ChrisM2097

Let me know what you think of this combo for my 2007 Specialized Rockhopper Disc:

36 hole Sun Ringle MTX 33 rims
Shimano FH-M765L XT Rear Hub
Shimano HB-M756L XT Front Hub
DT Swiss Competition 2.0/1.8 spokes
DT Swiss Brass Spoke Nipples
Spoke Prep

I'm currently ~270lb. I want a wheelset that I can use confidently off-road.

I haven't yet built any wheels from all-new components, and have been itching to do so for quite a while. All my wheel builds have been of used components, or re-building a new, complete wheel that nearly completely came undone (many very loose spokes) and broke a spoke after only a couple hundred miles (WTB LaserDisc XC).

maidenfan

Parts are definately up to speed man. I was checking out the 29er version of those rims at the local LBS the other day - beefy!

sprince

Probably stepping in it here. It's a few extra grams, but I've never had a failure with plain old 2mm straight spokes. Some say the butted spokes are stronger, but I've had many failures with the 2.0/1.8's, breaking just before the bend at the hub end.

sstorkel

At the hub, a double-butted 2.0/1.8 spoke is 2mm in diameter... just like a straight-gauge 2mm spoke would be. I've always been told that the break you describe is a result of poor spoke tension or not stress-relieving the wheel properly. Dunno if that's true or not. If you think spokes are the problem, then the only real alternative is the triple-butted (2.34/1.8/2.0) DT Swiss Alpine 3 spoke. They're thicker near the hub which supposedly helps prevent breaks. They're also twice the price of double-butted spokes and three times the price of straight-gauge spokes. I built the wheels for my touring bike using DT Swiss Competition spokes and they've been holding up fine so far...

ChrisM2097

I've only ever broken 2 spokes, and both of them were broken at the threaded end of the spoke. In both cases, they were factory-stock wheels with only a couple hundred miles on them. One was on a 36-spoke Wal-Mart BSO. The other was on a 28-spoke WTB LaserDisc XC toward the end of a double metric century.

CliftonGK1

I've never busted a 14/15 db spoke, but for the cost vs. noticed benefits I just go with 14g straights.

FWIW, I have a 15g straight for my current commuter/brevet rear wheel. 32h Sun CR18 laced 3x to an IRO high flange hub. I've put at least 6000 miles on it and it's still going strong.

Doohickie

When I built my rear wheel I talked about this with my LBS. They recommended straight gage spokes for me since it was my first wheel build. They said sometimes an inexperienced building will put some twist into the thinner gage area without realizing it. As I built the wheel up I don't think that was likely but I followed their advice and the wheel came out fine. The guy at the LBS said that people building their first wheel tend to pay a lot of attention to spoke tension, and getting the tension right is a bigger impact than the double spokes would be.

Drew Eckhardt 

The cost is a few dollars a wheel until the hubs become "obsolete" (maybe you upgrade to the new 14-speed 140mm road bike standard with a non-drive side brake disc) or you can no longer purchase replacement rims with the same ERD. That could easily be 20 years for a non-retro grouch and a few bucks spread over those decades is effectively zero.

One benefit of double butted spokes is that they allow the rim to deflect more before the spokes go slack and it becomes laterally unsupported at which point it can shift and collapse as it springs back from an impact so your wheels can survive bigger hits without collapsing.

For that cost/benefit trade-off I'll take 2.0/1.5 spokes and deal with the windup (about a quarter turn rear drive side with proper lubrication at 110-130 kgf). I have one set (except rear drive side, where I superstitiously used 2.0/1.8 spokes) dating back to 1997 on its second front rim and third rear and wouldn't be too surprised to still be riding them when I wear out my next rear derailleur in another fifteen years.

Drew Eckhardt 

If you put a Sharpie dot on each spoke near the nipple it's impossible to twist the spokes without noticing.

A tape flag on a representative spoke in each group (rear drive-side, rear non-drive side, front - I like to use the spoke or two following the valve stem hole) will also show you how much windup you are getting as the wheel comes up to tension so you can compensate although variations can exist if you have a few damaged or corroded nipples.

ChrisM2097

Thanks for the tips. This certainly isn't my first wheel build - I've re-built several wheels (completely taken apart, cleaned, inspected, re-assembled). This will be my first using all new parts.

What I typically do is, when I'm completing the final tensioning & fine-tuning the lateral true, is turn the nipple 1/2 turn clockwise (tighten) and 1/4 turn counter-clockwise (loosen) so as to keep the spoke from staying twisted. I also use Spoke Prep, which acts as a lubricant to help keep the spokes from twisting.

CliftonGK1

I've read the theory, looked over the math, seen how it supposedly works, and compared that with my experience; that's the information I'm working with. All the wheelbuilding books give the same information, so does Sheldon's archive. However, solely from my experience, I've found no effective lifespan difference between 14g and 14/15 db wheels of the same construction, used over the same conditions. I've never managed on either one to crack a rim, rip out an eyelet, bust a spoke, or other such damage.
The cost is the defining factor for me. $45 for a box of 100 DT Champion 2.0, but a box of Competition 14/15g is about $20 more everyplace I've found.

ChrisM2097

If you can point me to where you can find spokes that cheap, I'd really appreciate it. I was leaning toward black double-butted spokes - but the ones I was looking at are $95 for 72 spokes. The cheapest I can find DT Champion 2.0 straight-gauge silver spokes is $65.

ChrisM2097

Now I'm questioning whether I should buy the components, or just buy this wheelset and save myself over $100:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A2TE9IQP68MWQU

It's the same hubs, same spokes, different rim - Mavic XC717 (better rating on MTBR.com)

It's 32 spoke, which I'm perfectly OK with, and with the price difference, it'd basically be like getting both hubs for free.

Of course, if I buy the wheelset, it's coming apart as soon as I get it - since, due to past experiences, I'll only really trust it if I build it myself, or know for certain that a skilled wheel builder assembled it.

Bill Kapaun

That would be an option.
Buy a tension meter with the money you save and you can make the wheel even better.

Drew Eckhardt 

Most cyclists don't fold wheels and are dealing with other factors like how long they last.

The fatigue life of quality spokes in properly built wheels is effectively indefinite and not too relevant.

Whether you get a large fraction of hundreds of thousands of miles or a small multiple of hundreds of thousands of miles you're still looking at hundreds of thousands of miles which is a lifetime for most of us.

The significant issue is how much force it takes to collapse the wheel from an impact.

$12.80 for a 32/32 build or $14.40 for 36/36 divided by decades is not an interesting number compared against the costs (monetary and otherwise - broken bones with complications and the multiple surgeries to deal with them have a significant impact on your life) of an accident that's more likely to an unknown degree with a weaker wheel.

ChrisM2097

I would...but I already have a Park Spoke Tension Meter.

What I really need is the Park professional wheel truing stand. I've been using a cheapy...it works, but it's certainly not the best designed / quality one out there.