Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) Looking to lose that spare tire? Ideal weight 200+? Frustrated being a large cyclist in a sport geared for the ultra-light? Learn about the bikes and parts that can take the abuse of a heavier cyclist, how to keep your body going while losing the weight, and get support from others who've been successful.

velocity A23 Rim or Deep V

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Old 08-23-12, 10:47 AM
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JOHN J
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velocity A23 Rim or Deep V

good afternoon everyone, I hope all is well!!

thanks for the help on my rim drilling question.

I do believe im going to go 36/32 .

Now what rim? I was all set on the deep V and had a question on them so I called velocity.

Velocity as usual was great to deal with! Anyway the rep I talked to at velocity Thought that the A23 would offer a nicer ride than the Deep V for my application!, the A23 bead is wider, not as tall and its a bit lighter. he said no problem at 250lb with 32 or 36 drilling.

I was all set on the Deep V until the gent at velocity advised the A23 instead

He said the deep V will be a stiffer ride (DESIGNED FOR a STIFFER RIDE) and wont corner as nicely also a tad heavier (so am I) the Deep V is the Bombproof choice,

though with normal road riding (not jumping curbs, or loaded commuting)the A23 should have no issues in the durability dept.

your thoughts please.

many thanks

"John"
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Old 08-23-12, 11:05 AM
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Mr. Beanz
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I can see the other rim being a softer ride since it accepts a wider tire but the will accept a 28 (on my tandem) and depending on what bike you ride, you might not be able to ride wider tires anyway. My roadies rub the inside of my Lemond and Madone frames with 25's and Deep V (the narrower rim). Unless I was riding a tour or cross bike, I wouldn't want a wider rim.

As far as cornering? I love my Deep V's on fast mountain descents and switchbacks. I have a Mavic CXP33 on the ront of my roadie now. 32 spoke but I have more confidence in a 28 hole Deep V. I plan to change the wheel soon. It just doesn't feel as stable as my V's.

As far as stiffness, I don't get it with the Clyde complaints. Gina rides one, just did a century with no complaints and she loves the responsive stiffness of the wheel. When I first placed it on her bike, she said, "wow, this thing makes the other wheel feel wimpy". She says she feels the difference in strength and responsiveness. She also says the wheel feels fast.

-------
A little experience I had with another Clyde. We were riding our flat smooth trail to the coast. He knows I am a stronger ride but he asked me to go all out for the last ten miles just to see how far behind he would be. Cool, I left him behind. He completed the ten miles about 15 minutes after I got there, it does get windy.

When he arrived he asked about the time so I told him. Then he said "well my Deep V's are heavy". "Umm OK, Im riding Deep V's too" I said.

So then he said, "well I just had these wheels built and the Ultegra hubs are slow rolling hubs" (2010 new hubs).......So I showed him my hubs and said, "Dude, I'm riding 1997 old Ultegra 600 hubs". SO then he went on to say that since he removed his aerobars, he's lost 4 mph on his over all "average".

I think lots of this "too heavy" & "too stiff" for a Clyde stuff is all in the head. This dude was like 280 lbs.
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Old 08-23-12, 11:14 AM
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I asked Peter White about building a set of 36 hole A23 wheels and he said the A23 would be too light for my 240 lbs. I was planning on putting them on a cyclocross bike which might make a difference. I also wanted durability over light weight. With that said I still don't think the A23's would have been a bad choice as I don't expect wheels to be totally maintence free.
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Old 08-23-12, 11:26 AM
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Or go with the fusion, Close to the V (25mm vs 30 tall) but lighter and only 50 grams more than the A23
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Old 08-23-12, 11:32 AM
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I just had a shop tell me the same thing about a stiffer ride (which sounded fine to me, but their feeling was that Deep Vs were only race-day wheels -- which would likely be never for me). Guess I'll find out when the wheels arrive (went with the A23).
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Old 08-23-12, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
A little experience I had with another Clyde. We were riding our flat smooth trail to the coast. He knows I am a stronger ride but he asked me to go all out for the last ten miles just to see how far behind he would be. Cool, I left him behind. He completed the ten miles about 15 minutes after I got there, it does get windy.

When he arrived he asked about the time so I told him. Then he said "well my Deep V's are heavy". "Umm OK, Im riding Deep V's too" I said.

So then he said, "well I just had these wheels built and the Ultegra hubs are slow rolling hubs" (2010 new hubs).......So I showed him my hubs and said, "Dude, I'm riding 1997 old Ultegra 600 hubs". SO then he went on to say that since he removed his aerobars, he's lost 4 mph on his over all "average"..
Holy crap, he must live on the 41. I learned my lesson a LONG time ago about what makes a bike fast and you can't buy it in a store.

As for the wider rims... we're talking 2mm on either side here, which is barely noticeable (visually). 19mm vs 23mm. Supposedly the extra width gives the tire a nicer profile and because of the extra air volume in the tire you can run the tire at lower pressures, which usually results in a more comfortable ride. Is it enough to really notice? Hard to say, but it's the current cycling fad. I've seen a couple posts on the road forum talking about 23mm rims but nothing particularly conclusive.

