Stealthammer

Agreed! .... 100%

I don't use MUPs (Multi Use Paths lest we forget....) at all because they are intended for recreational or casual users, and I seldom ride recreationally or casually. I also know that my higher rate of speed means that I could pose a significant danger to the other users. I accept this and ride on city street where I belong.

Bicycles shouldn't be banned from MUPs, but responsible cyclists should know better that to use them when they would pose a danger to the other users.

IAmCosmo

We have that problem here. Signs are clearly posted all along the path that pedestrians have the right of way. I ride the path a lot, but never at more than 10 mph or so. And I only ride it to get from place to place. If I want to go fast, I get out on the road.

We do have some of the people that get out there and hammer up and down it though. There is one pair of women who get out there on their aero bars and ride side-by-side up and down the 5-mile trail over and over again, as fast as they can. We've all yelled at them, but to no avail. I got an e-mail from our local bike club that some bicycle cops were going to start riding the path (some under cover) in an effort to start slowing people down. I hope it happens.

We had an elderly woman die a year or two back when a cyclist collided with her at over 20mph on the path.

Mr. Beanz

Not all MUP's are the same. At times we can ride 10 miles without seeeing another rider (lady in pic is with us). But there are short popular family sections where we slow to 2 mph if that is what it takes to avoid disaster.

This is one reason why I hate stupid driver threads, there are plenty of stupid cyclist too, on MUP"s and on the road, I've ridden with plenty. Not to mention, I've seen a Lance wannabe slam on his brakes at 20 mph while avoiding a 2 yo baby. He stopped and screamed a the top of his lungs at the child. I was too far in disbelief to react before he split seconds later. I should have shouted at him but we were in awe at his actions, dumsheot!

There are stupid drivers, stupid cyclists, stupid walkers, stupid dog owners, stupid people. Bottom line!

If we were banned from this MUP, who would be on it? Might as well tear it down for spare parts.

dehoff

The only thing worse than the Cat 6ers on a MUP are the rollerblading equivalent.

I try to avoid the MUP's unless I'm hauling the kids in the trailer or there's at least a foot of snow on the ground.

snowman40

I think people who are walking should be banned from Bike Paths.

Just think of it...no dogs on 20 feet of extending leashes, no oblivious dog walker, no strollers, no salmon strollers, no joggers, no stationary people blocking the path. No kids running or playing on the path. It is a bike path, get rid of the non-bikers and it should get better.
/sarc

magohn

Thanks to all who participated in the thread. I always find it interesting in discovering the different perspectives and arguments on both sides.

I do stand by initial opinion of stopping bike access to MUPs if we cant regulate ourselves. Im a Dad and the thought my child being hit by one of these paceliners makes me extra sensitive I guess. As Mr Beanz pointed out, it is ironic that we complain about our treatment from vehicles when in fact we are doing similar to others.

If anything comes from the thread, it would be awesome to think that one or two of us is a little more considerate to our fellow travelers as we travel the MUPs of our great country.

sinclac

Here in Sacramento it is a Bike path, and the signs clearly state (Walkers and joggers on the shoulders of the bike path)

CraigB

For the record, I have no problem with parents letting their kids learn on the trail. My issue was with the mother who did nothing, even verbally, when her scootering daughter crossed the centerline and headed right for me.

chipcom 

perhaps the kid was a terrorist in training? "Someday, I'll let you detonate, dear, but for now, just practice your aim."

chefisaac

Thats the good thing about where the majority of us live, there are MANY places for us to cycle. Personally, I dislike MUPs because of the runners with ear plugs (main reason I got an air horn for my commuter bike). I think staying off the paths builds more confidence in riding in streets. Just my opinion.

Myosmith

Instead of a ban on cyclists, how about encouraging your city council to provide an officer on bicycle during peak times to enforce the existing speed limit of 15 mph and to discourage unsafe practices. Pace lines in full team kit on a MUP, Wow?!?!? Gear up boyz, we goin' to the Tastee Freeze. Some of the novice group rides I've been on around here have used MUPs as part of their routes, but at reasonable speeds and not in a pace line. The more advanced groups might use a MUP to get to or from their training route, but keep the training efforts and pace lines on the open road.

Stealthammer

To quote Squirtdad, "Kids, dogs, groups of people walking side by side taking both lanes", and I will add recreational bicyclists, and roller bladers, and kids on Razor scooters....

