gave me some very good reasons to go with the RH plus mentioned the Carve, I did this at the Trek dealer too the guy there was less knowledgeable (I may have known more about the Trek bikes than he did) he did mention the Mamba as an alternative to the Cobia for a bit less money but since I did my research and after riding the Mamba I ended up going with the Trek, if I had gone solely on the salesman and his knowledge I might be riding around on a cramped feeling Rockhopper right now.

You asked "how do you buy a bike and get a good deal?" I agree with you that we should as a consumer be able to walk into any decent shop and get straight forward answers/suggestions/recommendations on bicycles (on any product we are looking to buy really) but unfortunately doing research before walking in is always going to be the best bet, even when going to a great shop because the more we know going in the better off we will be in the end, especially when we are ready to drop a grand on a product that needs to be comfortable to use it.

just one fellas take on it.

Seattle Forrest

I'd like to hear about the test ride.

Triples are going the way of the dodo. The thing is they're harder to tune, never shift quite as well as doubles, and need to be brought back into tune more often. And then most of the people who have one only ever ride it in the middle chainring anyway (or maybe because they can't reliably shift to either of the other two). If your friend refuses even to know what frame size she needs, a triple might not be ideal for her.

Also, a compact double, especially if you pair it with a wide ranged cassette, can tackle hills as well as a triple. I do long mountain climbs and the Chilly Hilly on a standard and a compact is a lot easier than that.

Pamestique 

I live in the land of the "poseur". I can't tell you how many cyclists I run into on what they thought they wanted... a fancy carbon everything, light weight double cranked bike that they just aren't comfortable and trying to ride over 30 miles is torture. One poor man I knew bought a beautiful bike, but just not for him. He got talked into something all the young guys were riding. However he was not young, not flexible and nothing but miserable until he sold the bike.

I just hate that some shops trying to sell you something you don't need or want. They do and say things that are frankly - ignorant! Not all shops mind you but around here, most. You would think living in a large urban area there would be lots of great shops. I travel 3 1/2 hours up to Santa Maria, a smaller community where there is a great shop. Bought my mountain and road bike from there. The owner doesn't treat me like a stupid woman; he's very respectful to everyone.

Pamestique 

Yes! You nailed it! But that's my friend... she has alot of great qualities but sometimes is just stubborn about all the wrong things.

Pamestique 

How old are you, how much do you weight and how tall are you? Most men, especially younger guys, probably can do with a double. I think the one thing manufacturers are forgetting is 1) the population is getting older (and older people have more cash) which means old knees neede help and 2) the population is getting "fluffier".

I'm a strong experienced rider but I need to lose alot of weight. If I did not have my triple (and I have an 11-36!!!) I could not climb what I do. The other thing to keep in mind is focus...we are all really mountain bikers and style is different. Roadies that become MTBriders tend to mash. MTBrides that become roadies tend to spin. Although my friend is an MTBriders that mashes too so my theory is all wet!

I'm thinking of just fixing up my Lemond (which was too small for me) and having her ride it when it rains. She can buy me a dinner or two for saving her the money and effort.

And Seattle the test ride was awful. Both the SO nad I had to walk back inside the store. First all like I said she was dressed up like going to lunch at Nordstroms... hardly prepared for riding and then she only went back in forth in front of the store. She told the clerk "put it in a gear so I don't have to shift". Then she would not let us lower and move back the seat She argued she likes to ride with her legs totally extended. Really? I ride with her every weekend and have never seen her ride that way!

Juan Foote

My thoughs are that you are biting off a lot.

When this impatient person who is so demanding, without a willingness to invest the time in getting things right, buys the bike she wants based on color alone you are going to become the scapegoat for her bad decision. That is why she won't do it. She is scared of making a bad choice, so she doesn't make one at all, and then blames whoever it got pawned off on for the bad outcome.

Penny4

Punkncat is right...if anything is wrong with the bike, it will end up being your fault!
By the way, what color does your friend want??

Seattle Forrest

I'll tell you that stuff if you can help me understand how it's relevant to the difficulty in keeping a triple FD in tune so it shifts reliably, and how it answers my question about whether a person who refuses to know how to fix a flat tire or what frame size she needs is really best served with a more finicky drive train...?

If your friend refuses to even shift the bike, then double vs triple seems like a moot point, yes?

Tell her to get a fixie.

Push

or a cab or perhaps Morgan Freeman is available?

Pamestique 

Anything but white... do you know how many white or mostly white bikes are out there nowadays...

Pamestique 

Funny! Unfortunately she has only ridden a mountain bike and a comfort bike so the shifters on a modern road bike were new/unusual and foreign to her as is the positioning etc.

I checked out REI and the local Indie shops - both have a number of bikes in her price range with a triple. I told her to take my email with all the bikes and go ride what she can. The ball is now in her court.

Seattle Forrest

REI is probably a good place for her to buy a bike. If punkcat is right, and your friend is afraid of making a bad choice, buying at REI means she can return it for any reason (including "I don't like the color any more") and undo her bad choice.

skilsaw

How old is this brat? Tell her to write a letter to Santa Clause, or to grow up and be responsible for her choice of bike.

You are a sucker if you continue to waste your time with her.

I was once in a bike store when the customer currently being served was complaining about wheels that constantly needed truing. I'm not sure how often is "constantly", or how far they were out of true. It turned out that the lady lived 3 miles up a rough gravel road. She bought the bike and started commuting to work by bike daily. Her bike choice, a mid level road bike, was based on the color matching her lipstick and nail polish.

Life is difficult for people like this. Most of the trouble they manufacture themselves.

Rhodabike

I've ridden triples for years and never had a problem keeping them adjusted on my own. I suspect that some bike shop mechanics just don't know how to deal with them. Which is odd, considering most mountain bikes still have them.