With a rim as stiff and sturdy as a Deep V, 36 spokes are probably overkill anyway. I have an Easton rear (25mm profile) with 28 spokes and I've hit stuff hard with that thing... caused impact flats from the hit... it's still as true as the day I bought it 3k miles ago and it's a "light" wheel that's totally unsuited for a Clyde in the mind of somebody like Peter White.

DT Swiss RR 585 rims are also an excellent choice if you want something fancier than a Deep V. Same profile & roughly the same weight but it's Swiss. oooh.
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Old 08-23-12, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by antimonysarah View Post
I just had a shop tell me the same thing about a stiffer ride (which sounded fine to me, but their feeling was that Deep Vs were only race-day wheels -- which would likely be never for me). Guess I'll find out when the wheels arrive (went with the A23).
Really, race day wheels only? I guess that's why I dont have much faith in shop wheel people. I have gotten 20,000+ miles out of a Deep V. Eveyday riding, training, roads, trails, centuries, crit training rides with no problems at all. One minor true at 13,000 miles. These aren't race day only wheels.


Straight from the Velocity website:

This rim is the jack-of-all-trades. The deep section creates strength, aerodynamics and durability. Use it for training, racing, commuting, touring, track bikes or anything else you can think of. If you want one rim that can do it all, this is the one.

Sarah? I can see maybe the figured a female might want a softer ride (without trying to seem male chauvinist)
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Old 08-23-12, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
I learned my lesson a LONG time ago about what makes a bike fast and you can't buy it in a store.
Yeah, when I lose 40 lbs and train,my wheels seem to lose like 1000 grams. Figure that one out.




Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
DT Swiss RR 585 rims are also an excellent choice if you want something fancier than a Deep V. Same profile & roughly the same weight but it's Swiss. oooh.
Yeah, choice of one color, big ugly red sticker and 70% more in price...fancy!

$61 vs $101 on prowheelbuilder
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Old 08-23-12, 11:54 AM
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Peter is a Trip!!

I love the Gals in the shop , He can be a bit $%#[email protected]@ esp if there are problems.

I'm thinking ill stay with the Deep V. ill wait for more opinions though.

"John"
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Old 08-23-12, 01:22 PM
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When I had my rear wheel built last spring deep v's were not available. I went with the Fusion which is a bit shallower. Where I live we have frequent strong gusty winds. I am glad that I did not go deep v. I can feel the side winds now. Based on what others in my group riders are saying that have real deep rims deeper catches more cross wind.
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Old 08-23-12, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Black wallnut View Post
I am glad that I did not go deep v. I can feel the side winds now.
You think you could feel a .196 of an inch difference in rim profile?.....in a group? Wow!

It's windy over here all the time and I have no problems.
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Old 08-23-12, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
It's windy over here all the time and I have no problems.
Your wheels are, um, firmly planted on the ground.

Sorry, couldn't resist. I guess that applies to all of us here anyway. I always figured 50mm was where the wind became a noticeable handling factor but... I don't know.
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Old 08-23-12, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
Your wheels are, um, firmly planted on the ground.

Sorry, couldn't resist. I guess that applies to all of us here anyway. I always figured 50mm was where the wind became a noticeable handling factor but... I don't know.
Why I oughtta!

I can see the 50mm but with the Deep V's we ride in the 45 mph winds for kicks. But at this wind speed, the wind blowing against my shoulder is a bigger factor.
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Old 08-23-12, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
Sarah? I can see maybe the figured a female might want a softer ride (without trying to seem male chauvinist)
I doubt it with this particular shop, since I've gotten a lot of that in shops and can usually recognize it. Mid-30s overweight woman looking for actual roadie gear? Haha. (Especially since I'm fairly out of shape right now -- injuries and some personal stuff had me biking only short errands and not riding for fun for several years; I'm building up a new road joyride/fairweather commuter bike to celebrate a triumphant return to recreational riding. I am cool with the fact that I'm buying stuff way nicer than my current fitness level.) Perhaps it's just skinny folks inexperience with actually being on a bike at our weights -- they might well be annoyingly stiff for someone who weighs a lot less. Or the fact that I'm building it up aimed at longer-distance riding.

But if I have any trouble with the A23s I'm trying the Deep V's next.
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Old 08-23-12, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jethro56 View Post
I asked Peter White about building a set of 36 hole A23 wheels and he said the A23 would be too light for my 240 lbs. I was planning on putting them on a cyclocross bike which might make a difference. I also wanted durability over light weight. With that said I still don't think the A23's would have been a bad choice as I don't expect wheels to be totally maintence free.

Peter white would say that solid steel rims 2 inches thick are too light for a Clyde. Just my opinion.

I say get the 23. I have a set of 23 rims on 32 spoke, and they have been fine...I was heavier than 240 when I got them.
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Old 08-23-12, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by antimonysarah View Post
I'm building up a new road joyride/fairweather commuter bike
If it's a commuter, then I can see why they chose the A23.