I am very familiar with many of the MUPs that you ride (e.g., SART, SGRT, etc.) and I agree that many of those trail are isolated, and thet they are primarily used by cyclist and rarely used by either non-cycling or cycling casual or "recreational" users. But these are very rare around much of the country.

Far more common are MUPs that resemble the bike trail that runs from Santa Monica to Redondo Beach where you are likely to encounter at least one kid, one dog, one walker, one skater, and one recreational cyclist in the first three feet of the trail. They are very often quite crowded, and crowded with people who have MP3 players blasting in their ears, or who are holding conversations with other users, or are just daydreaming, and all of these users have a right to use the trail.

I submit that if you are on an isolated MUP with few "recreational users", feel free to riding as you please and have a great time. But if you are on a MUP that is crowded with other "recreational users", that you either comply with the existing pace of the crowd or that you get the hell off of the MUP.

If we don't act responsibly as cyclists we deserve to lose our access to MUPs where we present a danger to other recreational and casual users.


EDIT: On the streets almost anywhere in America, there is a "Basic Speed Law" in effect that states that regardless of the posted speed limit, a driver may only drive at a speed that is safe for the conditions. I suggest that MUPs begin to have posted speed limit signs that indicate the same sentiment, and on a crowded MUP that is the speed that it is being used by other users.

chefisaac

Ride somewhere else.... problem solved.

If I do not like driving a certain street or area, I avoid it. Just me.

billyymc

Our local MUP in Vestal, NY, is a whopping 2.5 miles long. The only reason to ride it on a warm day is to check out the local...uhh...scenery. And why go fast for that?

Seriously though...this tiny little trail attracts so many users - dog walkers, familys, bladers, rec riders, runners, etc. that to even consider riding hard on it at any time other than winter is crazy. When my kids were little we woudl take them there to ride their bikes, and my wfie and I would skate. I taught them early how to be responsible, share the trail, stay to the right - and most imporantly, always always always look over your shoulder before moving acrossed the trail. I've seen kids and adults be walking down the trail and just suddenly cut acrossed it without ever even looking.

I think a busy MUP is like a busy intermediate ski slope on a weekend day. Skier code says the downhill skier has the right of way and the uphill skier is responsible to ski in a manner by which they can avoid the downhill skier. However, a smart downhill skier can do a lot of things to minimize their chance of getting hit too - avoid weird changes in direction, if you have to stop do so where you can be seen from above, don't sit down (snowboarders), etc.

But like Beanz said...there are stupid people everywhere. Lots of them. They aren't confined to one socioeconomic demographic either. They are everywhere, and they are raising stupid offspring.

himespau 

everywhere you go there are going to be stupid people. Pacelines on an mup don't make sense because if you're going the speed limit you're going too slow to get any benefit of drafting. Sometimes I go fast on the MUP on my commute, but only in regions when the only other people in sight are other bike commuters like myself and there's limited access (one stretch has a fence on one side followed by a river and the other side has a fence and limited access highway. If no one's around and I'm in a rush to get home I'll up the tempo there. Other stretches, MUP's can be nicer than the roads (and have better scenery - and not just sunbathers) so if I'm out for a leisurely ride, I'll take them where they're better and less populated and roads when they're superior. It's all about knowing what's best for the situation. I also like them for exploring new areas because you can't get too lost (though sometimes getting lost can be fun and a good way to explore an area - in new places I've taken a map with me, planning not to use it unless I absolutely had to and set out to get myself lost with the hopes of getting home again in 20 or so miles). But then I'm not a racer so I just ride however I'm feeling when I'm feeling it.

Black wallnut 

The world is full of rude people. I find folks all the time in grocery stores that block the isles with no thought for their fellow shoppers. Hope y'all find solutions to the problem of a few acting dangerously on MUP's. The solution is not to move to the country, why it is getting too crowded already. I mean gosh I was passed by one other cyclist on Sunday. I ride on rural roads and highways mostly, although my commute is right through a regional university with a fair amount of traffic for the 12 blocks or so. It is remarkable how much room motorists going 70 mph give me when they pass me. I've also been passed by fellow cyclists when the first moment I am aware of their presence is when they pull up beside me while making a pass, talk about getting startled. I take my 6 yo for a ride on the county residential roads near my home, probabaly safer than taking him into the city (town).

What bothers me about this thread is some folks first reaction is we must restrict the rights of the many because of the carelessness of the few. REALLY! Might I propose that you first badger your city to hire bicycle cops to enforce the laws. I'll bet they might even be able to get a grant to mostly fund it if they have a competent grant writer on staff. Passing more laws while ignoring those already existing will just create more law breakers and history has shown that it really does little to encourage compliance.

magohn

Oh if it were that simple. Our local Police force has been reduced to nothing due to budget cuts and the recession. Our neighbors house was burglarized and I actually witnessed the thief pushing a cart of stolen goods (I didnt know it at the time) up the main road. When I found out our neighbor had been robbed, I informed the Police, reported who did it and where they lived. I aslo told them I would go to court and testify. The case was dropped due to "lack of funding".

So no, I dont have hopes of the city providing a "cycle cop" to sit on the MUP all day and ticket pacelines. I also dont live in "the middle of nowhere". I am located 6 miles from downtown Redmond, WA - Bill Gates country. If we cant afford it, who can?

mprelaw

This is pretty much it, in a nutshell. I often see two parents riding ahead of their kids, paying no attention to what's going on behind them. Sometimes the 6 year old on training wheels is under the "supervision" of the 10 year old, while mommy and daddy are back at the car a mile away.

Biggziff

Welcome to parenting in 2012

indyfabz

If thinking what I would like to do to those folks were criminalized, I would be behind bars for life.

Black wallnut 

Not enough police to enforce the laws on the books now and yet you wish for more laws to restrict your behaviour, and the behaviour of your fellow citizens. If your city cut necessary jobs due to funding issues perhaps it is time to toss the rascals out. Was it the LEA that dropped the case or the County or district prosecutor's office that dropped the ball? I understand your frustration first hand. Years ago as a Reserve Police Officer I was involved in a high speed chase of a perp that was commiting felony eluding. He fleed from a traffic stop after I had already ID'd him. He was also witnessed by a County Deputy. Within a week of this he was arrested for other charges and was sitting in the county jail at the time my report was kicked up to the prosecutor's office. The prosecutor did nothing with this. 8 or so months later, after I had moved away I was contacted to make a court appearance, which was later cancelled due to a plea agreement. More laws is not the answer, speed bumps and z gates would be better.

yellowsirocco

Greenville, SC can afford it for their Swamp Rabbit Trail. I think they have two cops on bikes and one that rides a BMW motorcycle. I think it is more of a general public safety thing than specifically looking for racers. There is a 20mph speed limit so you can get some speed up. It is marketed as a place for both exercise and family activity so speed is not looked down upon.

It is pretty funny that Bill Gates country is broke, but a place in one of the last states for pretty much everything can afford bike path cops.

contango 

Yep, "share the path" works all ways. I truly despise cyclists who regard the MUP as their personal racetrack, just as I despise the people who regard the MUP as the place they can let their dog run totally unrestrained regardless of who else might be trying to get by, and the people who let their kids go side-to-side across the path even when they can see people trying to avoid the kids.

These days I very rarely use shared paths - I'd rather share the road with 30-40mph traffic than the path with 2mph pedestrians, dogs, ipod zombies etc.

Seattle Forrest

You keep calling the Burke Gilman Trail a "foot path." It's a mixed use trail. It specifically allows cyclists, although there are bypasses for fast cyclists, and a 15 mph speed limit in some place. But it's no more a foot path than a tire path. You seem to have an expectation that it should be a glorified sidewalk, and it isn't.

It's also a very pleasant ride. I think I've enjoyed myself every single time I've been on the trail.

There's some occasional stupidity, but the path is wide, and long, and it's spread out. Only the part from Gas Works to the U District (and up by Mathew's Beach) is truly crowded, the rest of the trail is nearly empty and wide open. I guess I'm a little surprised, because I've almost never heard anything so negative about the BGT before ... people (of all stripes) usually describe it more lovingly.

Here are some pictures of the trail.













Anyway, I'm sorry you had a bad time. Maybe you should try the trail again another day. It's a very nice, and well loved, place to ride a bike. Most people ride cooperatively there, and with the cherry blossoms this is a gorgeous time to enjoy the trail.

snowman40

Kids shouldn't be learning to ride on the MUPs, it is to dangerous for everyone. Kids shouldn't be taken on MUPs until they show their parents they can control their bike and ride somewhat predictably.