Originally Posted by antimonysarah View Post
Or the fact that I'm building it up aimed at longer-distance riding.
Gina will be 50 in a month or so and we just did a century this past Sunday on Deep V's. If you're talking double centuries then I can see A23's but not sure why Deep V's wouldn't work. We're overweight as well.

Originally Posted by antimonysarah View Post
But if I have any trouble with the A23s I'm trying the Deep V's next.
Sounds like a good wheel from the reviews etc, no problem there. I just can't figure out why they woud say "race day" wheels.
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Old 08-23-12, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JOHN J View Post
though with normal road riding (not jumping curbs, or loaded commuting)the A23 should have no issues in the durability dept.

your thoughts please.
I'd pick the Velocity Synergy OC over the A23. The difference in rim depth isn't going to make much difference, but the off-center drilling will create more even spoke tension between the drive and non-drive sides of the wheel. Plus, the A23 is a pretty light-weight rim. About the same weight as the Aerohead, which is one of the lightest aluminum rims on the market...
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Old 08-23-12, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by vesteroid View Post
Peter white would say that solid steel rims 2 inches thick are too light for a Clyde. Just my opinion....
Peter White built up a set of 24 spoke Zipp 404's with a schmidt dyno hub for a larger friend of mine without a comment. Just don't ask his opinion when you order your wheels.
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Old 08-23-12, 03:40 PM
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If spokes and lacing are identical, the biggest difference you would notice between the A23 and Deep V would most likely be cornering ability. Ride comfort might be a secondary effect if you use a fairly high tpi non-shielded tire.

If you're using a 23mm tire, the A23 bead to sidewall transition is designed to mimic the feel of a tubular tire. Since you have a wider sidewall profile, you can inflate to a lower psi because you're effectively increasing the volume of the tire. You're less likely to pinch flat, the lower pressure means that your tire is more available to soak up road chatter on crappy surfaces, and you're getting better grip when cornering.
Similarly, you can run a wider tire on a 23 - 25mm rim and use lower pressure with less worry about rolling the bead in corners (in addition to the above benefits); which is why they're popular with the cyclocross crowd... 32 - 35mm tires, sub 40psi pressures, tight corners, bumpy terrain.
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Old 08-23-12, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
You think you could feel a .196 of an inch difference in rim profile?.....in a group? Wow!

It's windy over here all the time and I have no problems.
Well now that you ask, yes I have felt the difference. .2" x the inside circumfrence of the rim = a bunch. Our group rides are small, usually single file and our wind is generally 15-25 mph with gusts 35 mph. right now it is 27 mph sustained with the highest gust of 43 mph. I don't know how that compares to So Cal but it does not matter. I changed wheels to a very slightly deeper profile and I noticed. Side winds in a single file group do effect each rider.
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Old 08-23-12, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Black wallnut View Post
I changed wheels to a very slightly deeper profile and I noticed.
Like I said , Wow!
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Old 08-23-12, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Black wallnut View Post
Well now that you ask, yes I have felt the difference. .2" x the inside circumfrence of the rim = a bunch. Our group rides are small, usually single file and our wind is generally 15-25 mph with gusts 35 mph. right now it is 27 mph sustained with the highest gust of 43 mph. I don't know how that compares to So Cal but it does not matter. I changed wheels to a very slightly deeper profile and I noticed. Side winds in a single file group do effect each rider.
I'm impressed. I know you don't know me, the internet being the internet and all, but I used to roadrace motorcycles and I still race my bicycles and have a very good feeling for what the bike is doing under me. I have a hard time telling the difference in that small of a wheel rim depth. I can certainly tell the difference between my low profile Mavic OPs and My Zipp 404s (18 mm to 58 mm) but between my Mavic CXP33s and Topilino AX 3.0's (23 mm to 30mm, .28 inches for the non metricly inclined ) not so much. I'm not going to doubt what you think you are feeling because there is a lot more to the physics than just rim depth. Rim profile, spoke profile tire size/profile and the way the wheel was built all go into play as do the dynamics of the group you are riding in. I am impressed though.

P.S. I've ridden all over N. America and most of Europe and wind is pretty much wind. It's just dirtier in some places.

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Old 08-23-12, 06:49 PM
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How's this for riding in a crosswind? You know it's a good wind when you can see and touch it.
BTW, I had Zipp 404s on the bike in that pic and was still able to ride in a pretty straight line.

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Old 08-23-12, 06:53 PM
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I built up a set of wheels on A 23 rims. I'm running 28 tires on them and the wide rims really gives a comfortable ride. I'm 250 lbs and run with 110psi rear and 100 psi front. I use them on my Roubaix for long rides.
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Old 08-23-12, 07:53 PM
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I have a 36 hole velocity aerohead w/ zero issues in a few thousand miles.. The aerohead was very similar in specs to the a23 rim. I had mine built by local guy who I really trust and every wheel he has built for me has worked out great.

If you are unsure that the a23 will work for you - go with the Fusion or deep v for a bombproof wheel.
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